The returns of Nomar, Wood, and Williamson...

[CubsHawks25]

BETTER really re-energize this team. Yeah we won tonight, miraculously somehow, but the offense has disappeared - at least the ability to score runs (THANKS ARAMIS for the clutch hit tonight!) - and I don't know if Dempster just isn't a closer and has been lucky, or he doesn't have the right temperament (too nervous, aka sweats alot, even more than heat would cause).

 

I don't know if Wood would solidify the closer spot or not, but man... Dempster has tried really hard to give away either the last 3, or 3 of the last 4, of his save opportunities.

[Uber]

BETTER really re-energize this team. Yeah we won tonight, miraculously somehow, but the offense has disappeared - at least the ability to score runs (THANKS ARAMIS for the clutch hit tonight!) - and I don't know if Dempster just isn't a closer and has been lucky, or he doesn't have the right temperament (too nervous, aka sweats alot, even more than heat would cause).

 

I don't know if Wood would solidify the closer spot or not, but man... Dempster has tried really hard to give away either the last 3, or 3 of the last 4, of his save opportunities.

 

just to be clear...Dempster might not be a good closer because he sweats too much?

[ConstableRabbit]

just to be clear...Dempster might not be a good closer because he sweats too much?

 

It's a proven fact that bad closers have abnormally high body temperatures, exemplified by Latroy Hawkins, who insisted on wearing short sleeves this past April against Pittsburgh at Wrigley, where the gametime temperature was hovering around 30 degrees.

[CubsHawks25]

BETTER really re-energize this team. Yeah we won tonight, miraculously somehow, but the offense has disappeared - at least the ability to score runs (THANKS ARAMIS for the clutch hit tonight!) - and I don't know if Dempster just isn't a closer and has been lucky, or he doesn't have the right temperament (too nervous, aka sweats alot, even more than heat would cause).

 

I don't know if Wood would solidify the closer spot or not, but man... Dempster has tried really hard to give away either the last 3, or 3 of the last 4, of his save opportunities.

 

just to be clear...Dempster might not be a good closer because he sweats too much?

 

If you believe Brenly, then I guess you could make a slight argument, yeah. Brenly said a couple times that because of Ryan's sweating profusely, that he couldn't get the grip on the ball that he needed to throw his splitter for a strike (notice how they were all high and really tailed outside tonight). And also you would have noticed his continual wiping of the hand on the his pant leg to try and dry it, and going to the rosin bag after every hitter/looking at his hand after alot of pitches.

[shnsajax]

just to be clear...Dempster might not be a good closer because he sweats too much?

 

It's a proven fact that bad closers have abnormally high body temperatures, exemplified by Latroy Hawkins, who insisted on wearing short sleeves this past April against Pittsburgh at Wrigley, where the gametime temperature was hovering around 30 degrees.

 

If I am not mistaken MIT had a $50,000 grant to prove this. :?

[Outshined_One]

just to be clear...Dempster might not be a good closer because he sweats too much?

 

It's a proven fact that bad closers have abnormally high body temperatures, exemplified by Latroy Hawkins, who insisted on wearing short sleeves this past April against Pittsburgh at Wrigley, where the gametime temperature was hovering around 30 degrees.

 

So how does study this account for Joe Borowski?

[MembersOnlyJacket]

People sweat when the temperature is 93 and the dewpoint is 68 ? You learn something new every day.

[shnsajax]

102 here today, dew point at 74. Dempster would suck in Texas.

[CubsHawks25]

People sweat when the temperature is 93 and the dewpoint is 68 ? You learn something new every day.

 

 

When it affects a pitcher and hampers the way he throws certain pitches, then yeah, its something to keep in mind and remember.

[ConstableRabbit]

So how does study this account for Joe Borowski?

 

Actually, if you remember, Joe played in the Mexican leagues before ending up in the majors, and according to Dusty, 'people of color play better in the heat.' A few seasons playing in Mexico, plus his heavily tanned arms make him a 'person of color' in Dusty's book, and therefore, a good closer. However, I'm currently trying to get a $50,000 grant from NU to find out why he was only good for one season... :D

 

 

P.S. Is sarcasm officially posted in green?

[sweetpeteman]

So how does study this account for Joe Borowski?

 

Actually, if you remember, Joe played in the Mexican leagues before ending up in the majors, and according to Dusty, 'people of color play better in the heat.' A few seasons playing in Mexico, plus his heavily tanned arms make him a 'person of color' in Dusty's book, and therefore, a good closer. However, I'm currently trying to get a $50,000 grant from NU to find out why he was only good for one season... :D

 

 

P.S. Is sarcasm officially posted in green?

 

no. there is no official color.

[sandberg23]

So how does study this account for Joe Borowski?

 

Actually, if you remember, Joe played in the Mexican leagues before ending up in the majors, and according to Dusty, 'people of color play better in the heat.' A few seasons playing in Mexico, plus his heavily tanned arms make him a 'person of color' in Dusty's book, and therefore, a good closer. However, I'm currently trying to get a $50,000 grant from NU to find out why he was only good for one season... :D

 

 

P.S. Is sarcasm officially posted in green?

 

Why do people keep saying Borowski was only good for one season? Do people not remember '02?

[ConstableRabbit]

So how does study this account for Joe Borowski?

 

Actually, if you remember, Joe played in the Mexican leagues before ending up in the majors, and according to Dusty, 'people of color play better in the heat.' A few seasons playing in Mexico, plus his heavily tanned arms make him a 'person of color' in Dusty's book, and therefore, a good closer. However, I'm currently trying to get a $50,000 grant from NU to find out why he was only good for one season... :D

 

 

P.S. Is sarcasm officially posted in green?

 

Why do people keep saying Borowski was only good for one season? Do people not remember '02?

 

He wasn't a closer in '02. I believe it was El Pulpo. JoBo only had 2 saves that season, and since we are talking specifically about closers, I said he was only good for one season, implying in the closer position. He was a good reliever that season though.

[YearofDaCubs]

Who cares if Dempster sweats. He got the job done and has been a godsend to us compared to Latroy.

[CubsHawks25]

Who cares if Dempster sweats. He got the job done and has been a godsend to us compared to Latroy.

 

Thanks to Perez chasing 2 pitches that would have been called balls.

 

Look, all I'm saying is that it must be something that either Brenly's noticed or its been proven somehow, that Dempster sweats more than what the heat/dewpoints help produce. Why would Brenly not have just said "with the heat and humidity, its creating sweat on Ryan's hand"? IIRC, Bob said something to the effect of "because of Dempster's profuse amounts of sweat on his throwing hand, he can't get an effective grip on the ball to throw his splitter the way he wants to."

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Who cares if Dempster sweats. He got the job done and has been a godsend to us compared to Latroy.

 

Thanks to Perez chasing 2 pitches that would have been called balls.

 

Look, all I'm saying is that it must be something that either Brenly's noticed or its been proven somehow, that Dempster sweats more than what the heat/dewpoints help produce. Why would Brenly not have just said "with the heat and humidity, its creating sweat on Ryan's hand"? IIRC, Bob said something to the effect of "because of Dempster's profuse amounts of sweat on his throwing hand, he can't get an effective grip on the ball to throw his splitter the way he wants to."

 

Isn't that what the rosin bag is for? Perhaps more pitchers should take advantage of it.

[CubsHawks25]

Who cares if Dempster sweats. He got the job done and has been a godsend to us compared to Latroy.

 

Thanks to Perez chasing 2 pitches that would have been called balls.

 

Look, all I'm saying is that it must be something that either Brenly's noticed or its been proven somehow, that Dempster sweats more than what the heat/dewpoints help produce. Why would Brenly not have just said "with the heat and humidity, its creating sweat on Ryan's hand"? IIRC, Bob said something to the effect of "because of Dempster's profuse amounts of sweat on his throwing hand, he can't get an effective grip on the ball to throw his splitter the way he wants to."

 

Isn't that what the rosin bag is for? Perhaps more pitchers should take advantage of it.

 

I wasn't out there personally, so I'm not sure what happened (maybe it did help him out more than appeared to do so), but Ryan did go to the rosin bag at least 3 times, but still the sweat seemed to have overpowered it and his continual hand wiping.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Who cares if Dempster sweats. He got the job done and has been a godsend to us compared to Latroy.

 

Thanks to Perez chasing 2 pitches that would have been called balls.

 

Look, all I'm saying is that it must be something that either Brenly's noticed or its been proven somehow, that Dempster sweats more than what the heat/dewpoints help produce. Why would Brenly not have just said "with the heat and humidity, its creating sweat on Ryan's hand"? IIRC, Bob said something to the effect of "because of Dempster's profuse amounts of sweat on his throwing hand, he can't get an effective grip on the ball to throw his splitter the way he wants to."

 

Isn't that what the rosin bag is for? Perhaps more pitchers should take advantage of it.

 

I wasn't out there personally, so I'm not sure what happened (maybe it did help him out more than appeared to do so), but Ryan did go to the rosin bag at least 3 times, but still the sweat seemed to have overpowered it and his continual hand wiping.

 

Huh, I must confess I didn't see the game, so I didn't know he went to it. Weird though, I can't remember the last time I saw a pitcher use the rosin bag during a game.

[ConstableRabbit]

Who cares if Dempster sweats. He got the job done and has been a godsend to us compared to Latroy.

 

Thanks to Perez chasing 2 pitches that would have been called balls.

 

Look, all I'm saying is that it must be something that either Brenly's noticed or its been proven somehow, that Dempster sweats more than what the heat/dewpoints help produce. Why would Brenly not have just said "with the heat and humidity, its creating sweat on Ryan's hand"? IIRC, Bob said something to the effect of "because of Dempster's profuse amounts of sweat on his throwing hand, he can't get an effective grip on the ball to throw his splitter the way he wants to."

 

I didn't really pay much attention to how much he was using the rosin bag, but I will note that Ron was pleading with Rothschild (or Barrett) to go out to the mound after Bell struck out to give Dempster a breather and to allow him to cool off. The adjective he used was "dripping" and I really don't think he was too far off. I'm not sure on this, but weren't most of the pitches he was missing with breaking balls? It seemed like ihe was having much less trouble challenging hitters with the fastball (I think he reached 97 on one) than the breaking pitches, which could be attributed to sweat.

[Brian]

Dempster has pitched in a save situation 17 times this season, the Cubs have won 17 of those contests. HMMMMMMM

[NorthsideAvenger]

Not counting tonight, but here is Dempster's line as a reliever this yr:

 

Saves/SVO 14/16

Ave .217

WHIP: 1.24

H/IP: 25/32.1

 

Yeah....he is no closer. :roll:

 

--------

 

CubsHawk, to say someone is not a closer because he "sweats too much", is a weak, and invalid argument. New flash, all closers sweat. Consider this fact....at the time that Dempster was pitching, it was around 90 degree, not blistering, but not "cool" by any means necessary. Add in the fact that the lights are not "cool" either. ALL closers have games like this, where they make it a heart attack game, but all the great ones, find a way to get out of it.

 

In fact, this MAY HAVE BEEN Dempster's most impressive outing as a closer. He didn't have his stuff, he struggled. He EARNED this save tonight. Regardless of any statement you make, Dempster is a BONAFID closer, and to compare him to Hawkins, would be like comparing Novoa to Mariano Rivera. You can't do it.

[Flames24Rulz]

this was a big game for Dempster IMO. To get the save in a situation as tough as that hopefully will do him some good for future situations. Anyone saying he shouldn't be the closer has no clue about what Dempster has done for us in that position.

[ConstableRabbit]

ALL closers have games like this, where they make it a heart attack game, but all the great ones, find a way to get out of it.

 

I know Len and Bob were mentioning Mitch Williams, but was anyone else reminded of Beck tonite? I was just waiting for Demp's arm to start waving :lol:

 

In all seriousness though, Dempster has done a pretty good job as a closer this season, and although he was ridiculous tonite, in the end, he got the job done, as YearofDaCubs said. In baseball, that's usually good enough.

[sporrer17]

Bottom line, we won...Dempster did his job...sweaty or not. They have showers in the clubhouse, he won't smell the rest of the year, don't worry.

 

This is a ridiculous argument. Even if that was a legit reason for him struggling, he still did his job, and got the save. Like Brian said, we're 17-0 when Dempster appears in a save situation. That is one stat you can not argue with...if you can, congratulations.

[CubsWin]

The argument that Dempster has sweaty palms and that is what caused his wildness in Tuesday night's game falls apart when you ask, why didn't the same wildness show up in all of the other really hot game conditions the Cubs have played in lately. It was much hotter in St. Louis on July 23rd and Demp didn't walk 4 consecutive batters in that game.

 

And, if it were true that he couldn't keep his hands dry due to persperation, then all he would have to do is learn to throw the spitter. Gaylord Perry would have killed to sweat like Dempster. :wink: