Realstic look at 2006+

[erik316wttn]

I agree with Tim. Burnett and Giles have to be 1 and 1A in the FA market. Burnett has to be looked at simply because he's by far the most talented free agent on the market.

 

As I said in another thread, I would seriously bring back mostly the same starters and strengthen the bench and bullpen. I'd try to bring back Lawton, Nomar, Williamson, Walker, and Dempster. I probably wouldn't offer Lawton arbitration, because he'd probably accept and get over $8M and probably wouldn't be a top A. But I'd try to sign him to a 2-year, $10-12M deal. I'd offer Nomar $4-5M plus incentives to come back. Cedeno becomes the backup SS (getting time if Nomar gets hurt) and 2B (getting time against LHPs).

 

I'd look to add 2 relief arms, 1 lefty, 1 righty. I would look to trade for a young arm with one of those moves, and maybe sign a guy like Wickman for the other. Then I'd add some high OBP, versatile guys to the bench.

 

Are you listening, Jim Hendry? This man knows what he's talking about.

 

I'm torn on Giles - he's definitely past his prime and it would just feel too much like picking up one of those guys who ends his career playing below average baseball, but if you can sign him to a short term contract that isn't too excessive I guess I'd do it.

 

I would have no problem with Burnett, but I honestly believe since it's such a thin free agent market and there are so many teams with money who will be looking to bolster their pitching that we'd end up severely overpaying for him - I just have to believe some team out there will "sign him at all costs" and make him rich and I don't know that I want that to be the Cubs.

 

I'd be ok with a 2-year deal for Giles. No more than 3, though.

[rawaction]

I agree with Tim. Burnett and Giles have to be 1 and 1A in the FA market. Burnett has to be looked at simply because he's by far the most talented free agent on the market.

 

As I said in another thread, I would seriously bring back mostly the same starters and strengthen the bench and bullpen. I'd try to bring back Lawton, Nomar, Williamson, Walker, and Dempster. I probably wouldn't offer Lawton arbitration, because he'd probably accept and get over $8M and probably wouldn't be a top A. But I'd try to sign him to a 2-year, $10-12M deal. I'd offer Nomar $4-5M plus incentives to come back. Cedeno becomes the backup SS (getting time if Nomar gets hurt) and 2B (getting time against LHPs).

 

I'd look to add 2 relief arms, 1 lefty, 1 righty. I would look to trade for a young arm with one of those moves, and maybe sign a guy like Wickman for the other. Then I'd add some high OBP, versatile guys to the bench.

 

Are you listening, Jim Hendry? This man knows what he's talking about.

 

I'm torn on Giles - he's definitely past his prime and it would just feel too much like picking up one of those guys who ends his career playing below average baseball, but if you can sign him to a short term contract that isn't too excessive I guess I'd do it.

 

I would have no problem with Burnett, but I honestly believe since it's such a thin free agent market and there are so many teams with money who will be looking to bolster their pitching that we'd end up severely overpaying for him - I just have to believe some team out there will "sign him at all costs" and make him rich and I don't know that I want that to be the Cubs.

 

I'd be ok with a 2-year deal for Giles. No more than 3, though.

 

Yeah, I'd go 3 with Giles at the most. In the next 3 years, I expect at worst, a pretty good year (.950 OPS), a solid year (low .900s OPS), and a mediocre year (.850ish OPS). He'll get on base 40% of the time regardless if he can continue to be a .300 hitter or not.

[frostwyrm]

We definitely need to take away Dusty's broken toys on the bench. Any bad choices of bench players often become disastrous on a Dusty Baker team.

[Larry Horse]

NO MORE NOMAR !!!!! What a big name, non-factor. Thank God they acquired him, because those 70 games he's played have been huge.

 

Here's an idea: Cedeno at SS. Give it to him in ST. For the love of God, would it kill the Cubs to have some younger players starting every day? This isn't some sort of dynasty we're talking about here.....IT'S THE CUBS!!!!!!! How about mixing things up a little with some youth? 2008 is coming pretty fast, and the same old, same old is getting, well, old. I realize with the current manager, this may be tough, just wishful thinking.

 

Cedeno, Lee, Ramirez and Barrett. The other 4 positions can be up for grabs . I'm sick of looking at this band of underachievers.

[erik316wttn]

NO MORE NOMAR !!!!! What a big name, non-factor. Thank God they acquired him, because those 70 games he's played have been huge.

 

Here's an idea: Cedeno at SS. Give it to him in ST. For the love of God, would it kill the Cubs to have some younger players starting every day? This isn't some sort of dynasty we're talking about here.....IT'S THE CUBS!!!!!!! How about mixing things up a little with some youth? 2008 is coming pretty fast, and the same old, same old is getting, well, old. I realize with the current manager, this may be tough, just wishful thinking.

 

Cedeno, Lee, Ramirez and Barrett. The other 4 positions can be up for grabs . I'm sick of looking at this band of underachievers.

 

If I didn't have such man-love for Nomar I'd agree with you. I'd say give him one more year and he's gone regardless, unless he just is otherworldly next year. You'll probably get 130 games out of him at the max, so that would be 30 starts for Cedeno at the least, and he can spell Walker too, so that's maybe another 15-20 at the minimum, with him being the starter should either one go on the DL.

 

But then Cedeno should be the starting shortstop in 2007 regardless. Murton should be starting in left (starting in right if we sign Giles), trade Corey, have Lawton in center.

[frostwyrm]

I'm torn on resigning Nomar. He just seems like a type of player that the organization should stop relying on. It's a real shame we still have no idea what Cedeno can do at the MLB level. If he had shown any flashes I would advocate letting Nomar go.

[rawaction]

I'm torn on resigning Nomar. He just seems like a type of player that the organization should stop relying on. It's a real shame we still have no idea what Cedeno can do at the MLB level. If he had shown any flashes I would advocate letting Nomar go.

 

The way I see it is there isn't much FA wise in the OF. If the Cubs aren't gonna get 2 OFs this offseason (not likely), they need major production at SS. I'd love for them to get Dunn, keep Lawton (or similar high OBP player), and start Cedeno at SS (although, I'd love to trade for Lugo); but I don't see that as likely.

[CubfaninCA]

I agree with Tim. Burnett and Giles have to be 1 and 1A in the FA market. Burnett has to be looked at simply because he's by far the most talented free agent on the market.

 

As I said in another thread, I would seriously bring back mostly the same starters and strengthen the bench and bullpen. I'd try to bring back Lawton, Nomar, Williamson, Walker, and Dempster. I probably wouldn't offer Lawton arbitration, because he'd probably accept and get over $8M and probably wouldn't be a top A. But I'd try to sign him to a 2-year, $10-12M deal. I'd offer Nomar $4-5M plus incentives to come back. Cedeno becomes the backup SS (getting time if Nomar gets hurt) and 2B (getting time against LHPs).

 

I'd look to add 2 relief arms, 1 lefty, 1 righty. I would look to trade for a young arm with one of those moves, and maybe sign a guy like Wickman for the other. Then I'd add some high OBP, versatile guys to the bench.

 

Are you listening, Jim Hendry? This man knows what he's talking about.

 

I'm torn on Giles - he's definitely past his prime and it would just feel too much like picking up one of those guys who ends his career playing below average baseball, but if you can sign him to a short term contract that isn't too excessive I guess I'd do it.

 

I would have no problem with Burnett, but I honestly believe since it's such a thin free agent market and there are so many teams with money who will be looking to bolster their pitching that we'd end up severely overpaying for him - I just have to believe some team out there will "sign him at all costs" and make him rich and I don't know that I want that to be the Cubs.

 

Bingo about Burnett. Too much demand. Too little supply. Only way he becomes affordable is if SF doesn't pick up Schmidt's option and St. Louis doesn't pick up Mulder's option. Suks that St. L signed Carpenter to an extension.

[Cubzfan64]

I don't know what other team's situations are at the SS position, but considering what Nomar has/has not done in the last 2 seasons I just don't see anyone offering him much in the way of $ or years - if he's interested in staying with Chicago, I give him a lowball salary of 2-3 mil with a bunch of incentives that could take him up to 5-6 or something along those lines.

 

As much as I hate to say it, keep Neifi as your backup and give Cedeno as much playing time as possible down in Iowa.

 

In this case, if we get production out of Nomar it's a plus and he earns his money - if we don't, we're out very little in the form of $ and if Cedeno is ready to go he becomes our #1 SS with Neifi still as backup.

 

The 2 keys to this are 1) Cedeno keeps progressing & 2) Hendry (or whoever) behind the scenes demands that Cedeno takes over at SS if Nomar gets hurt - Neifi is a backup SS for this team and that's it.

 

How likely are any of these things to happen? Probably not very if Baker is still managing the team, but with the other options likely available for SS, and if Nomar is willing to be signed to an incentive laden contract like that I say we have little to lose and a lot to gain.

[CarolinaCubFan]

If the Yanks don't make the playoffs, I go hard after Arod. Maybe a 3-way with Texas?

 

Could you build a contender around an infield of Lee, Arod, and Aram with the 06 FA market?

 

Yankees will not trade Arod unless getting back more than he is worth. He's in Jeter's generation, so they will want to keep Arod to solidify their future playoff runs.

 

I also have concerns whether Arod can resume playing shortstop. He seems to have put on some wieght playing third and his mobility seems to have tailed off a little. He used to be among the best at defensive shortstop, but 2 years at third may have diminished his skills.

 

1. The Yanks may not may the playoffs, never underestimate George. They have the same FA market to choose from as we do, and they don't have many tradeable contracts.

 

2. I don't buy Jeter and Arod being best of buds.

 

3. It's the Yankees.

 

I understand your concerns about Arod going back to SS, but he's 30 years old. He fits right in the same age group as Lee and Aram. Prior and Zambrano aren't going to get any younger or cheaper, I think Hendry needs to focus on the next 5 years and we'll go from there.

[wastra]

I think you have to try to get Nomar back. Last year was the year to find a shortstop replacement, not this one. I say $4-5MM base salary with incentives to get him to $7-8 for one year, maybe with a 1-year option.

 

I dont' know about geting Giles. Again, I hate to think we'd be throwing money at another Moises Alou- a guy who would've been unreal for us...4 years earlier. He'd look good in 2006, but in 2007 and 2008 does he become another Sosa/Alou/Maddux etc where his production seriously lags his pay?

 

But, obviously, we need to find a real bat- a big Bat, actually two of them. And there are only so many bats available this offseason.

 

It's for that reason I want Nomar back. Assuming he can stay healthy (might be a BIG assumption), at worst he's probably a .290-.305 hitter with an .800+ OPS. At best, he's a .320 hitter with 15-25 homers or more. IF we can land two studs to play the corner outfield, I would like to see Cedeno at short. But I have a feeling we'll be having only one addition to the offense- RF. the rest will be a return of our current lineup. In that situation, you have to try to find offense in non-offensive positions.

 

Either way, cedeno is on this team. I can't imagine Dusty wouldn't give Nomar lots of rest, and Walker needs rest againstl eftieso n occassion as well. ronny could get lots of action. And can he play any third? Aramis is not exactly a bastion of health. I'd rather see Cedeno getting starts at thrid on occassion than Fontenot -at this point- if he can handle it defensively.

 

Lawton

Walker

Lee

Giles

Ramirez

Nomar

Barrett

Patterson

 

Bench:

Murton

Cedeno

Fontenot

Blanco

New Outfielder (or greenburg)

Hairston

[frostwyrm]

We could use a supersub type guy to spell Lee and Ramirez and Burnitz if he returns. These guys seem to have worn down and really should have had more days off.

[Fro]

Considering our track record with position players, I definitely wouldn't start Cedeno and Fontenot next year. There is no way possible that Cedeno plays better than a healthy Nomar.

 

Murton should get a shot but he doesn't have the power numbers you need in a corner OF (plus he seems to be falling back to earth). Pie needs to stay in the minors until he learns how to take a walk, otherwise he'll be Corey Patterson with some more power.

 

Heck, according to this board, Choi, Dubois, and Bobby Hill were "can't miss" prospects.

 

Starting 3-4 farm system players would be throwing away 2006. This team has enough trouble scoring runs as it is, and with Lee likely regressing from his career year it would be a long season since some of you want to start an OF of Murton/Pie/Patterson and Cedeno/Fontenot in the IF.

[JC]

 

Heck, according to this board, Choi, Dubois, and Bobby Hill were "can't miss" prospects.

 

Are you saying this was a board sanctioned conclusion? Otherwise, I'd really like to know which posters said Choi, Dubois and Bobby Hill were "can't miss" prospects. I don't recall anyone making such bold claims. Expressing confidence that players can succeed based on their minor league numbers doesn't equate to calling them "can't miss" prospects. Arguing for them to receive playing time over other players doesn't fill the bill either.

[10man]

Heck, according to this board, Choi, Dubois, and Bobby Hill were "can't miss" prospects.

Are you saying this was a board sanctioned conclusion? Otherwise, I'd really like to know which posters said Choi, Dubois and Bobby Hill were "can't miss" prospects. I don't recall anyone making such bold claims. Expressing confidence that players can succeed based on their minor league numbers doesn't equate to calling them "can't miss" prospects. Arguing for them to receive playing time over other players doesn't fill the bill either.

All most of us ever wanted was to have the hot hand played over the veteran who was stinking up the joint and for a good portion of the time, the hot hands were the rookies.

[erik316wttn]

Considering our track record with position players, I definitely wouldn't start Cedeno and Fontenot next year. There is no way possible that Cedeno plays better than a healthy Nomar.

 

Murton should get a shot but he doesn't have the power numbers you need in a corner OF (plus he seems to be falling back to earth). Pie needs to stay in the minors until he learns how to take a walk, otherwise he'll be Corey Patterson with some more power.

 

Heck, according to this board, Choi, Dubois, and Bobby Hill were "can't miss" prospects.

 

Starting 3-4 farm system players would be throwing away 2006. This team has enough trouble scoring runs as it is, and with Lee likely regressing from his career year it would be a long season since some of you want to start an OF of Murton/Pie/Patterson and Cedeno/Fontenot in the IF.

 

Mark Grace wasn't really a power hitter either. I think he did ok for us.

 

It doesn't matter if he doesn't hit 30+ home runs. There are other guys on this team to pick up the power slack. And I'd rather have a guy with a high OBP than a guy who will hit a lot of homers. Murton is just fine.

[frostwyrm]

All these decisions would be a helluva lot easier if Murton and Cedeno had gotten a real audition. It's still not too late for Murton. We just need to move Lawton or Burnitz. Cedeno will unfortunately remain a question mark next spring.

[Cubzfan64]

I think you have to try to get Nomar back. Last year was the year to find a shortstop replacement, not this one. I say $4-5MM base salary with incentives to get him to $7-8 for one year, maybe with a 1-year option.

 

I dont' know about geting Giles. Again, I hate to think we'd be throwing money at another Moises Alou- a guy who would've been unreal for us...4 years earlier. He'd look good in 2006, but in 2007 and 2008 does he become another Sosa/Alou/Maddux etc where his production seriously lags his pay?

 

But, obviously, we need to find a real bat- a big Bat, actually two of them. And there are only so many bats available this offseason.

 

It's for that reason I want Nomar back. Assuming he can stay healthy (might be a BIG assumption), at worst he's probably a .290-.305 hitter with an .800+ OPS. At best, he's a .320 hitter with 15-25 homers or more. IF we can land two studs to play the corner outfield, I would like to see Cedeno at short. But I have a feeling we'll be having only one addition to the offense- RF. the rest will be a return of our current lineup. In that situation, you have to try to find offense in non-offensive positions.

 

Either way, cedeno is on this team. I can't imagine Dusty wouldn't give Nomar lots of rest, and Walker needs rest againstl eftieso n occassion as well. ronny could get lots of action. And can he play any third? Aramis is not exactly a bastion of health. I'd rather see Cedeno getting starts at thrid on occassion than Fontenot -at this point- if he can handle it defensively.

 

Lawton

Walker

Lee

Giles

Ramirez

Nomar

Barrett

Patterson

 

Bench:

Murton

Cedeno

Fontenot

Blanco

New Outfielder (or greenburg)

Hairston

 

See the highlighted comment above - One thing I would REALLY like to see the Cubs do is set up a conditioning program for Aramis that involves alot of flexibility/stretching. This is two seasons in a row where he's had leg problems - I'd like to see him get those kinks knocked out in the offseason if at all possible.

[JeffH]

Just say no to Nomar.

 

At this point, he's nothing more than an acceptable complementary player.

 

Unfortunately, he plays a position where he have a good, cheap guy ready to plug in.

[YearofDaCubs]

We might have to find one of our future OFs through trade. I just dont see that many options this off-season. And no thank you to Burnitz and his overpriced option.

[tspain]

I worked on this during the morning, and got on to post this, and found this thread already going strong. So I will just add my part to this thread. This is what I would like to see for 2006. And want to know if you think it is feasible, I think it is, and it would be "going for it" in 2006.

 

Sign Brian Giles to 2 year $12 million deal.

 

Sign A J Burnett to 5 year $60 million deal.

 

Trade Matt Murton, Rich Hill, Jerome Williams to Reds for Adam Dunn. I would definitely add a couple lower minor leaguers if need be to make this deal happen.

 

Trade Corey Patterson, Ronny Cedeno, Sergio Mitre to Seattle for their closer Eddie G.

 

LINE UP

 

Lawton

 

Walker

 

Lee

 

Dunn

 

Ramirez

 

Giles

 

Nomar

 

Barrett

 

 

STARTING PITCHERS

 

Wood

 

Prior

 

Zambrano

 

Burnett

 

Maddux

 

 

BULL PEN

 

Eddie G.

 

Dempster

 

Rusch-can start in case of a injury which is sure to come.

 

Ohman

 

Wuerst

 

Williamson

 

Novoa

 

 

I hate trading the kids, but I want to go for it next season, and this is definitely going for it next season.

[JeffH]

Sign Brian Giles to 2 year $12 million deal.

 

Completely unfeasible in every sense of the word.

 

Sign A J Burnett to 5 year $60 million deal.

 

Feasible, but risky.

 

Trade Matt Murton, Rich Hill, Jerome Williams to Reds for Adam Dunn. I would definitely add a couple lower minor leaguers if need be to make this deal happen.

 

Even less feasible than the Giles idea, if that's possible.

 

Trade Corey Patterson, Ronny Cedeno, Sergio Mitre to Seattle for their closer Eddie G.

 

Feasible, but foolish.

[CubfaninCA]

Giles will sign for more than 2 and 12, and Dunn will not be traded to the Chicago. Time to move on.

 

Guys who the Cubs could possibly get are Manny, Griffey and Soriano. Long shot - ARod. No shot - Dunn.

[CarolinaCubFan]

Giles will sign for more than 2 and 12, and Dunn will not be traded to the Chicago. Time to move on.

 

Guys who the Cubs could possibly get are Manny, Griffey and Soriano. Long shot - ARod. No shot - Dunn.

 

I agree, Giles will be one of the premier FA's this offseason, somebody will overpay. Dunn would be nice, but I can't see Cincy doing it. If we are going to trade good talent, lets make it worth it. Arod makes sense for us, long shot? The Cubs winning a World Series is a long shot, the Tribune owes the fans.

[minnesotacubsfan]

I worked on this during the morning, and got on to post this, and found this thread already going strong. So I will just add my part to this thread. This is what I would like to see for 2006. And want to know if you think it is feasible, I think it is, and it would be "going for it" in 2006.

 

Sign Brian Giles to 2 year $12 million deal.

 

Sign A J Burnett to 5 year $60 million deal.

 

Trade Matt Murton, Rich Hill, Jerome Williams to Reds for Adam Dunn. I would definitely add a couple lower minor leaguers if need be to make this deal happen.

 

Trade Corey Patterson, Ronny Cedeno, Sergio Mitre to Seattle for their closer Eddie G.

 

 

 

I hate trading the kids, but I want to go for it next season, and this is definitely going for it next season.

 

I think you are giving up WAY too much for Eddie G when I honestly feel Demp could out pitch him in the closer role..

 

Eddie is like 35 yrs old...Seattle would have to give me Eddie+Winn just to get one of Cpatt or Cendeno