Kerry in the Bullpen

[rrudd2]

Tell me how dumb this idea sounds…

 

We all know that Maddux is, at best, a 6 inning pitcher. After 6 innings, and lately, after 5, the Cubs are into the bullpen when he starts. I'm wondering if it makes sense for Kerry Wood to be used to "finish" the games that Maddux starts. If Maddux is going well, have Wood warm up when the Cubs bat in the 6th, knowing he's going in to start the 7th inning. If Maddux isn't going well, he warms up when the Cubs bat in the 5th and have him start the 6th.

 

That gives Wood plenty of time to warm up. Since he's normally a starter, that's got to be important. It also forces hitters to make a huge adjustment between Maddux and Wood.

 

If Maddux is going well, Wood pitches the 7th-9th. If Maddux isn't, Wood pitches the 6th-9th. That way, Kerry is pitching 3-4 innings on a regular rotation. If he's up to it, perhaps he can pitch an inning or two on the middle days of his rest, but not on the day immediately before or after a Maddux start.

 

I thought about this approach back in the Spring, using a young pitcher with a future as a starter to come in for Maddux. Back then, I was thinking someone like Wellemeyer, Mitre or Leicester could fill that role, and be groomed for a starting spot next season.

 

Fire away!

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Vance suggested this last week, that Wood be used to go several innings on 3-4 days rest out of the pen. I'm not sure how in favor of it I'd be, but it's an interesting idea to think about.

[badger1679666666]

It would definitely get him in a situation where he could start if we make the playoffs. And yes, i want him starting if we make the playoffs. 4 man rotation.

 

Prior

Z

Wood

Williams

[USSoccer]

Good post. I was going to post this same idea this morning, as I think it's the best scenario to use Wood in.

 

It would allow the pen to rest, while Wood works a long save. It would be better for Kerry's arm than irregular work here and there, and finally, it could help depress Maddux's IP.

 

Yeah, I like the idea.

[jyoung55]

This is a well thought out, logical idea.... Dusty will never do it.

 

Seriously though, it is a good idea but I would assume a lot of managers wouldn't do it because of the inflexibility that it would provide and because its something different and most manager's don't go outside of the "book."

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Good post. I was going to post this same idea this morning, as I think it's the best scenario to use Wood in.

 

It would allow the pen to rest, while Wood works a long save. It would be better for Kerry's arm than irregular work here and there, and finally, it could help depress Maddux's IP.

 

Yeah, I like the idea.

 

Here's the problems I see with it. Since Wood requires several days between these appearances(as would most if not all pitchers), you are essentially playing with a 24 man roster on the days he doesn't pitch. You don't have the flexibility of a 7 man pen or of a 6 man bench. Secondly, if Wood is ineffective and needs to be replaced in any of the outings, it further taxes the pen that Wood is basically acting as a 5th and a half starter for. That said, I'm not against the idea per se, I'm just not convinced either way.

[USSoccer]

Good post. I was going to post this same idea this morning, as I think it's the best scenario to use Wood in.

 

It would allow the pen to rest, while Wood works a long save. It would be better for Kerry's arm than irregular work here and there, and finally, it could help depress Maddux's IP.

 

Yeah, I like the idea.

 

Here's the problems I see with it. Since Wood requires several days between these appearances(as would most if not all pitchers), you are essentially playing with a 24 man roster on the days he doesn't pitch. You don't have the flexibility of a 7 man pen or of a 6 man bench. Secondly, if Wood is ineffective and needs to be replaced in any of the outings, it further taxes the pen that Wood is basically acting as a 5th and a half starter for. That said, I'm not against the idea per se, I'm just not convinced either way.

 

but how often does your long reliever work anyway. Mitre doesn't really throw that often as it is, so I'm not sure if it's a real difference. You'd still have:

 

Williamson

Ohman

Wuertz

Novoa

Dempster

Rusch

 

to choose from. And in the end, it's only a 3 week problem, since in September you can have an army of bats/arms to call up and use if need be.

[gflore34]

This is a well thought out, logical idea.... Dusty will never do it.

 

Seriously though, it is a good idea but I would assume a lot of managers wouldn't do it because of the inflexibility that it would provide and because its something different and most manager's don't go outside of the "book."

 

Its a good idea however, if Wood goes 3-4 innings on a given day, that means he'll be unavailable for what, 2-3 days? I know I'm being optimistic but, I'm envisioning a 7th, 8th and 9th of Wood, Williamson and Dempster or, when Maddux is pitching a 6th, 7th, 8th and 9th of Wood, Wood, Williamson and Dempster. Basically, an effective trio of Wood, Williamson and Dempster will make it a 6 inning game, all the Cub starters will have to do is get to the 7th with a lead.

[hawkeyecub]

Good post. I was going to post this same idea this morning, as I think it's the best scenario to use Wood in.

 

It would allow the pen to rest, while Wood works a long save. It would be better for Kerry's arm than irregular work here and there, and finally, it could help depress Maddux's IP.

 

Yeah, I like the idea.

 

Here's the problems I see with it. Since Wood requires several days between these appearances(as would most if not all pitchers), you are essentially playing with a 24 man roster on the days he doesn't pitch. You don't have the flexibility of a 7 man pen or of a 6 man bench. Secondly, if Wood is ineffective and needs to be replaced in any of the outings, it further taxes the pen that Wood is basically acting as a 5th and a half starter for. That said, I'm not against the idea per se, I'm just not convinced either way.

 

Exactly.

If he's only pitching on the days that Maddux starts, that means on the other 4 days, we're playing with a 24 man roster. In addition to that, Williamson won't be available every day. So let's say Wood pitches a game that Maddux starts. If Williamson pitches the next game, we may be automatically down to a 23 man roster for the next game or two. Then if our starter in the next game gets knocked out early, our bullpen is in shambles.

 

In theory it sounds pretty good, but in reality we would have to count on Wood being very good on the days he does pitch, and our other starters being able to consistenly work fairly deep into games.

[10man]

Dusty still has the 12 pitchers on the roster so I think the bullpen has enough flexibility to do this with Wood.

[rrudd2]

Exactly.

If he's only pitching on the days that Maddux starts, that means on the other 4 days, we're playing with a 24 man roster. In addition to that, Williamson won't be available every day. So let's say Wood pitches a game that Maddux starts. If Williamson pitches the next game, we may be automatically down to a 23 man roster for the next game or two. Then if our starter in the next game gets knocked out early, our bullpen is in shambles.

 

In theory it sounds pretty good, but in reality we would have to count on Wood being very good on the days he does pitch, and our other starters being able to consistenly work fairly deep into games.

 

Here's an example of my thinking, using the current rotation, starting this Saturday against the Mets.

 

Saturday - Maddux/Wood

Sunday - Zambrano (Wood unavailable)

Monday - Williams (Wood available for 1-2 innings)

Tuesday - Prior (Wood available IF he didn't pitch on Monday)

Wednesday - Hill (Wood unavailable)

 

It would work better if Prior and Hill were flip-flopped in the rotation. That way, on the days that Wood isn't available, Z and Prior are on the mound. It would then be reasonable to expect that Z and Prior would work deep into games.

[USSoccer]

Good post. I was going to post this same idea this morning, as I think it's the best scenario to use Wood in.

 

It would allow the pen to rest, while Wood works a long save. It would be better for Kerry's arm than irregular work here and there, and finally, it could help depress Maddux's IP.

 

Yeah, I like the idea.

 

Here's the problems I see with it. Since Wood requires several days between these appearances(as would most if not all pitchers), you are essentially playing with a 24 man roster on the days he doesn't pitch. You don't have the flexibility of a 7 man pen or of a 6 man bench. Secondly, if Wood is ineffective and needs to be replaced in any of the outings, it further taxes the pen that Wood is basically acting as a 5th and a half starter for. That said, I'm not against the idea per se, I'm just not convinced either way.

 

Exactly.

If he's only pitching on the days that Maddux starts, that means on the other 4 days, we're playing with a 24 man roster. In addition to that, Williamson won't be available every day. So let's say Wood pitches a game that Maddux starts. If Williamson pitches the next game, we may be automatically down to a 23 man roster for the next game or two. Then if our starter in the next game gets knocked out early, our bullpen is in shambles.

 

In theory it sounds pretty good, but in reality we would have to count on Wood being very good on the days he does pitch, and our other starters being able to consistenly work fairly deep into games.

 

I pointed this out in an earlier response, but the easy answer to this is that Mitre doesn't pitch all that often right now, so using Wood for 3 innings when Maddux starts and then having him unavailable for 3 games isn't much different than Mitre riding the bench. Your long guy typically doesn't ge used much.

Besides, Maddux is followed in the rotation by Zambrano and Williams, who eat innings, so the chances of the pen getting overused in the 2 starts following the Maddux/Kerry game is low. Plus, it's only a 3 week problem, since the rosters expand September 1st, and then you have extra arms in case of a blowup start somewhere.

[CubbieRich]

Everyone keeps saying you'd be playing with a 24 man roster..it's 23. Wood and Maddux would both be unavailable. The other is financial. Who in their right mind would tie up $21 million(next year) in 2 pitchers for 1 out of 5 games?

[badger1679666666]

Everyone keeps saying you'd be playing with a 24 man roster..it's 23. Wood and Maddux would both be unavailable. The other is financial. Who in their right mind would tie up $21 million(next year) in 2 pitchers for 1 out of 5 games?

 

This isn't going to happen next year. Woody will get scoped and will be a starting pitcher. Maddux might not vest and won't be back. That's the theory behind the plan.

[USSoccer]

Everyone keeps saying you'd be playing with a 24 man roster..it's 23. Wood and Maddux would both be unavailable. The other is financial. Who in their right mind would tie up $21 million(next year) in 2 pitchers for 1 out of 5 games?

 

You're not doing it for next year; you're doing it to keep Wood healthy, limit his use, keep him on a consistent, stable usage pattern, and keep his arm reasonably stretched out in case we need him to play a Josh Beckett type role in the playoffs or down the stretch (spot start, multiple innings of relief in big games, etc.), keep Maddux starts from becoming blowouts, and all for the remainder of this year only.

 

Next year, Wood's shoulder will be coming off arthroscopic surgery, and hopefully he'll be in a position to be starting games for us.

[snoodmonger]

I don't think there's any way they'd use him as a starter in the playoffs, even if they did do this every fifth day regimen. The medical people say he can't hurt his arm any more if he limits his pitch count. I assume that means he can if he doesn't.

 

Besides, he won't be stretched out enough, even if he works 3 innings regularly, to be an effective starter in the postseason.

 

In fact, I think I just read a quote by Hendry where he said there's no way, once he's in the pen this season, that they'll ask him to start again, citing arm arm strength and "fairness to Woody" as the prohibitive reasons.

[USSoccer]

I don't think there's any way they'd use him as a starter in the playoffs, even if they did do this every fifth day regimen. The medical people say he can't hurt his arm any more if he limits his pitch count. I assume that means he can if he doesn't.

 

Besides, he won't be stretched out enough, even if he works 3 innings regularly, to be an effective starter in the postseason.

 

In fact, I think I just read a quote by Hendry where he said there's no way, once he's in the pen this season, that they'll ask him to start again, citing arm arm strength and "fairness to Woody" as the prohibitive reasons.

 

But he could be asked, in an elimination situation, to come in and throw 3 or 4 innings like Beckett did in Game 7 2003. Plus, if Williams or Maddux get knocked around (a real possibility given Maddux's postseason record), Wood might come in and basicaly be the starter in that game.

 

I think we'd get more of a boost using Wood this way rather than using him like we use Wuertz or Novoa.

[badger1679666666]

I don't think there's any way they'd use him as a starter in the playoffs, even if they did do this every fifth day regimen. The medical people say he can't hurt his arm any more if he limits his pitch count. I assume that means he can if he doesn't.

 

Besides, he won't be stretched out enough, even if he works 3 innings regularly, to be an effective starter in the postseason.

 

In fact, I think I just read a quote by Hendry where he said there's no way, once he's in the pen this season, that they'll ask him to start again, citing arm arm strength and "fairness to Woody" as the prohibitive reasons.

 

You're right I stand Corrected.

 

Prior

Z

Williams

Maddux.

 

Just really doesn't strike fear into anyones heart after the first two.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I don't think there's any way they'd use him as a starter in the playoffs, even if they did do this every fifth day regimen. The medical people say he can't hurt his arm any more if he limits his pitch count. I assume that means he can if he doesn't.

 

Besides, he won't be stretched out enough, even if he works 3 innings regularly, to be an effective starter in the postseason.

 

In fact, I think I just read a quote by Hendry where he said there's no way, once he's in the pen this season, that they'll ask him to start again, citing arm arm strength and "fairness to Woody" as the prohibitive reasons.

 

He may not be able to do any more damage, but if it is in fact his labrum, I speak from experience that his shoulder would not allow him. I have had moments over the past couple of years where it felt like my arm went with the ball and my entire arm went numb for 5-10 minutes. I have reached the point where I was not able to lift my arm -- forget throwing a ball. Of course, mine is completely torn, and as I understand, his only has some minor damage. He will obviously be able to make more throws than me (I'm currently at about 10/gm), but he will be extremely limited before the pain comes roaring right back.