Patterson.....

[NorthsideAvenger]

[-X on Corey Patterson

 

](*,) on the Cubs and their "style of baseball."

 

:roll: to anything Baker/Hendry says in reference to the Cubs playoffs hopes.....Baker future with the club....

 

 

 

But hey....the good news is....the Cardinals are NO LONGER the favorites to EVEN make the World Series, cause their lineup---as is---is very Cubs-like. :lol:

[Elrhino]

Any other player, any other team, and everyone would be all over this underachieving zero. But here, there is still a sizable minority willing to give Patterson more chances and excuses than Carter has pills. I just don't get it.

 

Heck, even the same team ... If the Cubs had traded for Corey Patterson off another team using some career minor leaguers and took on $3 million for this kind of production, the same people would be heading the Corey Patterson Sucks bandwagon. Its because he came up through this system, somehow that trumps objective evaluation. They've followed his box scores through the majors. They went to bed with grandiose dreams. They can't bring themselves to recognize this is a poor man's Preston Wilson. You can make an animated .gif of another player's head poppking out of a toilet and its a riot, but heaven forbid you say the least critical thing about the beloved .270 OBP player who's just trying as hard as he can but them mean ole' Wrigley fans are hurting his wittle, bitty feelings.

 

Corey is the classic toolsy player who doesn't know what to do when his tools can't save him. The only thing he knows how to do is to get more aggressive, depend more on his physical abilities. This is the Moneyball chapter of Billy Beane as a minor league player. There's been a thousand before him, and there will be a thousand after him.

[Larry Horse]

Any other player, any other team, and everyone would be all over this underachieving zero. But here, there is still a sizable minority willing to give Patterson more chances and excuses than Carter has pills. I just don't get it.

 

Heck, even the same team ... If the Cubs had traded for Corey Patterson off another team using some career minor leaguers and took on $3 million for this kind of production, the same people would be heading the Corey Patterson Sucks bandwagon. Its because he came up through this system, somehow that trumps objective evaluation. They've followed his box scores through the majors. They went to bed with grandiose dreams. They can't bring themselves to recognize this is a poor man's Preston Wilson. You can make an animated .gif of another player's head poppking out of a toilet and its a riot, but heaven forbid you say the least critical thing about the beloved .270 OBP player who's just trying as hard as he can but them mean ole' Wrigley fans are hurting his wittle, bitty feelings.

 

Corey is the classic toolsy player who doesn't know what to do when his tools can't save him. The only thing he knows how to do is to get more aggressive, depend more on his physical abilities. This is the Moneyball chapter of Billy Beane as a minor league player. There's been a thousand before him, and there will be a thousand after him.

 

Great post. Hendry hitched his wagon to this guy as the "5 tool" player that would take care of CF for years, and sadly it's not going to be the case. Another overevaluation of a minor league position player. I'm really holding my breath about Pie, who's supposed to be the next great CF'er.

 

And what's up with this "lingering" ankle injury Felix has?

[Chris]

And what's up with this "lingering" ankle injury Felix has?

 

From Ron Potesta on August 12th:

 

Felix sprained his ankle and then developed a bone bruise during his rehab work. He might not play another game in the regular season. Hopefully, he comes back in time for the post-season run...

[cubbyvirus00]

Elrhino wrote:

Quote:

Any other player, any other team, and everyone would be all over this underachieving zero. But here, there is still a sizable minority willing to give Patterson more chances and excuses than Carter has pills. I just don't get it.

 

 

Heck, even the same team ... If the Cubs had traded for Corey Patterson off another team using some career minor leaguers and took on $3 million for this kind of production, the same people would be heading the Corey Patterson Sucks bandwagon. Its because he came up through this system, somehow that trumps objective evaluation. They've followed his box scores through the majors. They went to bed with grandiose dreams. They can't bring themselves to recognize this is a poor man's Preston Wilson. You can make an animated .gif of another player's head poppking out of a toilet and its a riot, but heaven forbid you say the least critical thing about the beloved .270 OBP player who's just trying as hard as he can but them mean ole' Wrigley fans are hurting his wittle, bitty feelings.

 

Corey is the classic toolsy player who doesn't know what to do when his tools can't save him. The only thing he knows how to do is to get more aggressive, depend more on his physical abilities. This is the Moneyball chapter of Billy Beane as a minor league player. There's been a thousand before him, and there will be a thousand after him.

 

Good post. Patterson is indeed frustrating, and hopefully he gets a change of scenery in 06.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Any other player, any other team, and everyone would be all over this underachieving zero. But here, there is still a sizable minority willing to give Patterson more chances and excuses than Carter has pills. I just don't get it.

 

Heck, even the same team ... If the Cubs had traded for Corey Patterson off another team using some career minor leaguers and took on $3 million for this kind of production, the same people would be heading the Corey Patterson Sucks bandwagon. Its because he came up through this system, somehow that trumps objective evaluation. They've followed his box scores through the majors. They went to bed with grandiose dreams. They can't bring themselves to recognize this is a poor man's Preston Wilson. You can make an animated .gif of another player's head poppking out of a toilet and its a riot, but heaven forbid you say the least critical thing about the beloved .270 OBP player who's just trying as hard as he can but them mean ole' Wrigley fans are hurting his wittle, bitty feelings.

 

Yeah, the people who opposed booing Corey didn't say a thing when anyone else got booed, like say, Hawkins. But whatever, it supports your ridiculous caricature of the opposing side I guess.

[Chocolate Milk]

Why can't we talk about Corey? I don't understand why this is such a powder keg. He was a player who had huge hype coming into the Major Leagues and hasn't panned out. Obviously to everyone, he has been absolutely awful this season. It seems like there is lots to talk about.

 

To be honest, it's kind of irritating that people come to these threads posting things to make it seem like it's just cruel and mean to discuss Corey's struggles. It's like I'm some kind of jerk for pointing out how ridiculously awful Corey has been this year and how that effects my favorite team.

 

To be honest, it's just strange. This board is typically gives honest reviews of a player's preformance. With regard to Corey, people just don't want to hear it for whatever reason.

[Chris]

This board is typically gives honest reviews of a player's preformance. With regard to Corey, people just don't want to hear it for whatever reason.

 

It's not that people do not want to hear that he is playing bad, they want it to be a fair review. It's fair to say that he is struggling, but it's unfair to rip Corey for a botched squeeze attempt when it was Prior that messed up the sign.

[dalgreen]

This board is typically gives honest reviews of a player's preformance. With regard to Corey, people just don't want to hear it for whatever reason.

 

It's not that people do not want to hear that he is playing bad, they want it to be a fair review. It's fair to say that he is struggling, but it's unfair to rip Corey for a botched squeeze attempt when it was Prior that messed up the sign.

 

In all fairness, many people on this board have the same faults as Baker--too loyal to some players and criticizing some players while giving leeway to others who make the same mistakes as those who get criticized. People on here blame Perez, Baker, Macias, Hollandsworth, and the other whipping boys of the day for stuff that's not necessarily their fault, but it's not okay in some instances to do it to other players? I used to be one of Patterson's more ardent supporters/defenders. I can no longer defend him against others who want to criticize him even when it's not warranted.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

To be honest, it's kind of irritating that people come to these threads posting things to make it seem like it's just cruel and mean to discuss Corey's struggles. It's like I'm some kind of jerk for pointing out how ridiculously awful Corey has been this year and how that effects my favorite team.

 

I'm genuinely serious, can you give an example of this? I'm not trying to be a jerk, it just seems to me that most people who defend Corey do so when someone has gone overboard in the other direction.

[Chris]

People on here blame Perez, Baker, Macias, Hollandsworth, and the other whipping boys of the day for stuff that's not necessarily their fault, but it's not okay in some instances to do it to other players?

 

I really don't like the "bandwagon" (or BandWGN :wink: ) comments alluding that the site selects certain players to be ripped and makes some players untouchable. Where am I saying that Corey shouldn't be ripped?

 

It's one thing to blame a player for struggling, it's another thing to blame Corey for a messed up squeeze play when Prior screwed up the signs. Again, people can point out all they want that a player is struggling. However, some of this stuff against Corey is really grasping at straws, and the squeeze play is one of them.

[Chocolate Milk]

To be honest, it's kind of irritating that people come to these threads posting things to make it seem like it's just cruel and mean to discuss Corey's struggles. It's like I'm some kind of jerk for pointing out how ridiculously awful Corey has been this year and how that effects my favorite team.

 

I'm genuinely serious, can you give an example of this? I'm not trying to be a jerk, it just seems to me that most people who defend Corey do so when someone has gone overboard in the other direction.

 

Maybe that's the case.

 

I don't want to pull specific examples because I don't want this to turn into a massive flame war. Saying things like "Where are all the Hollandsworth and Burnitz threads if we're going to rag on Corey yet again." "Let's all pile on Corey." "Another one of these threads?"

 

Do any of those statements have anything to do with the topic at hand? Because there aren't Burnitz threads there can't be Corey threads? So we can't say anything negitive about Corey or else it's "Piling on?"

 

If it's just general fatigue over the Corey threads then don't open them.

[dalgreen]

People on here blame Perez, Baker, Macias, Hollandsworth, and the other whipping boys of the day for stuff that's not necessarily their fault, but it's not okay in some instances to do it to other players?

 

I really don't like the "bandwagon" (or BandWGN :wink: ) comments alluding that the site selects certain players to be ripped and makes some players untouchable. Where am I saying that Corey shouldn't be ripped?

 

It's one thing to blame a player for struggling, it's another thing to blame Corey for a messed up squeeze play when Prior screwed up the signs. Again, people can point out all they want that a player is struggling. However, some of this stuff against Corey is really grasping at straws, and the squeeze play is one of them.

 

I wasn't including you in the group. But there are several people on here (not the majority) who will excuse poor play by some while choosing to go overboard with their criticism of some bad play by certain players. Unfortunately, some of the stuff against Patterson is nothing more than people grasping at straws, but you could also say the same thing about those who go overboard in their criticism of others, too.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

To be honest, it's kind of irritating that people come to these threads posting things to make it seem like it's just cruel and mean to discuss Corey's struggles. It's like I'm some kind of jerk for pointing out how ridiculously awful Corey has been this year and how that effects my favorite team.

 

I'm genuinely serious, can you give an example of this? I'm not trying to be a jerk, it just seems to me that most people who defend Corey do so when someone has gone overboard in the other direction.

 

Maybe that's the case.

 

I don't want to pull specific examples because I don't want this to turn into a massive flame war. Saying things like "Where are all the Hollandsworth and Burnitz threads if we're going to rag on Corey yet again." "Let's all pile on Corey." "Another one of these threads?"

 

Do any of those statements have anything to do with the topic at hand? Because there aren't Burnitz threads there can't be Corey threads? So we can't say anything negitive about Corey or else it's "Piling on?"

 

If it's just general fatigue over the Corey threads then don't open them.

 

Okay, I understand what you're saying. The problem is since Corey is such a "powder keg" issue as you say, he invokes a lot of strong feelings one way or the other. One person takes it too far, and then that invokes the strong feelings of the opposition.

 

Personally, I'm at a loss to why Corey has struggled as much as he has this year. He was much better last year with his old, yet flawed swing. I don't know how much the change in his swing, or the coaching he's received, or his attitude/willingness to change play a part in his struggles this year, and I think it's pretty ill-informed to claim to know for certain one way or another. Going forward, I don't know if I'd want Patterson starting in '06, or even on the team in a backup role. Like with several players on the team, we need to see how the offseason shakes out a little bit to determine how we need to address different things. I do know that if it came down to Patterson or Pie, I'd give Patterson CF in a heartbeat, for the simple fact that Pie needs more time to develop plate discipline, especially with his missing time this year. So there's my assessment of Corey, ending with a ridiculously unnecessary run-on sentence.

[dalgreen]

To be honest, it's kind of irritating that people come to these threads posting things to make it seem like it's just cruel and mean to discuss Corey's struggles. It's like I'm some kind of jerk for pointing out how ridiculously awful Corey has been this year and how that effects my favorite team.

 

I'm genuinely serious, can you give an example of this? I'm not trying to be a jerk, it just seems to me that most people who defend Corey do so when someone has gone overboard in the other direction.

 

Maybe that's the case.

 

I don't want to pull specific examples because I don't want this to turn into a massive flame war. Saying things like "Where are all the Hollandsworth and Burnitz threads if we're going to rag on Corey yet again." "Let's all pile on Corey." "Another one of these threads?"

 

Do any of those statements have anything to do with the topic at hand? Because there aren't Burnitz threads there can't be Corey threads? So we can't say anything negitive about Corey or else it's "Piling on?"

 

If it's just general fatigue over the Corey threads then don't open them.

 

Okay, I understand what you're saying. The problem is since Corey is such a "powder keg" issue as you say, he invokes a lot of strong feelings one way or the other. One person takes it too far, and then that invokes the strong feelings of the opposition.

 

Personally, I'm at a loss to why Corey has struggled as much as he has this year. He was much better last year with his old, yet flawed swing. I don't know how much the change in his swing, or the coaching he's received, or his attitude/willingness to change play a part in his struggles this year, and I think it's pretty ill-informed to claim to know for certain one way or another. Going forward, I don't know if I'd want Patterson starting in '06, or even on the team in a backup role. Like with several players on the team, we need to see how the offseason shakes out a little bit to determine how we need to address different things. I do know that if it came down to Patterson or Pie, I'd give Patterson CF in a heartbeat, for the simple fact that Pie needs more time to develop plate discipline, especially with his missing time this year. So there's my assessment of Corey, ending with a ridiculously unnecessary run-on sentence.

 

I would love for Corey to basically start over. I think the Cubs need to treat him now as if he were just a third or fourth year pro player. I think it would be wrong to automatically assume he'll make the 25-man roster, in fact, it might be a good thing to not even count on him making the 25-man roster to start 2006. I always saw he and JD Drew as similar style players. Patterson just needs to be taught when to use his power and when to use his natural line drive stroke. I really think the Cubs let Patterson get by on his talent alone without teaching him skills or the right way to play the game. I would love for him to play winter-ball. I honestly don't think he has baseball "smarts" right now.

[JC]

Just an observation, but Corey has gotten progressively worse for 3 straight years under Baker and his staff's watchful eyes. He showed a brief increase in productivity during his AAA stint, which could be accounted for by the instruction or the opposing talent.

 

I like to think that I try to keep Corey in perspective. The truth is, on my pre-NSBB days on ESPN, I openly advocated to trade Corey for Beltran. That being said, I think he has shown enough ability that the idea of just jettisoning him for trash is absurd. A small part of my distaste for Baker has always been that I didn't think he was good for Corey. I may be wrong, but I think Corey is a mentally fragile player and was done a disservice with his role changing at a fairly constant rate.

[dalgreen]

Just an observation, but Corey has gotten progressively worse for 3 straight years under Baker and his staff's watchful eyes. He showed a brief increase in productivity during his AAA stint, which could be accounted for by the instruction or the opposing talent.

 

I like to think that I try to keep Corey in perspective. The truth is, on my pre-NSBB days on ESPN, I openly advocated to trade Corey for Beltran. That being said, I think he has shown enough ability that the idea of just jettisoning him for trash is absurd. A small part of my distaste for Baker has always been that I didn't think he was good for Corey. I may be wrong, but I think Corey is a mentally fragile player and was done a disservice with his role changing at a fairly constant rate.

 

I agree with everything you've said. I want to bring up one other possibility, he's just another in the long line of overvalued, overrated, whatever the correct term is, prospects that the Cubs have produced. I hope that's not the case because I'm still a fan of his although I can no longer defend his poor play as I did in the past. I've never understood how he was rated as a 5-tool player. I can see 4-tool, but I never thought he had a great arm. Unless a good arm vs. great arm counts in the tool ranking process.

[JonnyRed]

I have officially jumped off the Corey bandwagon. I have tried as hard as I could to give the guy time to develop, but the fact of the matter is that he has regressed considerably the last two years and now even basic fundamentals elude him. I'm not sure what's worse...

 

A) Not being able to execute a squeeze play, leaving Dusty to wonder if he's ever had to do one. Come on, his main asset is his speed, so if he can't run effectively, what good is he.

 

B) Getting picked up on a simple fly ball to LF. How does he not touch 2B on his way back?

 

C) Swinging at the first pitch with the bases loaded over the weekend. It's just common sense to work a good count when it's the pitcher's responsibility to deliver in a pressure situation or walk in a run. Why let them off the hook?

 

What it comes down to with Corey is that he has a world of talent but no head for the game of baseball. It's time to cut our losses and move on. Frankly, I don't even want to see him in the lineup now that JHJ is back because he doesn't deserve it.

[JonnyRed]

Just an observation, but Corey has gotten progressively worse for 3 straight years under Baker and his staff's watchful eyes. He showed a brief increase in productivity during his AAA stint, which could be accounted for by the instruction or the opposing talent.

 

I like to think that I try to keep Corey in perspective. The truth is, on my pre-NSBB days on ESPN, I openly advocated to trade Corey for Beltran. That being said, I think he has shown enough ability that the idea of just jettisoning him for trash is absurd. A small part of my distaste for Baker has always been that I didn't think he was good for Corey. I may be wrong, but I think Corey is a mentally fragile player and was done a disservice with his role changing at a fairly constant rate.

 

I agree that Dusty and the staff could certainly be coaching Corey more effectively, but there are basic fundamentals in baseball that Corey should already know when he gets to the majors. That's not Dusty's fault.