Hahahahaha Johnny Damon

[rocket]

"...You want to put people in the seats and I'm the kind of guy who can do that. I'm looking for five plus. I'm looking for a lot. For what I bring to the table night in and night in. We know how good Manny and David are, but I also help them look real good. They make me look real good."

-- Johnny Damon immediately after a season-ending devastating loss

 

I'm starting to think Boston won't want Damon back.

 

http://www.bostondirtdogs.com/

[MeatampPotatoesMan]

Damon is overrated to begin with. I'm glad he still wants 5 years. No way Hendry gives it to him. Thank God.

 

 

Fielding isn't the most important aspect of baseball, but his rainbows from CF pain me.

[shnsajax]

It also gives a link to Manny wanting to go to the White Sox. I don't see the Red Sox ever giving him to another AL team. He's more than welcome in the other team in Chicago though.

[Coach C]

My, how the mighty have fallen. Damon used to be pretty good while playing for the Royals, but ever since he left Kansas City, well... you know the story.

[cubbieinexile]

He turned into superstar?

[UMFan83]

He turned into superstar?

 

His OPS since leaving KC:

 

.687

.799

.750

.857

.805

 

Not that he was much better in KC, but his last 2 years OPS:

 

.877

.856

 

His SB have declined since leaving KC from 46 to 18

 

His BA and OBP are above average, but not even close to worth what he will surely ask in FA with Boras as his agent.

[Soul]

I wonder how long Damon & Boras rehearsed that performance before Damon delivered it to the media?

 

It's another Boras power play. We've got cash, but it has to be spent wisely, not blown on one guy who is then heaped with the pressure of an entire franchise to turn it around.

[imb]

lololol is there anyone in the world that would pay money just to see Johnny Damon? MAYBE Bill Simmons.

[TheDude]

This place gives me daily surprises. That's why I love it.

 

I'm beginning to think there isn't a single player alive good enough for this team, at least according to some fans.

[XZero771679666304]

This place gives me daily surprises. That's why I love it.

 

I'm beginning to think there isn't a single player alive good enough for this team, at least according to some fans.

 

 

Would you pay 10 mil+ for 5 years to a 32 year old player who is years removed from his best numbers? If you project his decline over the length of a 5 year contract, the price/production ratio gets pretty ugly.

 

Sure Damon is very good as a leadoff hitter, and would be nice to have in CF, but his numbers are in fact on the decline, and even at his best he wasn't worth 10 million plus a season.

[TheDude]

Sure Damon is very good as a leadoff hitter, and would be nice to have in CF, but his numbers are in fact on the decline, and even at his best he wasn't worth 10 million plus a season.

Please explain how he is "years removed" from his best.

 

All of the following 2005 stats were above career averages: BA, OBP, SLG, OPS. 197 hits ranks as his 2nd best year for hits. Basically, in 2005, his HR and 3B were down, and that is the full extent of your commentary.

 

So, he clearly isn't in a sharp decline as you note. Now, compared to all other CF in MLB, Damon ranks way up there:

 

#1 - BA, Hits,

Top 5 - 2B, OBP

 

His power numbers won't compare against other CF that are middle-of-the-order sluggers like Jones, Griffey Jr., and Edmonds. But against other lead-off hitters, they are still stellar.

 

Quite simply, if he hits 5+ more HR this year, and a couple more triples, he comes close to a career year, or at least his 2nd best year.

 

Would you pay 10 mil+ for 5 years to a 32 year old player who is years removed from his best numbers? If you project his decline over the length of a 5 year contract, the price/production ratio gets pretty ugly.

Yes I pay that amount for that many years. The market doesn't have any better and Damon keeps himself in pristine condition. He should be able to play as long as someone like Lofton, and still produce.

[XZero771679666304]

Sure Damon is very good as a leadoff hitter, and would be nice to have in CF, but his numbers are in fact on the decline, and even at his best he wasn't worth 10 million plus a season.

Please explain how he is "years removed" from his best.

 

All of the following 2005 stats were above career averages: BA, OBP, SLG, OPS. 197 hits ranks as his 2nd best year for hits. Basically, in 2005, his HR and 3B were down, and that is the full extent of your commentary.

 

So, he clearly isn't in a sharp decline as you note. Now, compared to all other CF in MLB, Damon ranks way up there:

 

#1 - BA, Hits,

Top 5 - 2B, OBP

 

His power numbers won't compare against other CF that are middle-of-the-order sluggers like Jones, Griffey Jr., and Edmonds. But against other lead-off hitters, they are still stellar.

 

Quite simply, if he hits 5+ more HR this year, and a couple more triples, he comes close to a career year, or at least his 2nd best year.

 

Would you pay 10 mil+ for 5 years to a 32 year old player who is years removed from his best numbers? If you project his decline over the length of a 5 year contract, the price/production ratio gets pretty ugly.

Yes I pay that amount for that many years. The market doesn't have any better and Damon keeps himself in pristine condition. He should be able to play as long as someone like Lofton, and still produce.

 

 

I didn't say he was in sharp decline. But, his best years were in KC, and he is years removed from them. His .304/.380/.857 last year were easily the best in the past 5 seasons, and he regressed a bit this season. When you look at his 2004 numbers in the context of his past 5 seasons, they look pretty anomalous. His hits were up in 2005, but his 53 BB were his fewest since 1997, and his 10 HR his second fewest in the last 8 years.

 

Even if he were to replicate his 2005 numbers for the next 5 seasons (which is unlikely), .316/.366/.805 with relatively low steal totals and average defense sure isn't worth 5/50, and that's the base of what he will want.

 

Again, Damon is a great leadoff guy, but not worth what he will be asking for at his age.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

2005

 

Damon at Fenway: .334/.391/.440/.832

Damon elsewhere: .298/.342/.438/.780

 

3 year splits('02-'04):

 

Damon at Fenway: .318/.388/.448/.836

Damon elsewhere: .278/.340/.433/.773

 

 

Gary Matthews Jr., who I believe is also a free agent at the same age, plays better defense than Damon and will command much much much less:

 

2005:

 

At Arlington: .219/.290/.380/.670

Elsewhere: .290/.350/.492/.841

 

2004:

 

At Arlington: .293/.364/.512/.876

Elsewhere: .261/.339/.420/.759

[YearofDaCubs]

Johnny should change his last name to Delusional.

[TheDude]

2005

 

Damon at Fenway: .334/.391/.440/.832

Damon elsewhere: .298/.342/.438/.780

 

3 year splits('02-'04):

 

Damon at Fenway: .318/.388/.448/.836

Damon elsewhere: .278/.340/.433/.773

I hate it when these home and away splits are posted because nobody ever includes standard variance in the post, so it is just stats in a vacuum.

 

The majority of ballplayers are better at home. Come up with the league variance, then show me that Damon (or anybody else in the argument) is that much worse than the league variance for these splits to have any meaning.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

2005

 

Damon at Fenway: .334/.391/.440/.832

Damon elsewhere: .298/.342/.438/.780

 

3 year splits('02-'04):

 

Damon at Fenway: .318/.388/.448/.836

Damon elsewhere: .278/.340/.433/.773

I hate it when these home and away splits are posted because nobody ever includes standard variance in the post, so it is just stats in a vacuum.

 

The majority of ballplayers are better at home. Come up with the league variance, then show me that Damon (or anybody else in the argument) is that much worse than the league variance for these splits to have any meaning.

 

I don't have the time to do a league variance, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it's less than 40 points in AVG and 50 in OBP.

 

EDIT: Here's Boston as a team.

 

2005

 

Home: .280/.360/.457/.817

Away: .281/.352/.450/.802

Difference: -.001/.008/.007/.015

Damon's Difference: .036/.049/.002/.051

 

2004

 

Home: .304/.378/.504/.883

Away: .260/.342/.441/.783

Difference: .044/.036/.063/.099

Damon's Difference: .050/.054/.004/.058

 

2003

 

Home: .316/.392/.527/.919

Away: .263/.328/.456/.783

Difference: .053/.064/.071/.135

Damon's Difference: .037/.044/.042/.086

 

2002

 

Home: .273/.344/.433/.777

Away: .280/.346/.454/.800

Difference: -.007/-.002/-.021/-.023

Damon's Difference. -.003/.018/-.032/.-.014

 

Three out of 4 years he benefits more from the park than his teammates, with this year being the most disturbingly bad. This doesn't even mention the fact that even with his home numbers, Damon isn't worth 40-50 million over 4-5 years, considering his production is still only a mid 800s OPS to go with weak defense at age 31.

[TheDude]

2005

 

Home: .280/.360/.457/.817

Away: .281/.352/.450/.802

Difference: -.001/.008/.007/.015

Damon's Difference: .036/.049/.002/.051

 

2004

 

Home: .304/.378/.504/.883

Away: .260/.342/.441/.783

Difference: .044/.036/.063/.099

Damon's Difference: .050/.054/.004/.058

 

2003

 

Home: .316/.392/.527/.919

Away: .263/.328/.456/.783

Difference: .053/.064/.071/.135

Damon's Difference: .037/.044/.042/.086

 

2002

 

Home: .273/.344/.433/.777

Away: .280/.346/.454/.800

Difference: -.007/-.002/-.021/-.023

Damon's Difference. -.003/.018/-.032/.-.014

 

Three out of 4 years he benefits more from the park than his teammates, with this year being the most disturbingly bad.

Fair enough on the splits.

 

This doesn't even mention the fact that even with his home numbers, Damon isn't worth 40-50 million over 4-5 years, considering his production is still only a mid 800s OPS to go with weak defense at age 31.

Right, and how many leadoff hitters have a mid-.800s OPS again? Oh yeah, about 3 a year in the 21st century.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

This doesn't even mention the fact that even with his home numbers, Damon isn't worth 40-50 million over 4-5 years, considering his production is still only a mid 800s OPS to go with weak defense at age 31.

Right, and how many leadoff hitters have a mid-.800s OPS again? Oh yeah, about 3 a year in the 21st century.

 

There isn't a scarcity of mid 800s OPS guys that make Damon worth 10 million. Whether they are leadoff men or not doesn't make Damon's production any more valuable.

[K-Town]

Right, and how many leadoff hitters have a mid-.800s OPS again? Oh yeah, about 3 a year in the 21st century.

 

Damon has only done that 4 times, and he'll be 32 years old next month, so it's not like he's a perennial .800 OPS guy.

[TheDude]

There isn't a scarcity of mid 800s OPS guys that make Damon worth 10 million. Whether they are leadoff men or not doesn't make Damon's production any more valuable.

:shock:

 

Sorry, but you couldn't be more wrong in my eyes. Getting plus-production (over the league average) out of a position or lineup slot is critical to having a successful team.

 

That is one half of the reasons Walker has so much perceived value to the team or as trade.

 

That is what makes Brian Roberts so insanely valuable. He produced .900+ OPS for a leadoff man and 2B. It's a crime Baltimore didn't win 90 games with kind of plus-production out of that position and slot.

 

With the Chicago Cubs, the 3-4 hitters are a known quality. Finding plus-production out of 1-2 slots is the only way to turn this team around. And it's worth paying for, or even overpaying IMO.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

There isn't a scarcity of mid 800s OPS guys that make Damon worth 10 million. Whether they are leadoff men or not doesn't make Damon's production any more valuable.

:shock:

 

Sorry, but you couldn't be more wrong in my eyes. Getting plus-production (over the league average) out of a position or lineup slot is critical to having a successful team.

 

That is one half of the reasons Walker has so much perceived value to the team or as trade.

 

That is what makes Brian Roberts so insanely valuable. He produced .900+ OPS for a leadoff man and 2B. It's a crime Baltimore didn't win 90 games with kind of plus-production out of that position and slot.

 

With the Chicago Cubs, the 3-4 hitters are a known quality. Finding plus-production out of 1-2 slots is the only way to turn this team around. And it's worth paying for, or even overpaying IMO.

 

Sure, it's good to get production better than average for a position, but Damon isn't that much better than the league average to justify that type of length or dollar amount. Brian Roberts was also one of the top hitters in the game in addition for his position. Damon is up there for his position, but relative to other positions he's middle of the road. Plus he'll be 32, plus he's poor defensively, plus he's got his splits working against him for future performance. There aren't a lot of players worth 8 figures in the current market, and Damon isn't one of them.

[goonys evil twin]

There isn't a scarcity of mid 800s OPS guys that make Damon worth 10 million. Whether they are leadoff men or not doesn't make Damon's production any more valuable.

:shock:

 

Sorry, but you couldn't be more wrong in my eyes. Getting plus-production (over the league average) out of a position or lineup slot is critical to having a successful team.

 

That is one half of the reasons Walker has so much perceived value to the team or as trade.

 

That is what makes Brian Roberts so insanely valuable. He produced .900+ OPS for a leadoff man and 2B. It's a crime Baltimore didn't win 90 games with kind of plus-production out of that position and slot.

 

With the Chicago Cubs, the 3-4 hitters are a known quality. Finding plus-production out of 1-2 slots is the only way to turn this team around. And it's worth paying for, or even overpaying IMO.

 

Walker - $2.5m, valuable.

Damon - $10m, overpriced.

 

It's not the slot that determines value, it's the position. Damon is a productive CF. He's not even close to a great one though. He's got Hollywood written all over him, and is not reliably consistent. I won't be pissed if he's a Cub, but like Furcal, I'd be pissed if he was the headliner this offseason.

[David]

There isn't a scarcity of mid 800s OPS guys that make Damon worth 10 million. Whether they are leadoff men or not doesn't make Damon's production any more valuable.

:shock:

 

Sorry, but you couldn't be more wrong in my eyes. Getting plus-production (over the league average) out of a position or lineup slot is critical to having a successful team.

 

That is one half of the reasons Walker has so much perceived value to the team or as trade.

 

That is what makes Brian Roberts so insanely valuable. He produced .900+ OPS for a leadoff man and 2B. It's a crime Baltimore didn't win 90 games with kind of plus-production out of that position and slot.

 

With the Chicago Cubs, the 3-4 hitters are a known quality. Finding plus-production out of 1-2 slots is the only way to turn this team around. And it's worth paying for, or even overpaying IMO.

 

I think CPatt's point was that you can stick any mid .800 OPS guy in the leadoff spot and still have that same plus production. Whether or not the guy has been used by his past managers as a leadoff man is irrelevant. And the fact is, there are tons of .800 OPS guys out there.

 

Any scarcity of mid-.800 OPS leadoff men is purely artificial... Plus production matters with defensive position, not lineup position.

[Cubzfan64]

I would pay Damon $10 mil/year if it was only for a year or two, but under the circumstances I'll be shocked if some idiot team out there doesn't lock him up for 4-5 years which imho would be a mistake for them.

 

Damon/Boras will find some way to cash in on his "status" as a baseball "rock star" quality guy who has had 2 very good years with the bat and has very much made a name for himself with many fans by his "idiot" comments, hairstyle and outlandish behavior.

 

I sincerely hope the Cubs pass on overpaying him to play for them - the Cubs organization has done a pretty poor job (again imho) over the years in buying low and selling high. If they were to sign Damon, it would be another case of buying high.

 

I also would be concerned that the last 2 years have seen him get pretty banged up. You know it affects his speed and I believe it affects his arm in CF which was never very good to start with. Damon is a classic case of "take advantage of what you can get when you've had 2 exceptional seasons." I don't blame him for aiming for as high as he can get, I just don't want to be on the buying end of it.

[TheDude]

I would pay Damon $10 mil/year if it was only for a year or two, but under the circumstances I'll be shocked if some idiot team out there doesn't lock him up for 4-5 years which imho would be a mistake for them.

I don't think the length of the contract will be a detractor in Damon's case. While it was clearly a red flag to sign somebody like Thome to a 5+ year deal, Damon is different. He has proven to be durable and in peak physical condition.

 

He would end a 5 year contract at age 36, and for his skillset and conditioning, I wouldn't anticipate too much of a drop-off at that age.