Aug 26 Marlins (Vargas 4-1) at Cubs (Rusch 5-6) 1:20 wgn

[neely crenshaw]

isit possible that pittsburgh catches us? they are closer to us than we are to the wildcard...

 

we are really good :shock:

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Keep losing you clowns. Keep losing. Maybe we'll get the chance to draft a real professional baseball player.

 

If the season ended today, the Cubs would have the 11th pick in the draft - they could sign anyone in free agency and not have to surrender their first round pick!

[brfahey]

Barrett singles to lead off the 9th w/ the team down 2 - another "meaningless" hit. Damn stat-padder.

 

I never said a hit was meaninless. I said some at-bats are more meaningful than others. If you want to actually watch the game and understand what you are watching instead of cheerleading for a guy you "like" for whatever reason, fine. I am not saying that Barrett can't get better either. But at this stage he does not do his best when the heat is on. More than just today. See Philadelphia, a mental, not, physical, error. In fact, I think he admitted himself in a newspaper article this year that he pressed too much when he came up with bases loaded.

 

Barrett with the bases loaded this year: .364/.364/.636/1.000, 3 doubles in 11 at bats.

 

Are you made of stone??? Listen to your feelings about Barrett! Watch the games!

 

You know it's interesting how much people will just look blindly at stats and not behind numbers.

 

Barett does indeed have a good average with the baes loaded, .333 (4-12). I have located 9 of those twelve at bats. Here were the hitting situations:

 

April 10 v. Milwaukee, score tied in 10th, Barrett strikes out.

June 4 v. San Diego, Cubs ahead 5-0 in 5th, Barrett doubles.

July 24 v. St.L, tied in 10th, Barrett strikes out.

July 25 v. San Fran, game tied in 8th, Barrett pops out to first.

July 28 v. Az, trailing 1-0 in 6th, Barrett grounds into a force

August 3 v. Phil, trailing 3-0 in 5th, Barrett strikes out

August 23 v. Atl, ahead 2-0 in 3rd, Barrett strikes out

August 23, ahead 8-1 in 8th, Barrett doubles

August 26 v. Fla, trailing 4-0 in 4th, Barrett pops up on infield.

 

In his other three at bats which I could not locate, he has one more double and a single. Would be happy if someone could find the game situation for those abs.

 

In the 9 abs presented, Barrett's only hits were with the Cubs ahead by 5 or more runs. No hits with the Cubs tied or trailing.

 

the point is not solely that Barrett tends to freeze up with the game on the line; it is also that mindless publication of stats (ie Barrett hitting .364 with bases loaded) do not tell the entire story. Macias, who is a favorite whipping boy on people atthis site, is hitting about .280. Does anyone believe he has really impacted with that average. Of course not, anymore than I believe Barrett is a good clutch hitter just because he has a good average with the bases loaded.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I never said anything about batting average, I posted his entire stat line. I care more about the 1.000 OPS in that situation than his batting average. The Macias comparison isn't valid, his OPS is terrible. As far as Barrett goes, numbers broken down by situations that deem his "clutchness", have no predictive value. They vary wildly from one year to the next in many players. BK's new article, The Importance of Persistence refers to this.

[Tracer Bullet]

I never said anything about batting average, I posted his entire stat line. I care more about the 1.000 OPS in that situation than his batting average. The Macias comparison isn't valid, his OPS is terrible. As far as Barrett goes, numbers broken down by situations that deem his "clutchness", have no predictive value. They vary wildly from one year to the next in many players. BK's new article, The Importance of Persistence refers to this.

 

I totally agree. I don't care what Barrett did in 12 ABs that you picked. I want to see his stats (w/ a relatively large sample size) so I know what to expect of him in the future.

 

But let's assume that Barrett sucks in the 7-10 ABs he has every year when the bases are loaded and the Cubs are tied or losing. Based on those 10 ABs we should get rid of him, even though he has great offensive numbers overall and in most situations? Even if Barrett really is bad with the bases loaded in a close game, I'll take him for the 500 other PAs he has every year where he's a great offensive player (esp for a C).

[Tracer Bullet]

Barrett singles to lead off the 9th w/ the team down 2 - another "meaningless" hit. Damn stat-padder.

If you want to actually watch the game and understand what you are watching instead of cheerleading for a guy you "like" for whatever reason, fine.

 

I'm confused by this. Am I the cheerleader in this situation? I do want to actually watch the game and understand what I am watching...in fact, I do watch the game and understand what I am watching. I'm not sure I understand what you're saying though.

[brfahey]

I never said anything about batting average, I posted his entire stat line. I care more about the 1.000 OPS in that situation than his batting average. The Macias comparison isn't valid, his OPS is terrible. As far as Barrett goes, numbers broken down by situations that deem his "clutchness", have no predictive value. They vary wildly from one year to the next in many players. BK's new article, The Importance of Persistence refers to this.

 

You are so in love with stats it's unbelievable. The situations have great "predictive value" as to how Barrett's going to react in a game situation. All bases loaded situations are not the same. In the examples set forth, Barrett never got a hit when his team was behind. His hits came when the team was well ahead. If you are satisfied with a guy with good looking stats who maintains those stats without really impacting the team in a positive way when they need him the most, so be it. Your stats will give you great solace during playoff time, because this group ain't making it any time soon with their bases-loadeditis.

 

I wonder how all those great players and teams survived in the years before OPS and pitch counts became an end all and be all. You have to have a feel for the game and numbers on a page, while not without use, can't tell you much about intangibles which often make a team a winner.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I never said anything about batting average, I posted his entire stat line. I care more about the 1.000 OPS in that situation than his batting average. The Macias comparison isn't valid, his OPS is terrible. As far as Barrett goes, numbers broken down by situations that deem his "clutchness", have no predictive value. They vary wildly from one year to the next in many players. BK's new article, The Importance of Persistence refers to this.

 

You are so in love with stats it's unbelievable. The situations have great "predictive value" as to how Barrett's going to react in a game situation. All bases loaded situations are not the same. In the examples set forth, Barrett never got a hit when his team was behind. His hits came when the team was well ahead. If you are satisfied with a guy with good looking stats who maintains those stats without really impacting the team in a positive way when they need him the most, so be it. Your stats will give you great solace during playoff time, because this group ain't making it any time soon with their bases-loadeditis.

 

I wonder how all those great players and teams survived in the years before OPS and pitch counts became an end all and be all. You have to have a feel for the game and numbers on a page, while not without use, can't tell you much about intangibles which often make a team a winner.

 

Break them up however you want, people on base, how many outs, what the score is, it doesn't matter. There's no correlation from year to year how players perform situationally. But you could continue to say that it's not something that's measurable so your perceptions could still be justified.