The 2006 Thread, Current topic: Center Field

[Roast]

I'd just like to ask everyone to stay on subject. No worries, Left field is coming up. Probably next.

 

 

 

As far as my opinion on shortstop, I'm pretty much in line with Vance and Tim. If I can get him back for $5 Mil and approx 3 or so million in incentives, I'd be very happy. If Nomar can stay healthy, he's probably the best SS in the National League. And I'll take the best SS in the national league any day. Especially for five mil plus incentives.

 

And if it so happens that his leg explodes again then we didnt spend too much on him.

 

 

EDIT: also, please, keep hendry's name out of here. It doesnt matter what he thinks. This thread is totally independent of him. If you want to talk about what He should do or what he'll probably do, take it somewhere else. Thanks!

[biittner77]

Someone, anyone, reassure me that I'm being paranoid. But why have I had this recurring thought that Hendry would be interested in Jack Wilson?

 

Depending on what happens in the OF, taking a shot at Wilson isn't the worst thing that could happen providing he costs next to nothing.

[MPrior]

So here's what I've got so far:

 

We've agreed (more or less) that we pick up Walker's option (I'm getting to SS, hold on). What we haven't agreed on is whether we keep him or trade him.

 

Regardless, I agree with Vance, Tim, and Roast (and others). I think we sign Nomar if we can get him for 5 mill (or less) plus incentives. His injury this year was kind of a freak accident, but his value will go down because of it anyway, and we might be able to pick up easily the best offensive SS in the NL for very little money.

 

So: if we've kept Walker, we have Nomar and Walker at SS and 2B, with Cedeno backing them up, which I believe is a wonderful thing. If we traded Walker, we have Nomar and Cedeno (or, if we traded for a 2B, whoever we traded for; Marcus Giles has been mentioned), which would also be fine.

 

Under no circumstances should we pick up Furcal. He will cost far more than Nomar, and it bears mentioning that Nomar's career AVERAGE is only 30 points lower than Furcal's career OBP. Nomar exceeds Furcal in just about every offensive category, and if we can get him for much less money and a shorter time commitment, why wouldn't we? And even if we can't get Furcal, let Cedeno, who should put up numbers at least approaching Furcal's, play short, and spend our money somewhere where we need it more.

[goonys evil twin]

Someone, anyone, reassure me that I'm being paranoid. But why have I had this recurring thought that Hendry would be interested in Jack Wilson?

 

Depending on what happens in the OF, taking a shot at Wilson isn't the worst thing that could happen providing he costs next to nothing.

 

Under what possible circumstance would Jack Wilson, and his career line of .264/.304/.369 be even remotedly acceptable. Cedeno would clearly be the better option at that point.

 

The only way Wilson makes sense is if you could convince Philly to trade you Abreu and Burrell, and they insisted on getting Cedeno in return. He made $3.2m this year, and he'll make $2m+ easily next year, because in baseball, salaries rarely go down significantly unless you had a very down year and are getting old.

[nilodnayr]

So here's what I've got so far:

 

We've agreed (more or less) that we pick up Walker's option (I'm getting to SS, hold on). What we haven't agreed on is whether we keep him or trade him.

 

Regardless, I agree with Vance, Tim, and Roast (and others). I think we sign Nomar if we can get him for 5 mill (or less) plus incentives. His injury this year was kind of a freak accident, but his value will go down because of it anyway, and we might be able to pick up easily the best offensive SS in the NL for very little money.

 

So: if we've kept Walker, we have Nomar and Walker at SS and 2B, with Cedeno backing them up, which I believe is a wonderful thing. If we traded Walker, we have Nomar and Cedeno (or, if we traded for a 2B, whoever we traded for; Marcus Giles has been mentioned), which would also be fine.

 

Under no circumstances should we pick up Furcal. He will cost far more than Nomar, and it bears mentioning that Nomar's career AVERAGE is only 30 points lower than Furcal's career OBP. Nomar exceeds Furcal in just about every offensive category, and if we can get him for much less money and a shorter time commitment, why wouldn't we? And even if we can't get Furcal, let Cedeno, who should put up numbers at least approaching Furcal's, play short, and spend our money somewhere where we need it more.

 

Agree with all except if we traded walker (God I hope we dont) it would most likely be for bullpen help and wed solve 2b internally with cedeno.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

No one has talked about Jerry Hairston Jr. He's under the Cubs' control for 2006, do they keep him? Personally, I like JHJ as a "super-sub" for 2B and the OF. I certainly prefer him to Neifi for the bench. For those wanting backup in case Cedeno fails, I think JHJ is perfectly fine for that job. Between JHJ, Fontenot and Theriot, you'd have all the infield positions two-deep at a minimum, except for 1B. So whatever reserve OF you go with for the bench needs to be able to play some 1B on occasion, someone like Orlando Palmeiro or John Mabry as examples.

[nilodnayr]

No one has talked about Jerry Hairston Jr. He's under the Cubs' control for 2006, do they keep him? Personally, I like JHJ as a "super-sub" for 2B and the OF. I certainly prefer him to Neifi for the bench. For those wanting backup in case Cedeno fails, I think JHJ is perfectly fine for that job. Between JHJ, Fontenot and Theriot, you'd have all the infield positions two-deep at a minimum, except for 1B. So whatever reserve OF you go with for the bench needs to be able to play some 1B on occasion, someone like Orlando Palmeiro or John Mabry as examples.

 

I was waiting until CF to talk about him. I imagine with the multiple middle infield options and lack of CF options, others were as well.

[USSoccer]

No one has talked about Jerry Hairston Jr. He's under the Cubs' control for 2006, do they keep him? Personally, I like JHJ as a "super-sub" for 2B and the OF. I certainly prefer him to Neifi for the bench. For those wanting backup in case Cedeno fails, I think JHJ is perfectly fine for that job. Between JHJ, Fontenot and Theriot, you'd have all the infield positions two-deep at a minimum, except for 1B. So whatever reserve OF you go with for the bench needs to be able to play some 1B on occasion, someone like Orlando Palmeiro or John Mabry as examples.

 

I was waiting until CF to talk about him. I imagine with the multiple middle infield options and lack of CF options, others were as well.

 

I had mentioned him when we were talking about 2nd base. I advocated having a middle IF of Hairston/Nomar, with Cedeno playing the Neifi Perez role in 2006. We'd pick up Walker's option and deal him.

 

I like Hairston, and think he'd be a really, really nice player to have on our team b/c of his versatility.

[CubsWin]

No one has talked about Jerry Hairston Jr. He's under the Cubs' control for 2006, do they keep him? Personally, I like JHJ as a "super-sub" for 2B and the OF. I certainly prefer him to Neifi for the bench. For those wanting backup in case Cedeno fails, I think JHJ is perfectly fine for that job. Between JHJ, Fontenot and Theriot, you'd have all the infield positions two-deep at a minimum, except for 1B. So whatever reserve OF you go with for the bench needs to be able to play some 1B on occasion, someone like Orlando Palmeiro or John Mabry as examples.

You're right. I completely forgot to mention Hairston. For me, he is third on the depth chart at 2B and SS. We'll get to CF later. Ideally, he is my super-sub.

[Roast]

Allright, I think I'm gonna go ahead and throw up a poll just to narrow things down. The options are going to be the following:

 

- Resign nomar for 5 mil plus incentives up to 3 mil

- Resign Nomar for another amount of cash

- Attempt to sign Rafael Furcal

- Hand the job to Cedeno

- Do something else.

 

 

All of the options that get 10 or more votes will be brought back to the table for discussion. All those that do not, will be dropped. Also, if one vote gets 20 vote and no other option gets more than 10, then that option will win and we will move on to our next topic.

 

 

ALso, I would like to say that I'm planning to talk about bench players at a later time. But I have no problem you mentioning it now in the "I want nomar back only if cedeno gets one start a week as a backup" type of manor. If you have any other questions about how this thread will progress please first go back and read the first few posts, if that doesnt answer your question, ask me :) thankyou!

[reggiemiller rules]

Mine is an outside perspective, but i think that paying Furcal what he is gonna get is a mistake. I assume he will get a contract around what Renteria got last year. With that money I would sign Nomar to an incentive based contract and save yourself like 5 million dollars that can be used on an outfielder or bullpen help.

[mhuber92211]

The question on Furcal money is who will be bidding against us? Who needs a SS and of those teams, who can afford his asking price? It sounds like a situation where the Cubs can control a "buyers" market. With Nomar now having played more 3B this season then SS I think that it would be harder to resign him to an incentive laden deal then it would be getting Furcal to agree to Cabrera money (3yrs 18 mil). Nomar will likely have 3B suitors in LA, SD, ANA (Possibly depending on McPherson's hip) and several other locations. It wouldn't surprise me to see him get a 2 yr deal similar to Steve Finley's.

 

Therefore, the question that needs to be decided is if Cedeno or Furcal are the answers to SS. If Furcal signs a 3 yr deal, what do we do with Cedeno? Is it fair to think that Cedeno will be able to continue hitting like he has this season? He bounced around so much, he was never able to "settle in" on a team. His trade value won't be too high as many teams don't need a SS. If he is regulated to back up duty again, will this help him mature? We have already heard him say that he needs regular play to keep it going.

 

My vote is for Furcal and have Cedeno take over as the regular Iowa 2B. Have him get 400 AB there in a full season so he can fill Walker's shoes in 2007. I would rather have Fonetnot as the backup INF then Cedeno as that is what his ceiling is anyhow. Cedeno has the talent to be an everyday player, we should keep the concept of that there so he con contuie to acheive that ceiling.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

I'm not really a fan of resigning Nomar or signing Furcal. I wouldn't mind seeing a middle infield of Cedeno and Walker but I don't think that is going to happen. I know that the Devil Rays have been hesitant about playing Cantu in the past, do they still feel that way after the huge year he had this year? What about Julio Lugo? Does his future with the team depend on what they do with Upton? I wouldn't mind having either of those players start for the Cubs at SS/2B along with Cedeno (i'm assuming that Walker is going to be traded to someone).

 

edit: from Lugo's espn profile.

 

Sep. 23

News: The Devil Rays are not expected to try to trade Lugo away in the offseason, and may consider trying to sign him to a multi-year deal, the Tampa Tribune reports.

 

Spin: Lugo's contract includes a team option for 2006 at $4.9 million, or a $100,000 buyout. According to the report, the Rays likely will exercise the buyout, then tender him for arbitration with the possibility of simultaneously trying to negotiate a two- or three-year deal. Any move by the Rays to keep Lugo on their roster for 2006 would then likely lead to an organizational decision to move shortstop prospect B.J. Upton to another position, likely third base.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=4290

 

So much for that idea. :(

[illiniguy]

Our Team so far

 

Mgr: Dusty Baker

 

1B: Derrek Lee - 8 Mil

2B: Todd Walker - 2.5 Mil

SS:

3B: Aramis Ramirez - 10.5 Mil

LF:

CF:

RF:

C: Michael Barrett - 3 Mil

 

SP: Mark Prior - 2 Mil

SP: Kerry Wood - 11 Mil

SP: Greg Maddux - 9 Mil

SP:

SP:

 

Pen

 

 

 

Bench

C:Henry Blanco - 1.5 Mil

 

Salary So Far: $47.5 Million

Left To Spend: $57.5 Million

WHAT HAPPENED TO ZAMBRANO?!!!!!?!!!!!

[HoopsCubs]

The question on Furcal money is who will be bidding against us? Who needs a SS and of those teams, who can afford his asking price? It sounds like a situation where the Cubs can control a "buyers" market. With Nomar now having played more 3B this season then SS I think that it would be harder to resign him to an incentive laden deal then it would be getting Furcal to agree to Cabrera money (3yrs 18 mil). Nomar will likely have 3B suitors in LA, SD, ANA (Possibly depending on McPherson's hip) and several other locations. It wouldn't surprise me to see him get a 2 yr deal similar to Steve Finley's.

 

Therefore, the question that needs to be decided is if Cedeno or Furcal are the answers to SS. If Furcal signs a 3 yr deal, what do we do with Cedeno? Is it fair to think that Cedeno will be able to continue hitting like he has this season? He bounced around so much, he was never able to "settle in" on a team. His trade value won't be too high as many teams don't need a SS. If he is regulated to back up duty again, will this help him mature? We have already heard him say that he needs regular play to keep it going.

 

My vote is for Furcal and have Cedeno take over as the regular Iowa 2B. Have him get 400 AB there in a full season so he can fill Walker's shoes in 2007. I would rather have Fonetnot as the backup INF then Cedeno as that is what his ceiling is anyhow. Cedeno has the talent to be an everyday player, we should keep the concept of that there so he con contuie to acheive that ceiling.

 

What if Rafael Furcal turns out to be Jeff Blauser? :twisted:

Okay, all kidding aside, I think paying the guy $32M over 4 years is plain risky. I'd rather go with Nomar or Cedeno. I'm pretty convinced that Hendry will get Lofton this offseason, and we'll see a Lofton/Hairston platoon in CF until young Mr. Pie is ready.

Edited September 27, 2005 by HoopsCubs

[CuseCubFan69]

What if Rafael Furcal turns out to be Jeff Blauser?

 

I've heard of players aging over the off season but that is a bit of a reach Hoops.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

Our Team so far

 

Mgr: Dusty Baker

 

1B: Derrek Lee - 8 Mil

2B: Todd Walker - 2.5 Mil

SS:

3B: Aramis Ramirez - 10.5 Mil

LF:

CF:

RF:

C: Michael Barrett - 3 Mil

 

SP: Mark Prior - 2 Mil

SP: Kerry Wood - 11 Mil

SP: Greg Maddux - 9 Mil

SP:

SP:

 

Pen

 

 

 

Bench

C:Henry Blanco - 1.5 Mil

 

Salary So Far: $47.5 Million

Left To Spend: $57.5 Million

WHAT HAPPENED TO ZAMBRANO?!!!!!?!!!!!

He'll be penciled into right when we get there. :D

[illiniguy]

Our Team so far

 

Mgr: Dusty Baker

 

1B: Derrek Lee - 8 Mil

2B: Todd Walker - 2.5 Mil

SS:

3B: Aramis Ramirez - 10.5 Mil

LF:

CF:

RF:

C: Michael Barrett - 3 Mil

 

SP: Mark Prior - 2 Mil

SP: Kerry Wood - 11 Mil

SP: Greg Maddux - 9 Mil

SP:

SP:

 

Pen

 

 

 

Bench

C:Henry Blanco - 1.5 Mil

 

Salary So Far: $47.5 Million

Left To Spend: $57.5 Million

WHAT HAPPENED TO ZAMBRANO?!!!!!?!!!!!

He'll be penciled into right when we get there. :D

whew its about time we worked him into the lineup, better not put Murton in left with him pitching though as everygame it seems murton makes a mistake and Z glares at him inbetween hitters.

[Roast]

Our Team so far

 

Mgr: Dusty Baker

 

1B: Derrek Lee - 8 Mil

2B: Todd Walker - 2.5 Mil

SS:

3B: Aramis Ramirez - 10.5 Mil

LF:

CF:

RF:

C: Michael Barrett - 3 Mil

 

SP: Mark Prior - 2 Mil

SP: Kerry Wood - 11 Mil

SP: Greg Maddux - 9 Mil

SP:

SP:

 

Pen

 

 

 

Bench

C:Henry Blanco - 1.5 Mil

 

Salary So Far: $47.5 Million

Left To Spend: $57.5 Million

WHAT HAPPENED TO ZAMBRANO?!!!!!?!!!!!

 

He is not signed yet. Yes, he's under our control, however, an ammount has not been set as to how much he will be paid, at least i beleive that is the case, so I am waiting till we set a salary for him to put him on there.

[Roast]

Here's something I would like to toss out there.

 

If reports are true that Nomar wants to stay (I think that's pretty much an accepted fact now), then do you think he would accept an almost entirely incentive based contract?

 

Lets say something like:

 

3 million base

.5 Million for every 100 plate appearances

.5 Million All Star incentive

.5 Million for batting .300

-------------------------------

7 Million Total (assuming 600 plate appearances & achievement of allstar & .300)

 

And if he flops, then he gets his three million for sitting on the bench.

 

Or would he want something more along the lines of:

 

5 Million base

.25 Million for every 100 PA

.5 million All Star

.5 Million batting .300 (or whatever incentive you want)

.5 Million other performance based incentive

------------------------------

8 million (600 PA & achievement of all incentives)

[goonys evil twin]

Here's something I would like to toss out there.

 

If reports are true that Nomar wants to stay (I think that's pretty much an accepted fact now), then do you think he would accept an almost entirely incentive based contract?

 

I think he would accept something that offers a low minimum $2-4m, if the incentives were realistic, based on playing time, and could bring the deal up to $10-11m.

 

I think a 600 PA Nomar would be a great Nomar, and justify a $11m paycheck (what he could have gotten this year with incentives.

 

You can't give an incentive for batting .300, or any other stats based achievement.

[Roast]

Here's something I would like to toss out there.

 

If reports are true that Nomar wants to stay (I think that's pretty much an accepted fact now), then do you think he would accept an almost entirely incentive based contract?

 

I think he would accept something that offers a low minimum $2-4m, if the incentives were realistic, based on playing time, and could bring the deal up to $10-11m.

 

I think a 600 PA Nomar would be a great Nomar, and justify a $11m paycheck (what he could have gotten this year with incentives.

 

You can't give an incentive for batting .300, or any other stats based achievement.

 

 

Okay, what about something along these lines:]

 

 

2 Million base

+

.5 million for 100 PA

1 Million for 200 PA

2 Million for 300 PA

4 Million for 400 PA

6 Million for 500 PA

8 Million for 600 PA

9 Million for 650+ PA

 

If he maxed out and had 650 PA then he would have his 11 million dollar contract that he could have had last year(this year, i guess).

 

I would be content with something like that, personally. I am under the firm belief that if he gets 600 PA he will be worth every penny. That being said, if we can get him for the five million +3 of incentives, I'd do that so fast it'd make heads spin.

[HoopsCubs]

Here's something I would like to toss out there.

 

If reports are true that Nomar wants to stay (I think that's pretty much an accepted fact now), then do you think he would accept an almost entirely incentive based contract?

 

I think he would accept something that offers a low minimum $2-4m, if the incentives were realistic, based on playing time, and could bring the deal up to $10-11m.

 

I think a 600 PA Nomar would be a great Nomar, and justify a $11m paycheck (what he could have gotten this year with incentives.

 

You can't give an incentive for batting .300, or any other stats based achievement.

 

 

Okay, what about something along these lines:]

 

 

2 Million base

+

.5 million for 100 PA

1 Million for 200 PA

2 Million for 300 PA

4 Million for 400 PA

6 Million for 500 PA

8 Million for 600 PA

9 Million for 650+ PA

 

If he maxed out and had 650 PA then he would have his 11 million dollar contract that he could have had last year(this year, i guess).

 

I would be content with something like that, personally. I am under the firm belief that if he gets 600 PA he will be worth every penny. That being said, if we can get him for the five million +3 of incentives, I'd do that so fast it'd make heads spin.

 

Why give him any incentives until he really hits a quality number of plate appearances? I certainly wouldn't reward him for having 100, 200, 300 or even 400 PAs. Give him a $3M base and start the incentive at 500 PAs - say $5M, and then give him $20K for each PA above 500. So, if he ends up at 700 PAs, he gets $3M+$5M+(200 x 20K)=$12M.

[goonys evil twin]

Why give him any incentives until he really hits a quality number of plate appearances? I certainly wouldn't reward him for having 100, 200, 300 or even 400 PAs. Give him a $3M base and start the incentive at 500 PAs - say $5M, and then give him $20K for each PA above 500. So, if he ends up at 700 PAs, he gets $3M+$5M+(200 x 20K)=$12M.

 

Ideally that could happen. But I think you have to give him some insurance for a season in between those numbers. I'd like the base to be less, but I could see incentives being justified starting at 250 PA, not big, but still something. The 500 mark is where he starts being valuable though.

 

$2m base (thanks for signing)

$500K for 250 PA (thanks for showing up)

$500K for 300 PA (thanks for sticking around)

 

now we're at $3m if he plays a little less than half the year.

 

$2m for 400 PA (now you're helping the team and your total is $5m)

$3m for 500 PA (hey, maybe Murton wasn't the only good thing from that trade)

 

here Nomar's paid at the going rate for SS signed since 2002 and he's played most of the year.

 

$3m for 650 PA (full year of Nomar, maybe his numbers won't be worth $11m, but they could be, and it's the incentive to sign such a cheap guarantee)

 

$1m for 700 PA (ain't gonna happen, they probably have to rest him to keep him health for even 600 PA, but this brings him to $12m, the reported average salary he turned down in his last offer from Boston).

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Why give him any incentives until he really hits a quality number of plate appearances? I certainly wouldn't reward him for having 100, 200, 300 or even 400 PAs. Give him a $3M base and start the incentive at 500 PAs - say $5M, and then give him $20K for each PA above 500. So, if he ends up at 700 PAs, he gets $3M+$5M+(200 x 20K)=$12M.

 

Ideally that could happen. But I think you have to give him some insurance for a season in between those numbers. I'd like the base to be less, but I could see incentives being justified starting at 250 PA, not big, but still something. The 500 mark is where he starts being valuable though.

 

$2m base (thanks for signing)

$500K for 250 PA (thanks for showing up)

$500K for 300 PA (thanks for sticking around)

 

now we're at $3m if he plays a little less than half the year.

 

$2m for 400 PA (now you're helping the team and your total is $5m)

$3m for 500 PA (hey, maybe Murton wasn't the only good thing from that trade)

 

here Nomar's paid at the going rate for SS signed since 2002 and he's played most of the year.

 

$3m for 650 PA (full year of Nomar, maybe his numbers won't be worth $11m, but they could be, and it's the incentive to sign such a cheap guarantee)

 

$1m for 700 PA (ain't gonna happen, they probably have to rest him to keep him health for even 600 PA, but this brings him to $12m, the reported average salary he turned down in his last offer from Boston).

 

I like the structure you set up there, goony, but I can't see him signing for less than five million guaranteed. It would be nice if he would, but I just think he's going to have to be guaranteed that much in order to get him to sign.