The Bull Pen

[Beer Kaese]

What's wrong with a Pen that features Dempster as closer with Ohman, Novoa and Wuertz? We'd need two more guys. One long, one short. Maybe one of the two a lefty. Options on the current roster, off the top of my head, Rusch, Williamson, Williams, Leicester, Wellemeyer, Hill, Mitre, JVB. I'd ignore FAs but wouldn't rule out a trade.

 

(edit to limit to one topic)

[biittner77]

What's wrong with a Pen that features Dempster as closer with Ohman, Novoa and Wuertz? We'd need two more guys. One long, one short. Maybe one of the two a lefty. Options on the current roster, off the top of my head, Rusch, Williamson, Williams, Leicester, Wellemeyer, Hill, Mitre, JVB. I'd ignore FAs but wouldn't rule out a trade.

 

(edit to limit to one topic)

 

Also, Wellemeyer and Mitre are out of options so they either make the team or get traded as neither clears waivers- at least not until the season starts and they don't show anything ala Bartosh.

 

What they'll actually do depends on how the rotation shakes out. Williams, Mitre and Hill battle it out for 5th starter. One gets traded and the other goes to the pen.

[UK1679666180]

What's wrong with a Pen that features Dempster as closer with Ohman, Novoa and Wuertz? We'd need two more guys. One long, one short. Maybe one of the two a lefty. Options on the current roster, off the top of my head, Rusch, Williamson, Williams, Leicester, Wellemeyer, Hill, Mitre, JVB. I'd ignore FAs but wouldn't rule out a trade.

 

(edit to limit to one topic)

 

I think it's the difference between wanting an avg. pen and a great pen.

 

Say you get Ryan and Sauerbeck, the pen likely becomes one of the top 5 in MLB.

[Beer Kaese]

What's wrong with a Pen that features Dempster as closer with Ohman, Novoa and Wuertz? We'd need two more guys. One long, one short. Maybe one of the two a lefty. Options on the current roster, off the top of my head, Rusch, Williamson, Williams, Leicester, Wellemeyer, Hill, Mitre, JVB. I'd ignore FAs but wouldn't rule out a trade.

 

(edit to limit to one topic)

 

I think it's the difference between wanting an avg. pen and a great pen.

 

Say you get Ryan and Sauerbeck, the pen likely becomes one of the top 5 in MLB.

 

One of the things I'm looking at is the 40 man crunch. We have too many guys we control to do the off season with free agents. We need to deal off multiple cusp guys with near ready guys (Murton, Hill, ect) to make things more comfortable (Sisco?). Sure, Dempster isn't proven but he's looked very good in the closer role. Ohman, Novoa and Wuertz have settled in nicely with the closer role set. I'd like to get a short man for the 8th, if necessary, and I think we can do that while peeling off guys we can no longer protect. I'd be happy with one quality short man through trade and a AAAA long man.

[UK1679666180]

The Cubs have enough flexibility to dance around the 40 man roster without losing anyone of importance. As we found out last year, it just depends who they allow to picked up via Rule 5 and who they remove off the 40 man roster.

 

The Cubs will try and win it all next year, to do so, they'll have to improve the pen. The pen you listed would have to work out perfectly to become an above avg. pen as everyone would have to stay healthy and not regress, I see that bullpen as avg. at best. Meanwhile, the pen I listed would likely if everything worked out, would be one of the top 5 in the game. Even if it didn't go as planned, it could still be an above avg. pen.

[neely crenshaw]

what makes you think the cubs will try to win it all next year? they needed 2 players in 2004 to make a real run and got neither.(closer-leadoff man)now they have many, many holes to fill and now they will fill them? sorry don't see it.

[UK1679666180]

With the age of this team, payroll, and beliefs held by Hendry and Baker, this team will make moves for the short-term 1st.

 

The Cubs will do everything in their power to appease the fans who are bitter over this year's performance.

 

Nomar (05'), Burnitz (05'), Hawkins (04'), Maddux (04') were expensive FAs brought in for the short-term. I think the free agents brought in will be to win next year in a similar fashion.

 

This team isn't rebuilding and they won't be building for the future, which means they'll be trying to win it all, probably in a similar fashiom as they did last off-season.

[Beer Kaese]

With the age of this team, payroll, and beliefs held by Hendry and Baker, this team will make moves for the short-term 1st.

 

The Cubs will do everything in their power to appease the fans who are bitter over this year's performance.

 

Nomar (05'), Burnitz (05'), Hawkins (04'), Maddux (04') were expensive FAs brought in for the short-term. I think the free agents brought in will be to win next year in a similar fashion.

 

This team isn't rebuilding and they won't be building for the future, which means they'll be trying to win it all, probably in a similar fashiom as they did last off-season.

 

I agree there will be no rebuilding. It's more like reloading. If done intelligently, we'd use what has performed and is cheap and spend on the right guys to round it out.

 

We're built around Wood, Prior, Zambrano, Lee and Ramirez with a nod to Barrett and Blanco.

 

Our biggest needs on offense are a top OBP guy and LH slugger and we have SS, 2B and all 3 OF positions to work with. Furcal would give us a .340+ OBP guy who plays short and can steal a base. A guy like Giles would give us a LH slugger in right with a high OBP. The numbers thrown around on this forum suggests I've just spent about 20 mil for the next three years. (Furcal @ 32 for 4 and Giles @ 32 for 3)

 

Now comes the trade part, which may not be possible. If a deal for Dunn or Griffey can be made it will cost us pitching. (Cincy should be willing to deal, they need what we have and we need what they have. STL and HOU can be beat and MIL is rising fast.) Griffey? What's wrong with Furcal-Walker-Giles-Lee-Griffey-Ramirez-Barrett-LF? I'd rather have Dunn but a healthy Griffey covers a tougher position and I'm sure we could get Cincy to pickup some salary. We ship them Williams, Hill and something else to make a deal work. I think Griffey is something that can be done, Dunn can't. Take Griffey, that adds salary. Replace the cluster cluck that is the 5th rotation spot and look for a FA to round it out.

 

(I think Nomar could end up on the south side, why not?)

 

If you add Furcal, Giles, Griffey and a quality FA pitcher you've shot your wad. A pen with Dempster, Ohman, Novoa and Wuertz as a starting point with guys like Williamson and a AAAA long man might work. (Though I would take the Hendry approach and grab some garbage off the heap and see what happens -- Rusch, Dempster, Williamson ...)

 

Also, I'd look toward the Indians and try to pry away one of their proven pen guys with my overload of cusp players.

[CubfaninCA]

Give Van Buren the 5th spot, and the top 5 should be pretty solid.

 

Trade Rusch. It's nice to have him as a 6th starter, but he hasn't been effective out of the pen, and Dusty loves putting the vets in spots where they don't excel (see Neifi for more). Hill should be ready to start next year anyways. Just keep him @ Iowa next year. He should be up soon when Wood goes down in May.

 

Not sure if Williamson should come back. What do you guys think??

[Beer Kaese]

Give Van Buren the 5th spot, and the top 5 should be pretty solid.

 

Trade Rusch. It's nice to have him as a 6th starter, but he hasn't been effective out of the pen, and Dusty loves putting the vets in spots where they don't excel (see Neifi for more). Hill should be ready to start next year anyways. Just keep him @ Iowa next year. He should be up soon when Wood goes down in May.

 

Not sure if Williamson should come back. What do you guys think??

 

I don't see JVB as a starter but he's a top pen option.

 

I'd assume Rusch picks up his option. That moves him into the trade bait/long man slot.

 

Small sample size on Williamson. I don't know what the team option costs but when healthy the man rocks.

Edited September 10, 2005 by Beer Kaese

[CubfaninCA]

Give Van Buren the 5th spot, and the top 5 should be pretty solid.

 

Trade Rusch. It's nice to have him as a 6th starter, but he hasn't been effective out of the pen, and Dusty loves putting the vets in spots where they don't excel (see Neifi for more). Hill should be ready to start next year anyways. Just keep him @ Iowa next year. He should be up soon when Wood goes down in May.

 

Not sure if Williamson should come back. What do you guys think??

 

I don't see JVB as a starter but he's a top pen option.

 

I'd assume Rusch picks up his option. That moves him into the trade bait/long man slot.

 

Small sample size on Williamson. I'd don't know what the team option costs but when healthy the man rocks.

 

I meant make him the 5th reliever. As you said, Dempster, Wuertz, Ohman and Novoa have been alright.

[Beer Kaese]

Give Van Buren the 5th spot, and the top 5 should be pretty solid.

 

Trade Rusch. It's nice to have him as a 6th starter, but he hasn't been effective out of the pen, and Dusty loves putting the vets in spots where they don't excel (see Neifi for more). Hill should be ready to start next year anyways. Just keep him @ Iowa next year. He should be up soon when Wood goes down in May.

 

Not sure if Williamson should come back. What do you guys think??

 

I don't see JVB as a starter but he's a top pen option.

 

I'd assume Rusch picks up his option. That moves him into the trade bait/long man slot.

 

Small sample size on Williamson. I'd don't know what the team option costs but when healthy the man rocks.

 

I meant make him the 5th reliever. As you said, Dempster, Wuertz, Ohman and Novoa have been alright.

 

Ah. I have JVB on the 40 man but still in trips in case Novoa or Wuertz falters. He might win a spot on the 25 man out of spring but I go with what is now as a basis. JVB is one more reason why the pen is the least of our worries.

[CubfaninCA]

Give Van Buren the 5th spot, and the top 5 should be pretty solid.

 

Trade Rusch. It's nice to have him as a 6th starter, but he hasn't been effective out of the pen, and Dusty loves putting the vets in spots where they don't excel (see Neifi for more). Hill should be ready to start next year anyways. Just keep him @ Iowa next year. He should be up soon when Wood goes down in May.

 

Not sure if Williamson should come back. What do you guys think??

 

I don't see JVB as a starter but he's a top pen option.

 

I'd assume Rusch picks up his option. That moves him into the trade bait/long man slot.

 

Small sample size on Williamson. I'd don't know what the team option costs but when healthy the man rocks.

 

I meant make him the 5th reliever. As you said, Dempster, Wuertz, Ohman and Novoa have been alright.

 

Ah. I have JVB on the 40 man but still in trips in case Novoa or Wuertz falters. He might win a spot on the 25 man out of spring but I go with what is now as a basis. JVB is one more reason why the pen is the least of our worries.

 

Yep, agree w/ you about it being the least of the Cubs worries. Finally, the Cubs have several solid, cheap and young guys. Perhaps they can make JVB the setup man and eventually turn him into the closer.

[Balsa]

Silver lining in some of the Cubs starters not doing so well. The Pen is getting a lot of work and experience this year. Especially needed when some are so young.

 

I like how our pen looks next year. Maybe hire a closer in Wagner or that other guy that everyone mentions.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Give Van Buren the 5th spot, and the top 5 should be pretty solid.

 

Trade Rusch. It's nice to have him as a 6th starter, but he hasn't been effective out of the pen, and Dusty loves putting the vets in spots where they don't excel (see Neifi for more). Hill should be ready to start next year anyways. Just keep him @ Iowa next year. He should be up soon when Wood goes down in May.

 

Not sure if Williamson should come back. What do you guys think??

 

I don't see JVB as a starter but he's a top pen option.

 

I'd assume Rusch picks up his option. That moves him into the trade bait/long man slot.

 

Small sample size on Williamson. I'd don't know what the team option costs but when healthy the man rocks.

 

I meant make him the 5th reliever. As you said, Dempster, Wuertz, Ohman and Novoa have been alright.

 

Ah. I have JVB on the 40 man but still in trips in case Novoa or Wuertz falters. He might win a spot on the 25 man out of spring but I go with what is now as a basis. JVB is one more reason why the pen is the least of our worries.

 

Yep, agree w/ you about it being the least of the Cubs worries. Finally, the Cubs have several solid, cheap and young guys. Perhaps they can make JVB the setup man and eventually turn him into the closer.

 

Novoa and Wuertz are decent 7th inning guys, but I don't know if we should count on them as the mainstays in the pen. Their WHIP's are alarmingly high for someone in that position. I think at a minimum you bring back Williamson, and then possibly explore getting another reliever via FA or Trade.

[Beer Kaese]

Give Van Buren the 5th spot, and the top 5 should be pretty solid.

 

Trade Rusch. It's nice to have him as a 6th starter, but he hasn't been effective out of the pen, and Dusty loves putting the vets in spots where they don't excel (see Neifi for more). Hill should be ready to start next year anyways. Just keep him @ Iowa next year. He should be up soon when Wood goes down in May.

 

Not sure if Williamson should come back. What do you guys think??

 

I don't see JVB as a starter but he's a top pen option.

 

I'd assume Rusch picks up his option. That moves him into the trade bait/long man slot.

 

Small sample size on Williamson. I'd don't know what the team option costs but when healthy the man rocks.

 

I meant make him the 5th reliever. As you said, Dempster, Wuertz, Ohman and Novoa have been alright.

 

Ah. I have JVB on the 40 man but still in trips in case Novoa or Wuertz falters. He might win a spot on the 25 man out of spring but I go with what is now as a basis. JVB is one more reason why the pen is the least of our worries.

 

Yep, agree w/ you about it being the least of the Cubs worries. Finally, the Cubs have several solid, cheap and young guys. Perhaps they can make JVB the setup man and eventually turn him into the closer.

 

It means we can spend elsewhere! Our pen looks pretty good.

[CubfaninCA]

Give Van Buren the 5th spot, and the top 5 should be pretty solid.

 

Trade Rusch. It's nice to have him as a 6th starter, but he hasn't been effective out of the pen, and Dusty loves putting the vets in spots where they don't excel (see Neifi for more). Hill should be ready to start next year anyways. Just keep him @ Iowa next year. He should be up soon when Wood goes down in May.

 

Not sure if Williamson should come back. What do you guys think??

 

I don't see JVB as a starter but he's a top pen option.

 

I'd assume Rusch picks up his option. That moves him into the trade bait/long man slot.

 

Small sample size on Williamson. I'd don't know what the team option costs but when healthy the man rocks.

 

I meant make him the 5th reliever. As you said, Dempster, Wuertz, Ohman and Novoa have been alright.

 

Ah. I have JVB on the 40 man but still in trips in case Novoa or Wuertz falters. He might win a spot on the 25 man out of spring but I go with what is now as a basis. JVB is one more reason why the pen is the least of our worries.

 

Yep, agree w/ you about it being the least of the Cubs worries. Finally, the Cubs have several solid, cheap and young guys. Perhaps they can make JVB the setup man and eventually turn him into the closer.

 

Novoa and Wuertz are decent 7th inning guys, but I don't know if we should count on them as the mainstays in the pen. Their WHIP's are alarmingly high for someone in that position. I think at a minimum you bring back Williamson, and then possibly explore getting another reliever via FA or Trade.

 

I wouldn't mind one free agent pickup. Who should they target?? BJ Ryan would be great, but this is the Cubs and they'll get outbid. Is Guillermo Mota a FA??

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I wouldn't mind one free agent pickup. Who should they target?? BJ Ryan would be great, but this is the Cubs and they'll get outbid. Is Guillermo Mota a FA??

 

Mota has another year before free agency. Maybe they can take advantage of small market teams with arby eligible middle relievers. David Riske, come on down.

[Illini Iceman]

I wouldn't mind one free agent pickup. Who should they target?? BJ Ryan would be great, but this is the Cubs and they'll get outbid. Is Guillermo Mota a FA??

 

Mota has another year before free agency. Maybe they can take advantage of small market teams with arby eligible middle relievers. David Riske, come on down.

 

I agree that is the way to go. BJ Ryan looks good but the Cubs recent track record with FA relievers (i.e.- Hawkins, Remlinger) makes me a little nervous about giving big bucks to another one.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

I wouldn't mind one free agent pickup. Who should they target?? BJ Ryan would be great, but this is the Cubs and they'll get outbid. Is Guillermo Mota a FA??

 

Mota has another year before free agency. Maybe they can take advantage of small market teams with arby eligible middle relievers. David Riske, come on down.

 

I agree that is the way to go. BJ Ryan looks good but the Cubs recent track record with FA relievers (i.e.- Hawkins, Remlinger) makes me a little nervous about giving big bucks to another one.

 

I think Ryan is far more talented than either of those two pitches. Plus, BJ has succeeded in the closer role (something LaTroy never really did) and he's not an old free agent like Remlinger (he's entering his prime).

 

I have no problem going for a Riske-type player and bring back Ryan Dempster as closer, but I have no qualms with going after BJ Ryan. Just say no to Billy Wagner.

[don_kessinger_was_good]

The Cubs REALLY need BJ Ryan. He makes so much sense for this team, and the Cubs can easily afford him. In fact, after Brian Giles, I regard Ryan as Hendry's top off-season priority. Get him here.

 

He's left-handed and very talented. I really like the idea of having Dempster and Ryan, a lefty and a righty, for the 8th and 9th innings. If we had a smart manager, that could be a real weapon. Rather than saying one of you is the closer, the other is setup, I'd tell them they're each both. You'll alternate roles depending on how the other lineup shapes up. Would be awesome.

 

I agree that Novoa, Wuertz and JVB look just fine for middle relief, and Ohman has been one of the better loogy's we've had the last ten years. If Rusch chooses to return, he's your long reliever/spot starter, if not, you could put Mitre or Wellemeyer in that role.

 

Yep, sign BJ Ryan and re-sign Dempster, I like it alot.

 

And PS--what if the Cubs sign AJ Burnett? Then you'd have the choice of making Williams your long man and putting Wood in the rotation, or keeping Williams as the #5 guy and putting Wood at the end of the game.

 

Dempster, Ryan, Wood--think about that for a second. Wow.

[Outshined_One]

After seeing his performances this season, it makes you wonder if the Cubs would be best served by moving Kerry Wood to the pen. I grant you, if he's fully healthy he's an incredible asset to the Cubs' rotation...but it seems like those days are few and far between recently. At least if he's in the BP, he won't pitch as many innings and will only be used sporadically.

 

Heck, give the Cubs a manager who knows how to use a bullpen and he could win the Cy Young in much the same way Gagne did.

[marc_foust]

With the holes we have to fill this offseason (Of, Of, 5th st, SS?) I have no problem with the pen we have now. Wuertz looked solid until he was run into the ground by Dusty, Ohman is more than capable for a loogy, and Novoa has looked strong in some showings. Bring back demp to close and willianson as the set up if my my next idea doesnt fly. The long man goes to either mitre, rusch, welly etc. I would really like to pursue another starter to replace Wood. Wood will not be traded and i know his contract is too much for a bp guy, but the contract is already signed and i dont think any of us think he can go the entire season as a starter. Put him in the pen where he will get limited use every game and let him be the lights out 8th inning guy before turning it over to demp. The rotation looks like Prior, Z, Maddux, Hill or williams, FA Starter. I think that will be a very cost effective offseason for our pitching. That just leaves holes for two outfielders. and possibly a ss.

[Beer Kaese]

Going back to dealing with Cincy for an outfielder.

 

They have a popular first baseman who's a bit pricey. Hill, Williams and Sing for Dunn or Griffey at a reduced price? Extend Lee. That keeps Murton in reserve to deal with Cleveland for a proven pen arm. We keep Cedeno, Nolasco and E Patterson.

[MPrior]

I think Wood should definitely start out next season in the rotation. As has been said, he's pretty filthy when he's healthy. And he just had surgery, which helped Matt Morris out - so starting him out in the pen next season might be cheating ourselves of a top-of-the-rotation starter. Of course, the first time he goes on the DL for shoulder soreness or anything of the sort, we move him to the bullpen.