Cubs Top 5 Position Player Now

[tspain]

I see them as:

 

1. Ryan Harvey

 

2. Felix Pie

 

3. Ronny Cedeno

 

4. Matt Murton

 

5. Eric Patterson

 

 

 

The 6-10 would be:

 

6. Brian Dopirak

 

7. Jake Fox

 

8. Geovany Soto

 

9. Scott Moore

 

10. Ryan Theriot

 

So how would you list them at the moment?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I think Pie is number one, with Murton, Patterson, Harvey in the top 5. I don't know how I'd rank them, or how much weight I'd give to Dope and Cedeno's performance this year.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

I don't think there is any way that Felix can't be rated as the top position player.

 

Pie

Harvey

Moore

Murton

Dope

[tspain]

The reason I listed Ryan Harvey ahead of Pie is because Harvey already has about 17 hrs and 75 rbi, and take that over a full season and get 25-30 hrs and 100 rbi. Harvey can easily be expected to hit 30+ hrs and drive in 100+ every season once he reaches the majors. Those numbers are not expected from Pie, they are 2 different players. I love them both very much, but just see Harvey as a bigger player in my estimation.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

The reason I listed Ryan Harvey ahead of Pie is because Harvey already has about 17 hrs and 75 rbi, and take that over a full season and get 25-30 hrs and 100 rbi. Harvey can easily be expected to hit 30+ hrs and drive in 100+ every season once he reaches the majors. Those numbers are not expected from Pie, they are 2 different players. I love them both very much, but just see Harvey as a bigger player in my estimation.

 

Pie has fewer HR because of his injury. Pie at 650 PA's projects to 28 HR, Harvey to 31 HR. And Pie is doing that 2 levels higher.

[WrigleyField 22]

Pie

Murton

Sing

Harvey

Dopriak

[TruffleShuffle]

I don't think there is any way that Felix can't be rated as the top position player.

 

Pie

Harvey

Moore

Murton

Dope

 

Am I the only one who doesn't get the big stink about this guy? Yes he has pretty good power, but his plate discipline is poor (averaging a strikeout a game this year and throughout his professional career) and he's really only having a solid year at a level he played at last season. At least Brandon Sing walks a lot and destroyed the levels that he's repeated. I feel like if Moore had been drafted in the 20th round instead of 8th overall, nobody would think anything of him.

[Outshined_One]

I don't think there is any way that Felix can't be rated as the top position player.

 

Pie

Harvey

Moore

Murton

Dope

 

Am I the only one who doesn't get the big stink about this guy? Yes he has pretty good power, but his plate discipline is poor (averaging a strikeout a game this year and throughout his professional career) and he's really only having a solid year at a level he played at last season. At least Brandon Sing walks a lot and destroyed the levels that he's repeated. I feel like if Moore had been drafted in the 20th round instead of 8th overall, nobody would think anything of him.

 

I'd also like to point out his errors so far at third base this season.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I don't think there is any way that Felix can't be rated as the top position player.

 

Pie

Harvey

Moore

Murton

Dope

 

Am I the only one who doesn't get the big stink about this guy? Yes he has pretty good power, but his plate discipline is poor (averaging a strikeout a game this year and throughout his professional career) and he's really only having a solid year at a level he played at last season. At least Brandon Sing walks a lot and destroyed the levels that he's repeated. I feel like if Moore had been drafted in the 20th round instead of 8th overall, nobody would think anything of him.

 

Moore K's a lot, but he's walking at a good clip and hitting for great power in High A ball at age 21. Sing was at the same level at the same age and walked more and struck out less, but was also much less productive. Moore's K's are a lot easier to handle with his power production, in addition to his decent walk rate. His BABIP isn't extremely high(.324), so he should be able to translate his success to other levels.

[T2E]

I don't think there is any way that Felix can't be rated as the top position player.

 

Pie

Harvey

Moore

Murton

Dope

 

Am I the only one who doesn't get the big stink about this guy? Yes he has pretty good power, but his plate discipline is poor (averaging a strikeout a game this year and throughout his professional career) and he's really only having a solid year at a level he played at last season. At least Brandon Sing walks a lot and destroyed the levels that he's repeated. I feel like if Moore had been drafted in the 20th round instead of 8th overall, nobody would think anything of him.

 

I'd also like to point out his errors so far at third base this season.

 

Good point. Scott Moore the first baseman is far less attractive than Scott Moore the third baseman. He's become a solid prospect, but I wouldn't rate him in the top 5. My top five in no particular order:

 

Pie

Harvey

Dope

Cedeno

Murton

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I don't think there is any way that Felix can't be rated as the top position player.

 

Pie

Harvey

Moore

Murton

Dope

 

Am I the only one who doesn't get the big stink about this guy? Yes he has pretty good power, but his plate discipline is poor (averaging a strikeout a game this year and throughout his professional career) and he's really only having a solid year at a level he played at last season. At least Brandon Sing walks a lot and destroyed the levels that he's repeated. I feel like if Moore had been drafted in the 20th round instead of 8th overall, nobody would think anything of him.

 

I'd also like to point out his errors so far at third base this season.

 

Good point. Scott Moore the first baseman is far less attractive than Scott Moore the third baseman. He's become a solid prospect, but I wouldn't rate him in the top 5. My top five in no particular order:

 

Pie

Harvey

Dope

Cedeno

Murton

 

Why is Moore, who has many errors at a more difficult defensive position and much better offensive production, rated lower than Dope? I can understand concerns about Moore, but wouldn't they still hold true with Brian(except with lower BB and K ratios)?

[T2E]

Why is Moore, who has many errors at a more difficult defensive position and much better offensive production, rated lower than Dope? I can understand concerns about Moore, but wouldn't they still hold true with Brian(except with lower BB and K ratios)?

 

If you are only taking into account this years numbers than yes, Moore would rate higher than Dope. But Dope has shown in the past that he can be a legit 40 home run guy. Clearly he hasn't shown that this year, but the potential is undoubtedly there for him to be an above-average offensive first baseman. Moore, who is a full year older than Dope, has many of the same concerns (as you mention) and he doesn't have the immense power potential the Dope possesses. I worry that Moore won't be able to hit enough to play every day at first base (assuming he can't handle third).

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Why is Moore, who has many errors at a more difficult defensive position and much better offensive production, rated lower than Dope? I can understand concerns about Moore, but wouldn't they still hold true with Brian(except with lower BB and K ratios)?

 

If you are only taking into account this years numbers than yes, Moore would rate higher than Dope. But Dope has shown in the past that he can be a legit 40 home run guy. Clearly he hasn't shown that this year, but the potential is undoubtedly there for him to be an above-average offensive first baseman. Moore, who is a full year older than Dope, has many of the same concerns (as you mention) and he doesn't have the immense power potential the Dope possesses. I worry that Moore won't be able to hit enough to play every day at first base (assuming he can't handle third).

 

Dope is only a month younger than Moore. To me it seems that both players have had one big year, and one down year, with Moore's and Dopirak's switched between Low and High A. Neither did anything at Low A at age 19, but Moore got promoted while Dope didn't.

[T2E]

Why is Moore, who has many errors at a more difficult defensive position and much better offensive production, rated lower than Dope? I can understand concerns about Moore, but wouldn't they still hold true with Brian(except with lower BB and K ratios)?

 

If you are only taking into account this years numbers than yes, Moore would rate higher than Dope. But Dope has shown in the past that he can be a legit 40 home run guy. Clearly he hasn't shown that this year, but the potential is undoubtedly there for him to be an above-average offensive first baseman. Moore, who is a full year older than Dope, has many of the same concerns (as you mention) and he doesn't have the immense power potential the Dope possesses. I worry that Moore won't be able to hit enough to play every day at first base (assuming he can't handle third).

 

Dope is only a month younger than Moore. To me it seems that both players have had one big year, and one down year, with Moore's and Dopirak's switched between Low and High A. Neither did anything at Low A at age 19, but Moore got promoted while Dope didn't.

 

My mistake on the age thing.

 

I wouldn't really consider Dope to have recieved a full season at Lansing when he was 19, but that's just nitpicking.

 

The real problem that I have with your argument is saying that "they both had one big year." It is somewhat truthful, Dope has had one season that has gotten him attention, same for Moore. But comparing the two doesn't make sense. Dope hit 39 home runs and hit for a .307 average. Moore is likely to hit about .275 with his home run total in the low-20's. When you take into account league, the difference is smaller, but it is still large. Dope hit 39 home runs, when Moore hits that many and sustains a .300 average I'll start getting really excited about him. I just don't see the same power potential.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Why is Moore, who has many errors at a more difficult defensive position and much better offensive production, rated lower than Dope? I can understand concerns about Moore, but wouldn't they still hold true with Brian(except with lower BB and K ratios)?

 

If you are only taking into account this years numbers than yes, Moore would rate higher than Dope. But Dope has shown in the past that he can be a legit 40 home run guy. Clearly he hasn't shown that this year, but the potential is undoubtedly there for him to be an above-average offensive first baseman. Moore, who is a full year older than Dope, has many of the same concerns (as you mention) and he doesn't have the immense power potential the Dope possesses. I worry that Moore won't be able to hit enough to play every day at first base (assuming he can't handle third).

 

Dope is only a month younger than Moore. To me it seems that both players have had one big year, and one down year, with Moore's and Dopirak's switched between Low and High A. Neither did anything at Low A at age 19, but Moore got promoted while Dope didn't.

 

My mistake on the age thing.

 

I wouldn't really consider Dope to have recieved a full season at Lansing when he was 19, but that's just nitpicking.

 

The real problem that I have with your argument is saying that "they both had one big year." It is somewhat truthful, Dope has had one season that has gotten him attention, same for Moore. But comparing the two doesn't make sense. Dope hit 39 home runs and hit for a .307 average. Moore is likely to hit about .275 with his home run total in the low-20's. When you take into account league, the difference is smaller, but it is still large. Dope hit 39 home runs, when Moore hits that many and sustains a .300 average I'll start getting really excited about him. I just don't see the same power potential.

 

Cool. Thanks for the explanation.

[Outshined_One]

One thing to keep in mind is that Dopirak has basically had no break from the start of his stint in Lansing up until now. He played in the Arizona Fall League and also saw his fair share of action in Spring Training. Exhaustion and nagging injuries are both likely possibilities for some of his struggles this season.

[craig]

1. pie, not even close. Serious prospect. Limitation: high K's, low walks.

 

2. Cedeno. Limitation: offense. Power and patience are low.

 

3. murton. Limitation: power and defense

 

4. Eric Patterson. Limitation: K's. Speed and power are nice relative to low-A; unclear how decent they'll be in majors.

 

5. Sing. Limitation: K's and defense.

 

6. Harvey. Limitation: K's, ability to make solid contact, anti-walk, ability to hit breaking balls.

 

6B. Fontenot. Limitation: maybe below average at too many things, defense, hitting, power...

 

7. Fox. Limitation: Dunno, receiving maybe? Unclear whether any of his skills are quite major-league caliber, but maybe they are?

 

8. Richie. Limitation: Hitting seems doubtful, but in the world of catchers, who knows?

 

9. Moore. Limitation: K's, breaking balls, and defense

 

10. Fuld. Limitation: Power. Still, at least a chance to do what Hairston does and do it better.

 

11. Greenberg. Limitation: No power, high K's

 

12. Dopirak. Limitation: Breaking balls, defense, K's, no walks, batting average.

 

Seems to me the majority of guys have some pretty serious limitations. If your plusses are good enough, that can outweigh the minuses. If you hit enough HR's, it can overcome a lot of K's, for example, and still enable usable batting average and acceptable OBP. Time will tell whether most of the guys are good enough at what they're best at to make their limitations seem relatively unimportant.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

How do you know that Dope, Moore, and Harvey have problems with breaking balls? Have you seen a bunch of their games this year, seen scouting reports, or are you just making an assumption based on the fact that they are power hitters that strike out a bunch?

[Diffusion]

I don't think there is any way that Felix can't be rated as the top position player.

 

Pie

Harvey

Moore

Murton

Dope

 

Am I the only one who doesn't get the big stink about this guy? Yes he has pretty good power, but his plate discipline is poor (averaging a strikeout a game this year and throughout his professional career) and he's really only having a solid year at a level he played at last season. At least Brandon Sing walks a lot and destroyed the levels that he's repeated. I feel like if Moore had been drafted in the 20th round instead of 8th overall, nobody would think anything of him.

 

Erm........

 

	Age	Level	AB	AVG	OBP	SLG	HR	BB	K	BABIP
Brandon Sing	24	AA	316	.304	.415	.601	23	64	85	.340
Scott Moore	21	High-A	359	.273	.347	.490	17	41	97	.320

 

Sing walks more, is getting somewhat luckier on balls in play going for hits and has more power. They're striking out at very similar rates. Moore though is a level below Sing and is, crucially, three years younger. I don't see the great difference here.

 

 

I always find making these kind of lists difficult. So much floor and ceiling to balance. Where does a guy like Harvey rank compared to someone like Cedeno and where does he rank compared to someone like Greenberg? My personal assessment of these players is that you're looking at a huge upside but extremely unlikely to ever make the major leagues (Harvey), an absolute lock to make the majors but probably not be that great even for a shortstop (Cedeno), and a very good bet to be one of the best fourth outfielders in the game (Greenberg). Now which would you rather have? I'm really not sure I'd say Harvey.

[ChiefsVoice]

How do you know that Dope, Moore, and Harvey have problems with breaking balls? Have you seen a bunch of their games this year, seen scouting reports, or are you just making an assumption based on the fact that they are power hitters that strike out a bunch?

 

 

I cant speak for Dopirak and Moore, but the other one is a very solid evaluation...

[2242005CY]

I see them as:

 

1. Ryan Harvey

 

2. Felix Pie

 

3. Ronny Cedeno

 

4. Matt Murton

 

5. Eric Patterson

 

 

 

The 6-10 would be:

 

6. Brian Dopirak

 

7. Jake Fox

 

8. Geovany Soto

 

9. Scott Moore

 

10. Ryan Theriot

 

So how would you list them at the moment?

 

Sing not in your top 10??

 

My top 5:

 

Pie

Murton

Harvery

Patterson

Dopirak

[Tim]

1. Pie
    
   -- gap --
    
   
2. Dopirak
   
3. Harvey
    
   -- gap --
    
   
4. Cedeno
   
5. Murton
    
   Overall, there's a lot of depth and some true impact guys if they overcome certain flaws in their game. Of course, that isn't as common as we'd like.

[jaxxradio]

Great subject to talk about. I think everyone needs to remember something about the minor leagues. The jump from High-A to Double-A is without question the largest jump a player will make. The stat gurus can yak all they want about great numbers in Low and High-A ball, but until that person can put up those same type of numbers in Double-A or Triple-A, you can't totally gauge how good of a prospect the player is.

 

It should be quite easy for the top prospects to put up large numbers in "A" ball. Pitchers throw a ton of mistakes up there for the hitting prospects to plaster and the pitching prospects can blow hitters away with a good fast ball or make hitters look horrible with a good hook.

 

Once the prospect comes to Double-A, the cream starts rising to the top. You don't have many below average players in Double-A. If a prospect can put up really good numbers in Double-A or Triple-A (Murton and Sing this season, Dubois last year in Iowa) then we can talk about his possible impact in Chicago.

[craig]

How do you know that Dope, Moore, and Harvey have problems with breaking balls? Have you seen a bunch of their games this year, seen scouting reports, or are you just making an assumption based on the fact that they are power hitters that strike out a bunch?

 

I'm basing that on scouting reports. I haven't seen any of them play. Chief's voice, for example, in regards to Harvey! On Dopirak, I've heard that from a Cub scout 2nd hand (Cub scout said that to friend after last season, friend passed it along...), and from several amateurs who went to several Daytona games this season. On Moore, got observation to that effect from amateur Cub prospect lovers who went to several Daytona games this season, and that was also the scouting impression I seem to recall from the Baseball America writeups.

[Tim]

How do you know that Dope, Moore, and Harvey have problems with breaking balls? Have you seen a bunch of their games this year, seen scouting reports, or are you just making an assumption based on the fact that they are power hitters that strike out a bunch?

 

I'm basing that on scouting reports. I haven't seen any of them play. Chief's voice, for example, in regards to Harvey! On Dopirak, I've heard that from a Cub scout 2nd hand (Cub scout said that to friend after last season, friend passed it along...), and from several amateurs who went to several Daytona games this season. On Moore, got observation to that effect from amateur Cub prospect lovers who went to several Daytona games this season, and that was also the scouting impression I seem to recall from the Baseball America writeups.

I'm not sure about Moore, but I've seen both Dopirak and Harvey struggle with sliders low and away.