No Love for Neifi?

[CheeseHead Cubs Fan]

Wondering why Neifi's name keeps coming up in negative aspects in regards to how this team has played. Granted, we have greater issues than just Neifi Perez, but how come he gets no love? Is it the fact that Dusty has given him public praise? Is he disliked due to the fact he is batted in a part of the order that is not condusive to his particular style of hitting? IE (good 8 hitter rather than leadoff/2 hole)

 

What gives? Here are some quick numbers to compare/contrast Nefi to some of the other SS in the league.

David Eckstein:

G AB Runs Hits 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB K SB CS OBP SLG AVG

140 561 77 161 23 7 7 53 219 51 41 10 7 .357 .390 .287

 

Rafael Furcal

G AB Runs Hits 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB K SB CS OBP SLG AVG

136 548 88 153 25 10 11 54 231 56 71 40 8 .344 .422 .279

 

Khalil Green

G AB Runs Hits 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB K SB CS OBP SLG AVG

103 378 45 95 25 2 11 55 157 19 82 4 0 .295 .415 .251

Alex Gonzalez FL

G AB Runs Hits 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB K SB CS OBP SLG AVG

126 435 44 115 30 0 5 45 160 31 81 5 3 .319 .368 .264

 

Jimmy Rollins

G AB Runs Hits 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB K SB CS OBP SLG AVG

139 592 91 160 27 9 9 39 232 39 63 32 6 .317 .392 .270

 

Neifi Perez:

G AB Runs Hits 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB K SB CS OBP SLG AVG

135 497 54 140 29 1 9 50 198 16 41 7 3 .306 .398 .282

 

Yes, I know this is only a handful, but to me these are the most "popular" shortstops in the NL. Take out Jack Wilson (who forgot how to play this year) Cesar (if healthy) could have been a good comparison.

 

Just curious why Neifi isn't given some respect on this board. I am not advocating in any way shape or form, that we need him as our Opening Day SS for 2006.

 

However, I don't think it would hinder us from battling for a Division title.

[Crash]

However, I don't think it would hinder us from battling for a Division title.

 

You don't think having a player with a .306 OBP who has a majority of his at bats at the top of the order would "hinder us"?

 

Nefi is a decent back up if he is used as a back up and when he plays he isn't put ahead of run producers. But unfortunatly he was not used in the proper way this season, something that happened to a lot of Cubs players this season.

[CheeseHead Cubs Fan]

However, I don't think it would hinder us from battling for a Division title.

 

You don't think having a player with a .306 OBP who has a majority of his at bats at the top of the order would "hinder us"?

 

Nefi is a decent back up if he is used as a back up and when he plays he isn't put ahead of run producers. But unfortunatly he was not used in the proper way this season, something that happened to a lot of Cubs players this season.

 

I hear ya man, like I mentioned, I am not advocating Neifi for starting SS. However, if we get a few additional bats in the lineup via FA, I would settle for Neifi at SS hitting 8th.

 

Of course, in my dream world...Nomar would be signed for $$ per minute played and hit around .330 playing almost 155 games :)

[CubfaninCA]

Neifi's 14th in ops amongst shortstops and one of the best defenders @ one of the most important positions on the field. Basically, he's an alright starter for his production and salary. However, he should never bat 2nd. If he batted 7th or 8th, that would be fine. Unless you're NY or Boston, you aren't going to have obp monsters throughout your lineup.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

Wondering why Neifi's name keeps coming up in negative aspects in regards to how this team has played. Granted, we have greater issues than just Neifi Perez, but how come he gets no love? Is it the fact that Dusty has given him public praise? Is he disliked due to the fact he is batted in a part of the order that is not condusive to his particular style of hitting? IE (good 8 hitter rather than leadoff/2 hole)

 

What gives? Here are some quick numbers to compare/contrast Nefi to some of the other SS in the league.

David Eckstein:

G AB Runs Hits 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB K SB CS OBP SLG AVG

140 561 77 161 23 7 7 53 219 51 41 10 7 .357 .390 .287

 

Rafael Furcal

G AB Runs Hits 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB K SB CS OBP SLG AVG

136 548 88 153 25 10 11 54 231 56 71 40 8 .344 .422 .279

 

Khalil Green

G AB Runs Hits 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB K SB CS OBP SLG AVG

103 378 45 95 25 2 11 55 157 19 82 4 0 .295 .415 .251

Alex Gonzalez FL

G AB Runs Hits 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB K SB CS OBP SLG AVG

126 435 44 115 30 0 5 45 160 31 81 5 3 .319 .368 .264

 

Jimmy Rollins

G AB Runs Hits 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB K SB CS OBP SLG AVG

139 592 91 160 27 9 9 39 232 39 63 32 6 .317 .392 .270

 

Neifi Perez:

G AB Runs Hits 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB K SB CS OBP SLG AVG

135 497 54 140 29 1 9 50 198 16 41 7 3 .306 .398 .282

 

Yes, I know this is only a handful, but to me these are the most "popular" shortstops in the NL. Take out Jack Wilson (who forgot how to play this year) Cesar (if healthy) could have been a good comparison.

 

Just curious why Neifi isn't given some respect on this board. I am not advocating in any way shape or form, that we need him as our Opening Day SS for 2006.

 

However, I don't think it would hinder us from battling for a Division title.

 

Neifi has the lowest OPS and second lowest OBP of the shortstops you listed, you do realize that, don't you??

 

The frustration I agree should be more directed at Dustbag though. Neifi as utility infielder, I have absolutely no problem with, in fact, I like it. The problem is he should never be a starter, and he should never hit anywhere other than 7 or 8 when he does spot-start. That poor usage is all on Dusty, just like he misused Mulletsworth, and Remlinger, and Simon, and Harris before him.

 

Dusty is a "pet lover."

 

PS--What, there's a software filter now so you can't call Baker "Dust bag"? That's pretty lame.

[CheeseHead Cubs Fan]

Wondering why Neifi's name keeps coming up in negative aspects in regards to how this team has played. Granted, we have greater issues than just Neifi Perez, but how come he gets no love? Is it the fact that Dusty has given him public praise? Is he disliked due to the fact he is batted in a part of the order that is not condusive to his particular style of hitting? IE (good 8 hitter rather than leadoff/2 hole)

 

What gives? Here are some quick numbers to compare/contrast Nefi to some of the other SS in the league.

David Eckstein:

G AB Runs Hits 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB K SB CS OBP SLG AVG

140 561 77 161 23 7 7 53 219 51 41 10 7 .357 .390 .287

 

Rafael Furcal

G AB Runs Hits 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB K SB CS OBP SLG AVG

136 548 88 153 25 10 11 54 231 56 71 40 8 .344 .422 .279

 

Khalil Green

G AB Runs Hits 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB K SB CS OBP SLG AVG

103 378 45 95 25 2 11 55 157 19 82 4 0 .295 .415 .251

Alex Gonzalez FL

G AB Runs Hits 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB K SB CS OBP SLG AVG

126 435 44 115 30 0 5 45 160 31 81 5 3 .319 .368 .264

 

Jimmy Rollins

G AB Runs Hits 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB K SB CS OBP SLG AVG

139 592 91 160 27 9 9 39 232 39 63 32 6 .317 .392 .270

 

Neifi Perez:

G AB Runs Hits 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB K SB CS OBP SLG AVG

135 497 54 140 29 1 9 50 198 16 41 7 3 .306 .398 .282

 

Yes, I know this is only a handful, but to me these are the most "popular" shortstops in the NL. Take out Jack Wilson (who forgot how to play this year) Cesar (if healthy) could have been a good comparison.

 

Just curious why Neifi isn't given some respect on this board. I am not advocating in any way shape or form, that we need him as our Opening Day SS for 2006.

 

However, I don't think it would hinder us from battling for a Division title.

 

Neifi has the lowest OPS and second lowest OBP of the shortstops you listed, you do realize that, don't you??

 

The frustration I agree should be more directed at Dusty though. Neifi as utility infielder, I have absolutely no problem with, in fact, I like it. The problem is he should never be a starter, and he should never hit anywhere other than 7 or 8 when he does spot-start. That poor usage is all on Dusty, just like he misused Mulletsworth, and Remlinger, and Simon, and Harris before him.

 

Dusty is a "pet lover."

 

PS--What, there's a software filter now so you can't call Baker "Dust bag"? That's pretty lame.

 

Yes, I realize that...and this thread was not to praise Neifi, just a comparison to other well-known SS. Once again, he is not as bad is individuals point him out to be, rather just used in the wrong spot in the batting order.

 

For me, he is the best glove man the Cubs can offer at SS this season.

[imb]

Neifi hatred is 20% "he is awful" and 80% "Dusty Baker is a moron".

 

Yes, he sucks. But the real problem is that he has been 1.)in the 2 hole so much, and 2.)plays over Ronny, when Ronny (un-injured) should be getting 100% of the starts.

[jyoung55]

Don't forget that not only are his OBP and OPS horrible, his numbers in general are skewed over that crazy month starting the season where he forgot that he was Neifi Perez.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

Maybe you should include the short stops in the American League. Most of the short stops in the National League aren't too great offensively. And even in this company he doesn't look good. Note: any time a player has close to a .300 OBP you don't want them in your starting lineup.

[CubfaninCA]

Neifi hatred is 20% "he is awful" and 80% "Dusty Baker is a moron".

 

Yes, he sucks. But the real problem is that he has been 1.)in the 2 hole so much, and 2.)plays over Ronny, when Ronny (un-injured) should be getting 100% of the starts.

 

He doesn't suck, and quite a few managers would probably give Neifi the nod over Cedeno. A lot of manager's just don't give up on reaching the playoffs. They're managing for another contract. Face it. Neifi's a middle of the pack hitter for SS, and has one of the best gloves amongst shortstops. I just don't get why defense means so little to some.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

For me, he is the best glove man the Cubs can offer at SS this season.

I would rather have Cedeno out there defensively.

[CubfaninCA]

For me, he is the best glove man the Cubs can offer at SS this season.

I would rather have Cedeno out there defensively.

 

Even though he's on the DL?? Wow! :wink:

[burnt out cubbie fan]

For me, he is the best glove man the Cubs can offer at SS this season.

I would rather have Cedeno out there defensively.

 

Even though he's on the DL?? Wow! :wink:

Funny. :cry: and maybe..

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Neifi hatred is 20% "he is awful" and 80% "Dusty Baker is a moron".

 

Yes, he sucks. But the real problem is that he has been 1.)in the 2 hole so much, and 2.)plays over Ronny, when Ronny (un-injured) should be getting 100% of the starts.

 

He doesn't suck, and quite a few managers would probably give Neifi the nod over Cedeno. A lot of manager's just don't give up on reaching the playoffs. They're managing for another contract. Face it. Neifi's a middle of the pack hitter for SS, and has one of the best gloves amongst shortstops. I just don't get why defense means so little to some.

 

You know, Ronny isn't chopped liver when it comes to defense.

[CubfaninCA]

Neifi hatred is 20% "he is awful" and 80% "Dusty Baker is a moron".

 

Yes, he sucks. But the real problem is that he has been 1.)in the 2 hole so much, and 2.)plays over Ronny, when Ronny (un-injured) should be getting 100% of the starts.

 

He doesn't suck, and quite a few managers would probably give Neifi the nod over Cedeno. A lot of manager's just don't give up on reaching the playoffs. They're managing for another contract. Face it. Neifi's a middle of the pack hitter for SS, and has one of the best gloves amongst shortstops. I just don't get why defense means so little to some.

 

You know, Ronny isn't chopped liver when it comes to defense.

 

Wasn't even trying to compare Nef and Cedeno's d. Heck it's irrelevant now.

 

Just don't get why Neifi's such a favorite whipping boy. Neifi doesn't fill out the lineup card, and Baker knows what type of hitter Neifi is.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

Neifi hatred is 20% "he is awful" and 80% "Dusty Baker is a moron".

 

Yes, he sucks. But the real problem is that he has been 1.)in the 2 hole so much, and 2.)plays over Ronny, when Ronny (un-injured) should be getting 100% of the starts.

 

He doesn't suck, and quite a few managers would probably give Neifi the nod over Cedeno. A lot of manager's just don't give up on reaching the playoffs. They're managing for another contract. Face it. Neifi's a middle of the pack hitter for SS, and has one of the best gloves amongst shortstops. I just don't get why defense means so little to some.

 

You know, Ronny isn't chopped liver when it comes to defense.

 

Wasn't even trying to compare Nef and Cedeno's d. Heck it's irrelevant now.

 

Just don't get why Neifi's such a favorite whipping boy. Neifi doesn't fill out the lineup card, and Baker knows what type of hitter Neifi is.

I am so sick of this excuse. He still isn't any good. That is Neifi's fault.

[CubfaninCA]

Neifi hatred is 20% "he is awful" and 80% "Dusty Baker is a moron".

 

Yes, he sucks. But the real problem is that he has been 1.)in the 2 hole so much, and 2.)plays over Ronny, when Ronny (un-injured) should be getting 100% of the starts.

 

He doesn't suck, and quite a few managers would probably give Neifi the nod over Cedeno. A lot of manager's just don't give up on reaching the playoffs. They're managing for another contract. Face it. Neifi's a middle of the pack hitter for SS, and has one of the best gloves amongst shortstops. I just don't get why defense means so little to some.

 

You know, Ronny isn't chopped liver when it comes to defense.

 

Wasn't even trying to compare Nef and Cedeno's d. Heck it's irrelevant now.

 

Just don't get why Neifi's such a favorite whipping boy. Neifi doesn't fill out the lineup card, and Baker knows what type of hitter Neifi is.

I am so sick of this excuse. He still isn't any good. That is Neifi's fault.

 

I guess that's why you're burnt out cubbie fan. :o

[bring stone back]

How is it that this guy continues to get criticized after every game and every at bat? Can you honestly look at every other BACKUP middle infielder in baseball and say Neifi can't at least compare to them?

 

Some of you react like he was brought here to be the every day shortstop and our clean-up hitter. He is what he is, a quality back up who can spot start at 2B or SS, play solid defense and provide some quality at bats. So he's to blame when Nomar went down or was that Dusty's fault?

 

There are a lot of reasons for the Cubs' collapse in '05. Neifi Perez is VERY low on that laundry list.

[Guest]

Neifi hatred is 20% "he is awful" and 80% "Dusty Baker is a moron".

 

Yes, he sucks. But the real problem is that he has been 1.)in the 2 hole so much, and 2.)plays over Ronny, when Ronny (un-injured) should be getting 100% of the starts.

 

He doesn't suck, and quite a few managers would probably give Neifi the nod over Cedeno. A lot of manager's just don't give up on reaching the playoffs. They're managing for another contract. Face it. Neifi's a middle of the pack hitter for SS, and has one of the best gloves amongst shortstops. I just don't get why defense means so little to some.

Dusty seems to be of the opinion that playing young players means you're phoning in the season. On more than one occasion he's made statements along the line of "Are we here to win or are we here to develop?" I hate to break this to you Dusty, but the two aren't mutually exclusive. Atlanta, Cleveland, and Oakland haven't built successful franchises despite playing a bunch of young guys, they've been successful because they're willing to accept cheap production.

 

This season Cedeno hasn't been that much more productive than Neifi. (Though he has been the more productive player.) Before you start thinking that this provides some justification for playing Neifi, however, consider the following: 2005 will most certainly go down as the best season of Perez' career. (Sad, isn't it, that a .700 OPS season in a neutral park blows away every other season he's ever had?) Cedeno, meanwhile, has put up better numbers while breaking into the majors at a relatively young age while getting very sporadic playing time. In other words, the obvious expectation is that Perez will only get worse while Cedeno has a great shot at getting better. Despite this, however, Dusty continued to sit Cedeno in favor of Neifi.

 

I don't hate Neifi. I believe he's among the absolute worst hitters ever to weasel his way into regular playing time, but I don't hate him. As a starter he's abhorrent. As a backup he's tolerable provided he's having a good year. As long as he's on the Cubs I hope he does well, but considering Neifi at his best still puts him among the league's worst I also hope he's nowhere near this team in 2006.

[frostwyrm]

2005 will most certainly go down as the best season of Perez' career. (Sad, isn't it, that a .700 OPS season in a neutral park blows away every other season he's ever had?).

 

I agree, this is Neifi's career year, same as 2004 for Tony Womack. The Cards realized this and let Womack go, but the Cubs would've kept Womack for 2005, and they will keep Neifi for 2006. I am looking forward to seeing Neifi revert to a .600 OPS next year in a Cubs uniform.

[Tracer Bullet]

This season Cedeno hasn't been that much more productive than Neifi. (Though he has been the more productive player.)

 

While that's certainly true at the major league level, as you pointed out, Cedeno was a "spot" starter (at best). But when Nomar went down, Ronny was hitting like .370 at Iowa. He finished the year there .355/.403/.518. Now those numbers don't mean he's going to hit .350 w/ a .900+ OPS at the major-league level, but when you have a guy hitting that well in AAA, why wouldn't you give him a shot? What more is he supposed to do at Iowa? Overall, Ronny had a much more productive year than Neifi, Dusty just didn't give him the opportunity to produce in Chicago.

[Backtobanks]

No matter what the topic is, you come to the same conclusion----Dusty Baker doesn't have a clue. Perez hasn't done a bad job as a substitute who was forced to start most of the year, but Dusty batted him at the top of the lineup. Macias isn't horrible as a 25th man, but Dusty uses him as the first player off the bench. Dempster has been great, but it took Dusty quite a while to figure out who the closer would be. I won't go on about Patterson leading off, Remlinger used as a LOOGY, etc., but you get my drift.

[neely crenshaw]

it still puzzles me why people think neifi sucks and he has been terrible.

he has had a great year for a back up. he is still hitting near .300 with 500 at bats- we were all waiting for him to revert to his career averages, but he didn't. he has played good defense on a really bad defensive team. despite his obp, he is one of the few players who actually take pitches. he will never,ever have a high obp simply because who would walk him? i have said this many times...you get to 2-0 on him and you just set a bp fastball in there and take your chances.

it is not his fault that dusty a). hits him 2nd or b) plays him in front of cedeno or that hendry c) signed a very injury prone ss that neifi would need to get 500 at bats

i do not want neifi to be the everyday shortstop and i do want cedeno to start every game down the stretch but i still appreciate the year that neifi has had, he has been one of the few cubs that have actually overachieved this season

 

you do realize that this obp you are freaking over is except for eckstien, 30 points or less. that means that furcal gets on base about 30 times more often in 1000 at bats..or about 2 seasons. that means you think a guy sucks over 15 times on base per season(or less) and those players are their teams starters....neifi is a back up

[Guest]

despite his obp, he is one of the few players who actually take pitches.

Neifi has seen fewer pitches per plate appearance -- 3.28 -- than any other Cub regular this season. Even Patterson and Macias look at more pitches than Neifi, coming in at 3.41 and 3.46, respectively. Heck, most of our starting pitchers work the count better than Perez.

[brfahey]

it still puzzles me why people think neifi sucks and he has been terrible.

he has had a great year for a back up. he is still hitting near .300 with 500 at bats- we were all waiting for him to revert to his career averages, but he didn't. he has played good defense on a really bad defensive team. despite his obp, he is one of the few players who actually take pitches. he will never,ever have a high obp simply because who would walk him? i have said this many times...you get to 2-0 on him and you just set a bp fastball in there and take your chances.

it is not his fault that dusty a). hits him 2nd or b) plays him in front of cedeno or that hendry c) signed a very injury prone ss that neifi would need to get 500 at bats

i do not want neifi to be the everyday shortstop and i do want cedeno to start every game down the stretch but i still appreciate the year that neifi has had, he has been one of the few cubs that have actually overachieved this season

 

This thread is probably a long time overdue. There was a similar discussion in yesterday's game thread though. The point I made there and the one I believe some are making here is not that Neifi is a great player; rather he has contributed quite a bit this year and people still villify him like no one else on the team. I know everyone will not agree with this, but, in terms of relative suckiness, Neifi has been way overcriticized relative to Patterson. While lately the Patterson defenders have been quiet (no other choice), there were plenty of excuses being made for him earlier in the year as he flailed away and played with his head up his ass. I am not saying there wasn't any criticism of Patterson; it's just that there wasn't enough of it compared to the grief perez received.

 

People just seem to hate Perez's game no matter what he does. That's fine. But if you hate his game PLEASE do not say a single word defending Patterson or making any excuses for him. And please, no more calling him CPatt.