Is Hill one of those that the Cubs saw as too good?

[cubweiser03]

I dont think Hill was as bad as his stat line indicated last night. The hits he gave up were a lot of bloopers or infield singles. I thought the mets were clearly sitting on the curve ball (see cliff floyd). Going to majors for hill has shown the limits of his fastball. MLB players arent afraid of 89-90 mph fastball, they can react to that and then sit on his curve, this i think is why he isnt getting as many ks as the minors. If he can improve on the fastball with location or movement (velocity likely wont happen) he can still be a good player. Using a changeup would probaly help too. Im not giving up on him yet.

[SouthSideRyan]

all teams have successes and busts but it seems like ours hangs on to all of them until they are no longer worth anything. one of the main positives about having a greta fram system is that you can trade some of them for proven talent. never more true than now, with today's financial situation you hav e 10 teams that are more than willling to regularly sell their high priced talent for promising prospects.

a great example, the phils traded brandon duckworth for billy wagner. duckworth has not sniffed the rotation depite all the injuries to the staff last year. how many pitching prospects did we have that were of equal value to duckworth?

 

Taylor Bucholz was the big part of the Wagner trade, and he's still a pretty decent prospect I believe.

[Outshined_One]

His value was absolutely enormous at the all-star break. He was rumored to be one of the key guys in a Dunn or Kearns deal but Jimbo held off cause he liked Hill to much. Obviously, a little to early to tell, but that will probably be a very large mistake in hindsight.

 

I would not be surprised if teams were enamored of Hill at the trade deadline. However, from many of the reports I've heard about the Reds, they were trying to hold teams for ransom with Kearns, Dunn, and Pena. It's not like the Cubs were asked for Hill straight up in exchange for Dunn; it was more likely a package of Hill, Pie, and Marshall for Dunn. If Hill was the base line asking price, there are a bunch of franchises out there with a comparable or better pitching prospect who could have topped that offer.

 

Clearly, no team did. Either we way overvalue those players or the asking price was too much for any team to bare. Considering how tight the WC race and how an addition like Dunn or Kearns would turn the tide, I'm guessing the price was just too much.

 

It's one thing to foolishly clutch prospects overvalued by the market until they no longer have value any more. It's another thing entirely to gut your farm system.

[ZMovieman]

Maybe Hill isn't an answer for this team long term, but can you honestly base the guy's performance after three starts (and a few relief appearances). I agree that Hill might be overrated, but that doesn't mean he won't be very solid either. It's too soon to tell, so I'm not going to jump to conclusions yet.

[TXCubsFan]

His value was absolutely enormous at the all-star break. He was rumored to be one of the key guys in a Dunn or Kearns deal but Jimbo held off cause he liked Hill to much. Obviously, a little to early to tell, but that will probably be a very large mistake in hindsight.

 

I would not be surprised if teams were enamored of Hill at the trade deadline. However, from many of the reports I've heard about the Reds, they were trying to hold teams for ransom with Kearns, Dunn, and Pena. It's not like the Cubs were asked for Hill straight up in exchange for Dunn; it was more likely a package of Hill, Pie, and Marshall for Dunn. If Hill was the base line asking price, there are a bunch of franchises out there with a comparable or better pitching prospect who could have topped that offer.

 

Clearly, no team did. Either we way overvalue those players or the asking price was too much for any team to bare. Considering how tight the WC race and how an addition like Dunn or Kearns would turn the tide, I'm guessing the price was just too much.

 

It's one thing to foolishly clutch prospects overvalued by the market until they no longer have value any more. It's another thing entirely to gut your farm system.

 

Hendry is thinking about 2006-2007. Why else would Macias be playing CF right now?

 

If Hill can develop a third pitch (cutter or change), then he could be an effective #3 or #4 pitcher. Zambrano had his troubles in the majors until he develop his off-speed pitches.

[SAMMYWHO]

I'm hoping Hill tops out like a Mark Mulder. Last night Mulder was throwing 87-89 on his fastball and they both have really good curves. Except Mulder is like 13-5 with a respectable era. I'm glad nobody is giving up on Hill yet, because the Mets were getting alot of cheap hits. I am worried about his pickoff move though. It seemed they were running freely on him and us in general.

[abuck1220]

The Cubs are like any other smart organization. They overhype their prospects in order to raise their trade value. Unfortunately, some fans buy the hype hook, line and sinker. I'm kinda glad Hill got shelled. Hopefully, they send him to Iowa and give Rusch the #5 spot. Hill isn't ready yet. What he did against weak hitting teams like AZ and SF was nothing to get fired up over.

 

As for Garland, bad trade cause the Cubs got so little in return.

 

hill got 'shelled' last night? i guess if a couple walks, a bunch of cheap singles and some of the worst defense i've ever seen = getting shelled, then you're right.

 

getting 'shelled' is what golden boys prior and maddux did their last starts.

 

Honestly, besides O_O, Raisin, Serena, Raw, DJaxx, Tinkers & Brian and the rest of the minor league game thread bunch know about Hill Before this season?

 

now this hurts...i've been driving the hill bandwagon since before this board even had bandwagons!

[Mark_R]

I'm hoping Hill tops out like a Mark Mulder. Last night Mulder was throwing 87-89 on his fastball and they both have really good curves. Except Mulder is like 13-5 with a respectable era. I'm glad nobody is giving up on Hill yet, because the Mets were getting alot of cheap hits. I am worried about his pickoff move though. It seemed they were running freely on him and us in general.

 

That's always going to be the case with guys who throw a lot of breaking balls unless they develop a wicked move to first. Curves come in obviously more slowly into the plate and also aren't usually up (if they are, there's more of a problem with the hitter than the runner then) for the catcher to make an easy transition into a strong throw.

[mhuber92211]

 

Honestly, besides O_O, Raisin, Serena, Raw, DJaxx, Tinkers & Brian and the rest of the minor league game thread bunch know about Hill Before this season?

 

now this hurts...i've been driving the hill bandwagon since before this board even had bandwagons!

 

Whoops. You know I sat in front of the computer for 5 minutes trying to remember everyone. How could I forget a Fitch Park guy like yourself? My Bad. :oops:

 

Maybe I just wanted to make sure that someone read and replied to my post :P