Tampa alters their offer (Manny Deal)

[burnt out cubbie fan]

If this deal goes thru (I don't think it will, there were too many parts involved yesterday, and now even more) where does Tampa play Ramirez? They've already got Upton that sweet Lou won't play. Tampa's got too many good prospects not to play and/or trade a few of them. This is a minor league fan's dream

 

Upton, Ramirez from Boston, Cantu, Milledge?, Delmon the Great as opposed to Dmitri the Lesser, Baldelli (surgery I know), Crawford, Shoppach, Gomes, and who else am I leaving out? Add Phelps in at DH/1st Base and you've got a crowd.

Gathright.

[NorthsideAvenger]

The Cards won't get either.

 

For anybody to get Adam Dunn, means they have to deal prospects period.

 

Giles is on a team pushing for the playoffs, they wont trade him.

 

The Cards have 2 or 3 very good pitching prospects that were much more highly regarded than Hill. Wainright is the only name that comes to mind but Jocketty has shown he's not afraid to trade prospects for splash deals.

 

See Haren, Dan & Isringhausen, Jason

 

Had they NOT wasted Haren, Calero, and Barton on Mulder (not an ace, not an ace), then I would be worried about the Cards getting Dunn. But seeing as their FARM SYSYEM is very limited in what the Cards can/can't do, I not to worried about the Cards getting Dunn, cause they don't have enough.

[JeffH]

Reyes and Wainright [sic] are still more than enough to get that deal done.

 

Wainwright is awful.

Edited July 30, 2005 by JeffH

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Reyes and Wainright are still more than enough to get that deal done.

 

I don't see how Reyes and Wainright is that much better than Hill and Mitre.

[davecubsfan]

If this deal goes thru (I don't think it will, there were too many parts involved yesterday, and now even more) where does Tampa play Ramirez? They've already got Upton that sweet Lou won't play. Tampa's got too many good prospects not to play and/or trade a few of them. This is a minor league fan's dream

 

Upton, Ramirez from Boston, Cantu, Milledge?, Delmon the Great as opposed to Dmitri the Lesser, Baldelli (surgery I know), Crawford, Shoppach, Gomes, and who else am I leaving out? Add Phelps in at DH/1st Base and you've got a crowd.

Gathright.

 

 

Thanks BOCF, I forgot the most important one IMO :)

[davecubsfan]

Reyes and Wainright are still more than enough to get that deal done.

 

I don't see how Reyes and Wainright is that much better than Hill and Mitre.

 

Reyes and Hill are a tossup IMO, but Wainwright is much better than Mitre I think even with his arm problems.

[XZero771679666304]

The Cards won't get either.

 

For anybody to get Adam Dunn, means they have to deal prospects period.

 

Giles is on a team pushing for the playoffs, they wont trade him.

 

The Cards have 2 or 3 very good pitching prospects that were much more highly regarded than Hill. Wainright is the only name that comes to mind but Jocketty has shown he's not afraid to trade prospects for splash deals.

 

See Haren, Dan & Isringhausen, Jason

 

Had they NOT wasted Haren, Calero, and Barton on Mulder (not an ace, not an ace), then I would be worried about the Cards getting Dunn. But seeing as their FARM SYSYEM is very limited in what the Cards can/can't do, I not to worried about the Cards getting Dunn, cause they don't have enough.

 

They have enough, but aquiring Dunn would take the remainder of the top talent they have in the minors. Since they don't have much now, it would leave their system effectively barren.

[ThePenguin11]

The Cards won't get either.

 

For anybody to get Adam Dunn, means they have to deal prospects period.

 

Giles is on a team pushing for the playoffs, they wont trade him.

 

The Cards have 2 or 3 very good pitching prospects that were much more highly regarded than Hill. Wainright is the only name that comes to mind but Jocketty has shown he's not afraid to trade prospects for splash deals.

 

See Haren, Dan & Isringhausen, Jason

 

Had they NOT wasted Haren, Calero, and Barton on Mulder (not an ace, not an ace), then I would be worried about the Cards getting Dunn. But seeing as their FARM SYSYEM is very limited in what the Cards can/can't do, I not to worried about the Cards getting Dunn, cause they don't have enough.

 

Oops, I thought Haren was for Izzy. If that's the case then who did the Cards trade for Isringhausen?

 

-As far as Wainright goes - I didn't know he was stinking it up this year - I do know he and two or three of their other top SP prospects had arm trouble last season.

[ThePenguin11]

Is anyone listing to MLB Radio? I didn't even know it was free. The show will feature Reds GM Dan O'Brian today. It just started in case anyone's interested. Edited July 30, 2005 by ThePenguin11

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Reyes and Wainright are still more than enough to get that deal done.

 

I don't see how Reyes and Wainright is that much better than Hill and Mitre.

 

Reyes and Hill are a tossup IMO, but Wainwright is much better than Mitre I think even with his arm problems.

 

I'm curious to see why you think Wainwright is much better than Mitre. Mitre has had more success at the same level and age, and has been injury free.

[bmkhawk]

Reyes and Wainright [sic] are still more than enough to get that deal done.

 

Wainwright is awful.

 

Awful? A little loose with the hyperbole aren't we?

 

4.17 ERA in the PCL is far from "awful".

[ThePenguin11]

ESPNews just reported breaking news that the Manny deal "close to dead". Take it for what it's worth.

[Halman]

Isn't Wainright's velocity down though?

[XZero771679666304]

Reyes and Wainright [sic] are still more than enough to get that deal done.

 

Wainwright is awful.

 

Awful? A little loose with the hyperbole aren't we?

 

4.17 ERA in the PCL is far from "awful".

 

True, but it's far from top notch too.

[ThePenguin11]

Reyes and Wainright [sic] are still more than enough to get that deal done.

 

Wainwright is awful.

 

Awful? A little loose with the hyperbole aren't we?

 

4.17 ERA in the PCL is far from "awful".

 

True, but it's far from top notch too.

 

I think the difference is that Wainwright was a first round pick and the expectations at the major league level are higher.

[ThePenguin11]

Dan O' Brian just joined MLB Radio...

[JeffH]

Awful? A little loose with the hyperbole aren't we?

 

4.17 ERA in the PCL is far from "awful".

 

Wellemeyer is generally considered garbage and he has a 3.16 ERA in the same league, with much better peripheral numbers as well.

[Illini Iceman]

If this deal goes thru (I don't think it will, there were too many parts involved yesterday, and now even more) where does Tampa play Ramirez? They've already got Upton that sweet Lou won't play. Tampa's got too many good prospects not to play and/or trade a few of them. This is a minor league fan's dream

 

Upton, Ramirez from Boston, Cantu, Milledge?, Delmon the Great as opposed to Dmitri the Lesser, Baldelli (surgery I know), Crawford, Shoppach, Gomes, and who else am I leaving out? Add Phelps in at DH/1st Base and you've got a crowd.

Gathright.

 

Phelps was released quite a while ago. Gaithright really seems like a speed only guy. He is not very good defensively and with his limited offense I think the is going to be a bench type player. The injury to Baldelli was bad for the Rays since he uses a year of eligibility and all signs are that he can't wait be be a FA and get off this team.

It is not quite fair to say that Piniella won't play Upton. The guy is awful defensively and they are trying to get him another year in the minors to see if there is any hope of him working out defensively as a SS. Unfortunately he is destined to be a DH IMO.

If this deal goes through it would be good for the Rays since Ramirez allows them to move Upton to DH and not worry about developing him as a SS and also clears a spot to bring up Young now to play every day because he looks ready. Cantu could move over and be the starting 3B next year.

[XZero771679666304]

Reyes and Wainright [sic] are still more than enough to get that deal done.

 

Wainwright is awful.

 

Awful? A little loose with the hyperbole aren't we?

 

4.17 ERA in the PCL is far from "awful".

 

True, but it's far from top notch too.

 

I think the difference is that Wainwright was a first round pick and the expectations at the major league level are higher.

 

Well I know the Braves had serious doubts about his ability to make it to and succeed at the ML level, and that contributed to their willingness to trade him. And the Braves rarely make bad decisions when it comes to young pitching.

[ThePenguin11]

Reyes and Wainright [sic] are still more than enough to get that deal done.

 

Wainwright is awful.

 

Awful? A little loose with the hyperbole aren't we?

 

4.17 ERA in the PCL is far from "awful".

 

True, but it's far from top notch too.

 

I think the difference is that Wainwright was a first round pick and the expectations at the major league level are higher.

 

Well I know the Braves had serious doubts about his ability to make it to and succeed at the ML level, and that contributed to their willingness to trade him. And the Braves rarely make bad decisions when it comes to young pitching.

 

Achoo! Juan Cruz. Achoo!

 

You're right though.

[bmkhawk]

Reyes and Wainright [sic] are still more than enough to get that deal done.

 

Wainwright is awful.

 

Awful? A little loose with the hyperbole aren't we?

 

4.17 ERA in the PCL is far from "awful".

 

True, but it's far from top notch too.

 

Well, I agree. But the statement was made that he was "awful" and that clearly is an exagerration.

[JeffH]

Exaggeration on an internet message board?

 

Schedule a press conference!

[bmkhawk]

Right, so it should just be accepted and tolerated?

 

Such constant exaggeration and "sky is falling" types of behavior with no accountability for such statements is clearly one of the unfortunate aspects of a message board.

[ThePenguin11]

/changes subject

 

Aramis is starting for the Cubs today.

[JeffH]

Feel free to call it out, but of course it should be accepted and tolerated.