Expand the League and Kill the Wildcard?

[Derwood]

Tim made mention (in another thread) of his desire to see the wildcard go away and move to an NFL-style 4 division format. The league would have to be expanded by 2 teams, then each of the 4 division winners in each league would enter the playoffs. The only way to get into the post season is to win your division.

 

So, in our hypothetical world, how could this play out? Some facts:

 

- The NL has 16 teams and the AL has 14. Either 2 teams need to be added to the AL, or a team has to move from the NL to the AL, then one expansion franchise added to each league.

 

- The largest media markets without teams (from largest to smallest) are Sacramento, Orlando, Portland, Indianapolis, Hartford/New Haven and Charlotte. Some even smaller markets include New Orleans, Las Vegas and Nashville.

 

- Arizona was "promised" that they could move to the AL at the first opportunity when they entered the league. They have always wanted to be in the AL (or did for a long time. Maybe they've grown accustomed to the NL West now).

 

- The NFL's North/South/East/West divisional system is consistent and cool. The NHL's Northeast/Pacific/Slighty Southwest of North Central system is lame. Baseball is too steeped in tradition to move to an East/West league format like the NBA.

 

 

So let's assume Arizona would move to the AL, and we go with an NFL style divisional format. I would place the teams like this:

 

National League
---------------

EAST
----
NY Mets
Philadelphia Phillies
Pittsburgh Pirates
Washington Nationals

NORTH
-----
Chicago Cubs
Milwaukee Brewers
St. Louis Cardinals
Cincinatti Reds

WEST
----
Colorado Rockies
LA Dodgers
San Diego Padres
San Francisco Giants

SOUTH
-----
Atlanta Braves
Florida Marlins
Houston Astros
??????

 

Yes, geographically you could put St. Louis in the south, but you would have to weigh whether the Houston/STL rivalry or the Chicago/STL rivalry was stronger. I vote for the latter. Some would argue about splitting ATL away from the Mets and Phillies, but they made the same argument when they took them out of the NL West.

 

American League
---------------

EAST
----
NY Yankees
Boston Red Sox
Baltimore Orioles
Toronto Blue Jays

NORTH
-----
Chicago White Sox
Detroit Tigers
Cleveland Indians
Minnesota Twins

WEST
----
Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim, Orange County, California
Oakland A's
Seattle Mariners
Arizona Diamondbacks

SOUTH
-----
Texas Rangers
Tampa Bay Devil Rays
Kansas City Royals
??????

 

Here, the South is comprised of three teams from three different divisions plus an expansion team. Weird, but I don't think any of those teams have a strong enough rivalry with anyone to warrant anything but geographical placement.

 

Now, since my divisional alignments both have holes in the South Divisions, we can eliminate Hartford/New Haven, Portland, Indianapolis and Sacramento from the running. New Orleans, Charlotte and Nashville are all small markets, but have proven that they can support multiple major sports franchises. Charlotte might suffer from being too close to the Baltimore/Washington teams, so we'll eliminate them. So then it's New Orleans or Nashville. I know Vegas would be a popular city for fans, but they just aren't big enough, and sports would always be secondary to the gambling/tourism in that town. Plus putting a sports franchise in the mecca of gambling probably isn't a great idea.

 

So let's put New Orleans in the NL South and Nashville in the AL South and call it a league!

[EricG]

I liked his idea of adding another New York team. You could call them the New York Knights.

[CuseCubFan69]

My question is how do you stop a 79-83 team from winning one of the 4 divisions? I don't think it's fair that a second place team could win 100 games and not go to the playoffs while the 79 win team does.

[J.R.]

I like the Wild Cards, they keep interest going in many markets late into September every year. It would be pretty sad heading into the home stretch with all eight playoff teams already decided.

[katway]

While the NFL does have more divisions, they still maintain a wildcard format. I like the wildcard format and wouldn't want to eliminate it. I think the wildcard helps to maintain fan interest in teams that are not running away with their division and also gives hope to talented teams stuck behind equally talented teams as CuseCubFan69 pointed out.

[EricG]

how 'bout 4 division winners (2 get byes) , 2 wild cards and another round of playoffs just like the NFL.

[Derwood]

My question is how do you stop a 79-83 team from winning one of the 4 divisions? I don't think it's fair that a second place team could win 100 games and not go to the playoffs while the 79 win team does.

 

How is that any different than all 5 NL East teams currently having better records than the NL West leading Padres?

[CDBears1259]

New Orleans sounds like a great idea to me, being as that I live in Louisiana and need another team nearby that I can cheer for against the Astros. Having lived in Houston and being a native of LA that would be awesome. It would also mean I wouldn't have to go to Houston to see the Cubs play. I absolutely hate having to go to games there to see the Cubs.

While not entirely wrong, I believe your premise that they have shown the ability to support pro teams is being stretched to the limit. I don't think the N.O. economy would be able to support another pro franchise as they barely can or don't choose to support the 2 they have. The Saints are entrenched in the fabric of the community, yet are continually rumored to be on the move (people are beginning to get fed up with the financial responsibility of the state to the team) especially after viewing the product put on the field and the Hornets have been struggling on the court as well as at the box office (how bad though I don't know). I don't think the economy of the greater N.O. area, much less the state would be as willing a participant in such a venture as you might think.

Edited August 8, 2005 by CDBears1259

[EricG]

I vote San Jose and New York (only if they call them The Knights).

[Derwood]

You don't lose any playoff berths with this format, so what's the big deal with losing the wildcard? I know it would mean an either/or situation with the Cubs and Cardinals, but that is bound to happen in the current system as well. I don't favor expanding the playoffs at all.

[CuseCubFan69]

I'm a traditionalist and I'd love to see some teams contracted or added and just two leagues AL and NL and one division in each. They play each other the same amount of times and the top 4 teams go. This gaurantees the top teams will go to the playoffs.

 

Stl 70-41

Atlanta 64-48

Houston 60-51

Florida 57-52

Wash 58-53

Phil 58-53

Mets 57-54

SD 56-55

Mil 56-56

Cubs 54-57

Ariz 54-59

LA 50-61

Cin 49-62

SF 48-62

Pitt 47-65

Colorado 41-69

 

Florida @ Stl and Houston @ Atlanta

[CuseCubFan69]

My question is how do you stop a 79-83 team from winning one of the 4 divisions? I don't think it's fair that a second place team could win 100 games and not go to the playoffs while the 79 win team does.

 

How is that any different than all 5 NL East teams currently having better records than the NL West leading Padres?

 

It isn't as I don't like the way they do it now either.

[Derwood]

I'm a traditionalist and I'd love to see some teams contracted or added and just two leagues AL and NL and one division in each. They play each other the same amount of times and the top 4 teams go. This gaurantees the top teams will go to the playoffs.

 

Stl 70-41

Atlanta 64-48

Houston 60-51

Florida 57-52

Wash 58-53

Phil 58-53

Mets 57-54

SD 56-55

Mil 56-56

Cubs 54-57

Ariz 54-59

LA 50-61

Cin 49-62

SF 48-62

Pitt 47-65

Colorado 41-69

 

Florida @ Stl and Houston @ Atlanta

 

That would never happen, mostly because it would eliminate geographical rivalries. I'm not sure I would want to watch a "free for all" league race.

[Outshined_One]

how 'bout 4 division winners (2 get byes) , 2 wild cards and another round of playoffs just like the NFL.

 

The problem with the baseball playoffs is that they already go on for much longer than most casual fans can tolerate. The NFL can at least get away with it since it's a single elimination format system. Take a look at basketball and hockey. Most people don't become interested in those playoffs because they go on for too long. Also, the regular season would be pretty much useless given the number of playoff teams.

 

I like this new format. Smaller divisions would mean much stronger and more spirited competition between the teams in those divisions. Most of the big rivalries would be kept intact and the new ones would be interesting, to say the least.

[CuseCubFan69]

I'm a traditionalist and I'd love to see some teams contracted or added and just two leagues AL and NL and one division in each. They play each other the same amount of times and the top 4 teams go. This gaurantees the top teams will go to the playoffs.

 

Stl 70-41

Atlanta 64-48

Houston 60-51

Florida 57-52

Wash 58-53

Phil 58-53

Mets 57-54

SD 56-55

Mil 56-56

Cubs 54-57

Ariz 54-59

LA 50-61

Cin 49-62

SF 48-62

Pitt 47-65

Colorado 41-69

 

Florida @ Stl and Houston @ Atlanta

 

 

 

That would never happen, mostly because it would eliminate geographical rivalries. I'm not sure I would want to watch a "free for all" league race.

 

I'd have the rivalry weekend and the last 3 games of the year would be rivals. Just imagine the Cubs and Cards the last 3 games of the year every year. Also, Pitt would play Phil in the rivalry too unlike now.

[Derwood]

Also, Pitt would play Phil in the rivalry too unlike now.

 

My divisional alignment has the Phils and Pirates in the NL East, so they would in fact be rivals.

[gus_dog]

So, what about this alignment?

 

AL East

Boston

New York

Baltimore

Toronto

 

AL North

Chicago

Minnesota

Cleveland

Detroit

 

AL South

Tampa Bay

Kansas City

Texas

New Orleans?

 

AL West

Los Angeles

Oakland

Seattle

Las Vegas??

 

NL East

Washington

New York

Philadelphia

Pittsburgh

 

NL South

Florida

Atlanta

Houston

Cincinnati

 

NL North

St. Louis

Chicago

Milwaukee

Colorado

 

NL West

San Diego

Arizona

Los Angeles

San Francisco

[CubinNY]

I like your idea except I would put the Marlins and the D-Rays in the same division. Florida baseball, if it is to survive, needs to have a natural rivialry. So put the Marlins in the AL South. In additon I would move the Blue Jays to the NL East and add Nashville in the NL South. In the AL I would move Arizona to the AL west and Add New Orleans to the AL South. I would also move the Tigers to the AL East. Finally I would shorten the season by 20 games and add another teir to the playoffs by having two Wild Card teams

 

NL East

 

NY, Pitt, Phil, Toronto

 

NL North

 

Cubs, Stl, Cin, Mill

 

NL West

 

LA, SD, SF, Col

 

NL South

 

Hou, Atl, Wash, Nashville

 

AL East

 

Bos, NY, Bal, Det

 

AL North

 

Sox, Cle, Min, KC

 

AL West

 

Ariz, Sea, LAAAAA, Oak

 

AL South

 

New Orleans, FL, TB, TX

[Derwood]

I like your idea except I would put the Marlins and the D-Rays in the same division. Florida baseball, if it is to survive, needs to have a natural rivialry. So put the Marlins in the AL South. In additon I would move the Blue Jays to the NL East and add Nashville in the NL South. In the AL I would move Arizona to the AL west and Add New Orleans to the AL South. I would also move the Tigers to the AL East. Finally I would shorten the season by 20 games and add another teir to the playoffs by having two Wild Card teams

 

NL East

 

NY, Pitt, Phil, Toronto

 

NL North

 

Cubs, Stl, Cin, Mill

 

NL West

 

LA, SD, SF, Col

 

NL South

 

Hou, Atl, Wash, Nashville

 

AL East

 

Bos, NY, Bal, Det

 

AL North

 

Sox, Cle, Min, KC

 

AL West

 

Ariz, Sea, LAAAAA, Oak

 

AL South

 

New Orleans, FL, TB, TX

 

interesting, but a tough sell to baseball purists. That much league switching just wouldn't fly. But it's a fresh new look for sure.

[ConstableRabbit]

how 'bout 4 division winners (2 get byes) , 2 wild cards and another round of playoffs just like the NFL.

 

I don't like the idea of extending the season. It's already 162 games long, plus the playoffs which run into October. Baseball players have the shortest offseason of any major sport as it is. I think you would either have to shorten the regular season or start it earlier, and I don't see either happening. And while I'd love to see more teams playing, (such as the Phillies, who always seem to be in the running but just can't get there) I think it's kind of unrealistic as now.

 

Another reason why I would prefer to keep an 8 team playoffs is because I like how baseball remains a pretty elite system. It has the fewest teams in the playoffs (unlike basketball and hockey where it seems like everyone gets in) and I would say that it's the major sport with the most difficult hall of fame.

 

Why are we proposing going through the hassle of changing the system? Does it have huge faults that I'm not thinking of?

[UK1679666180]

Cut it down to 24 teams... 6 in each division and go from there.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

My crackpot theory:

 

Move a team into the AL, 6-5 team divisions(KC to the AL West, Milwaukee back to the AL Central?). Same playoff format.

 

Here's the big one: abolish the DH, and play an unbalanced schedule against EVERYBODY. For example the Cubs would play every AL team 3 times, every NL East and West team 6 times, and every NL Central team 14 times.

[EricG]

here is a similar thread I started last year (link)

my idea was to have 6 five team divisions

[bhogg]

I'm a traditionalist and I'd love to see some teams contracted or added and just two leagues AL and NL and one division in each. They play each other the same amount of times and the top 4 teams go. This gaurantees the top teams will go to the playoffs.

 

Stl 70-41

Atlanta 64-48

Houston 60-51

Florida 57-52

Wash 58-53

Phil 58-53

Mets 57-54

SD 56-55

Mil 56-56

Cubs 54-57

Ariz 54-59

LA 50-61

Cin 49-62

SF 48-62

Pitt 47-65

Colorado 41-69

 

Florida @ Stl and Houston @ Atlanta

 

 

I'm with you, dude.

 

Contract some teams and get rid of the wild card.

 

There was nothing wrong with the system pre 94. Oh, boo hoo hoo, the Giants won 103 games and didnt make the play offs. Cry me a river.

 

In recent years, the only pennant race has been the race for the wild card.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I personally don't think New Orleans could support a baseball team. They have enough of a time selling out for the Saints. For New Orleans to get a team, they would need tax help from the entire state and the legislators from the northern part of the state wouldn't go for it.

 

I like the idea of an eight division format. I think New Jersey is the best place for one of the teams. Portland or Las Vegas is probably the ideal spot for the other one.