Neither buyer nor seller

[Beer Kaese]

We lack too much to pin our hopes on a deal.

 

There has been enough time to determine if Murton could play left and fill that void but Dusty didn't give him a shot so Jim really doesn't know if he needs a leftfielder or a new manager.

 

Prior and Zambrano can get in a groove and carry a rotation. Maddux and Williams can eat innings and keep us in ball games. Wood or no Wood, we still have enough starting pitching to stay in the race.

 

Garciaparra and Williamson are around the corner and may address two needs. Offense at shortstop. Relief pitching.

 

If I'm Hendry I'm shopping Rusch and Hollandsworth. A contender could do worse than adding a nice back of the rotation guy who can be sent to the pen in the postseason and a solid PH/DH corner OFer who can play 1B and is a skilled part-time player. Trade Patterson? I'd get someone else's Corey in return. Move a volume of midlevel prospects (40 man/rule 5 trade) for a top level prospect of two? Find me a dumb GM.

 

Injuries hurt but they are part of the game.

 

Hendry had Cedeno, Dusty never gave him a shot.

 

Hendry had Murton, Dusty never gave him a shot.

 

Remind me again about the Braves .. they gained ground without Chipper and pitching, ok .. and they played inexperience kids, ok .. and they got healthy, ok .. caught and passed the Nationals and are on their way to another Eastern Crown .. and we have Dusty ..

 

To me, the biggest deadline deal Hendry can make doesn't need a partner.

 

I can't see us making a big deal. I think we need to get a good look at Murton and, to a lesser extent because he isn't 100%, Gerut. Cedeno should get more time at short and be Garciaparra's shortstop partner while he gets up to speed.

 

I have nothing against Hollandsworth or Perez. I like them as ball players and think they are good to have on a quality team. I just don't like how they are used by the current manager.

[HoopsCubs]

We lack too much to pin our hopes on a deal.

 

There has been enough time to determine if Murton could play left and fill that void but Dusty didn't give him a shot so Jim really doesn't know if he needs a leftfielder or a new manager.

 

Prior and Zambrano can get in a groove and carry a rotation. Maddux and Williams can eat innings and keep us in ball games. Wood or no Wood, we still have enough starting pitching to stay in the race.

 

Garciaparra and Williamson are around the corner and may address two needs. Offense at shortstop. Relief pitching.

 

If I'm Hendry I'm shopping Rusch and Hollandsworth. A contender could do worse than adding a nice back of the rotation guy who can be sent to the pen in the postseason and a solid PH/DH corner OFer who can play 1B and is a skilled part-time player. Trade Patterson? I'd get someone else's Corey in return. Move a volume of midlevel prospects (40 man/rule 5 trade) for a top level prospect of two? Find me a dumb GM.

 

Injuries hurt but they are part of the game.

 

Hendry had Cedeno, Dusty never gave him a shot.

 

Hendry had Murton, Dusty never gave him a shot.

 

Remind me again about the Braves .. they gained ground without Chipper and pitching, ok .. and they played inexperience kids, ok .. and they got healthy, ok .. caught and passed the Nationals and are on their way to another Eastern Crown .. and we have Dusty ..

 

To me, the biggest deadline deal Hendry can make doesn't need a partner.

 

I can't see us making a big deal. I think we need to get a good look at Murton and, to a lesser extent because he isn't 100%, Gerut. Cedeno should get more time at short and be Garciaparra's shortstop partner while he gets up to speed.

 

I have nothing against Hollandsworth or Perez. I like them as ball players and think they are good to have on a quality team. I just don't like how they are used by the current manager.

 

Have to be a buyer. We're 3 behind Houston and we play them 10 more times. You have to at least address OPS in LF and/or bullpen help - if not for 2005, then for 2006. Got to buy regardless if Nomar and Williamson are back or not.

[Wendy City]

With Wood and Williamson, I feel like our bullpen might be OK without a trade - though it's tough to depend on Wood. Nomar is an instant upgrade at short, that leaves us with LF. I'm open to any move at that position. We have to be buyers.

[katway]

I think we have a left fielder in Murton, but clearly Dusty is reluctant to play him everyday. I just wonder if we should give up prospects to get a left fielder when the solution is sitting on the bench. It's frustrating to see a need to trade for players because a coach doesn't play the best cards in the deck.

 

If we do trade for a left fielder this year, then I think we have to seriously consider moving murton to right next year and letting Burnitz go. That's a difficult prospect because Burny is such a pro. So, ultimately, a trade for a left fielder means no Burny next year since we need to get Murton some playing time.

[TripJ]

I think we have a left fielder in Murton, but clearly Dusty is reluctant to play him everyday. I just wonder if we should give up prospects to get a left fielder when the solution is sitting on the bench. It's frustrating to see a need to trade for players because a coach doesn't play the best cards in the deck.

 

If we do trade for a left fielder this year, then I think we have to seriously consider moving murton to right next year and letting Burnitz go. That's a difficult prospect because Burny is such a pro. So, ultimately, a trade for a left fielder means no Burny next year since we need to get Murton some playing time.

 

I could be wrong (wouldn't be the first time, even today!), but I think Burnitz has a pretty significant option in his contract next year that would likely prevent him from being back anyway.

[dalgreen]

It's hard to take any criticism of this team seriously if there is no talk about the bullpen. The bullpen relievers have 20 losses this year. Playing Murton and Cedeno does not impact the bullpen's ineffectiveness. Murton and Cedeno started yesterday and we still were shutout.... again, the bullpen allowed the game to get out of reach.

[HoopsCubs]

I think we have a left fielder in Murton, but clearly Dusty is reluctant to play him everyday. I just wonder if we should give up prospects to get a left fielder when the solution is sitting on the bench. It's frustrating to see a need to trade for players because a coach doesn't play the best cards in the deck.

 

If we do trade for a left fielder this year, then I think we have to seriously consider moving murton to right next year and letting Burnitz go. That's a difficult prospect because Burny is such a pro. So, ultimately, a trade for a left fielder means no Burny next year since we need to get Murton some playing time.

 

I could be wrong (wouldn't be the first time, even today!), but I think Burnitz has a pretty significant option in his contract next year that would likely prevent him from being back anyway.

 

Cubs hold a $7M option on Burnitz in 2006. I would say it's less than 2% probability that they exercise it. But, as you know, OF is very slim on the free agent list, so I wouldn't be shocked if they brought Burny back in Jan/Feb timeframe for $3-4M.

[Sabermetrician]

I think we have a left fielder in Murton, but clearly Dusty is reluctant to play him everyday. I just wonder if we should give up prospects to get a left fielder when the solution is sitting on the bench. It's frustrating to see a need to trade for players because a coach doesn't play the best cards in the deck.

 

If we do trade for a left fielder this year, then I think we have to seriously consider moving murton to right next year and letting Burnitz go. That's a difficult prospect because Burny is such a pro. So, ultimately, a trade for a left fielder means no Burny next year since we need to get Murton some playing time.

 

I could be wrong (wouldn't be the first time, even today!), but I think Burnitz has a pretty significant option in his contract next year that would likely prevent him from being back anyway.

 

The Cubs and Burnitz have a mutual $7 million option for next season. There's a $500,000 buyout if Burnitz is not back -- but he doesn't get the buyout if the Cubs exercise the option and Burnitz declines it.

[Sabermetrician]

I think we have a left fielder in Murton, but clearly Dusty is reluctant to play him everyday. I just wonder if we should give up prospects to get a left fielder when the solution is sitting on the bench. It's frustrating to see a need to trade for players because a coach doesn't play the best cards in the deck.

 

If we do trade for a left fielder this year, then I think we have to seriously consider moving murton to right next year and letting Burnitz go. That's a difficult prospect because Burny is such a pro. So, ultimately, a trade for a left fielder means no Burny next year since we need to get Murton some playing time.

 

I could be wrong (wouldn't be the first time, even today!), but I think Burnitz has a pretty significant option in his contract next year that would likely prevent him from being back anyway.

 

Cubs hold a $7M option on Burnitz in 2006. I would say it's less than 2% probability that they exercise it. But, as you know, OF is very slim on the free agent list, so I wouldn't be shocked if they brought Burny back in Jan/Feb timeframe for $3-4M.

 

I know I was one of the few that actually liked the Burnitz signing at the time, but I would agree that there's probably only a low chance he's back next year for $7 million. I think Burnitz would want to be back and the Cubs will want him back (so far, at least) and both sides will try to work something out to keep him on the Cubs for a lesser amount of money.

[Beer Kaese]

We lack too much to pin our hopes on a deal.

 

There has been enough time to determine if Murton could play left and fill that void but Dusty didn't give him a shot so Jim really doesn't know if he needs a leftfielder or a new manager.

 

Prior and Zambrano can get in a groove and carry a rotation. Maddux and Williams can eat innings and keep us in ball games. Wood or no Wood, we still have enough starting pitching to stay in the race.

 

Garciaparra and Williamson are around the corner and may address two needs. Offense at shortstop. Relief pitching.

 

If I'm Hendry I'm shopping Rusch and Hollandsworth. A contender could do worse than adding a nice back of the rotation guy who can be sent to the pen in the postseason and a solid PH/DH corner OFer who can play 1B and is a skilled part-time player. Trade Patterson? I'd get someone else's Corey in return. Move a volume of midlevel prospects (40 man/rule 5 trade) for a top level prospect of two? Find me a dumb GM.

 

Injuries hurt but they are part of the game.

 

Hendry had Cedeno, Dusty never gave him a shot.

 

Hendry had Murton, Dusty never gave him a shot.

 

Remind me again about the Braves .. they gained ground without Chipper and pitching, ok .. and they played inexperience kids, ok .. and they got healthy, ok .. caught and passed the Nationals and are on their way to another Eastern Crown .. and we have Dusty ..

 

To me, the biggest deadline deal Hendry can make doesn't need a partner.

 

I can't see us making a big deal. I think we need to get a good look at Murton and, to a lesser extent because he isn't 100%, Gerut. Cedeno should get more time at short and be Garciaparra's shortstop partner while he gets up to speed.

 

I have nothing against Hollandsworth or Perez. I like them as ball players and think they are good to have on a quality team. I just don't like how they are used by the current manager.

 

Have to be a buyer. We're 3 behind Houston and we play them 10 more times. You have to at least address OPS in LF and/or bullpen help - if not for 2005, then for 2006. Got to buy regardless if Nomar and Williamson are back or not.

 

What part of Murton's .483 .543 .552 1.095 doesn't warrant a start against a righthanded pitcher?

 

Do we need a leftfielder Hoops?

[dalgreen]

We lack too much to pin our hopes on a deal.

 

There has been enough time to determine if Murton could play left and fill that void but Dusty didn't give him a shot so Jim really doesn't know if he needs a leftfielder or a new manager.

 

Prior and Zambrano can get in a groove and carry a rotation. Maddux and Williams can eat innings and keep us in ball games. Wood or no Wood, we still have enough starting pitching to stay in the race.

 

Garciaparra and Williamson are around the corner and may address two needs. Offense at shortstop. Relief pitching.

 

If I'm Hendry I'm shopping Rusch and Hollandsworth. A contender could do worse than adding a nice back of the rotation guy who can be sent to the pen in the postseason and a solid PH/DH corner OFer who can play 1B and is a skilled part-time player. Trade Patterson? I'd get someone else's Corey in return. Move a volume of midlevel prospects (40 man/rule 5 trade) for a top level prospect of two? Find me a dumb GM.

 

Injuries hurt but they are part of the game.

 

Hendry had Cedeno, Dusty never gave him a shot.

 

Hendry had Murton, Dusty never gave him a shot.

 

Remind me again about the Braves .. they gained ground without Chipper and pitching, ok .. and they played inexperience kids, ok .. and they got healthy, ok .. caught and passed the Nationals and are on their way to another Eastern Crown .. and we have Dusty ..

 

To me, the biggest deadline deal Hendry can make doesn't need a partner.

 

I can't see us making a big deal. I think we need to get a good look at Murton and, to a lesser extent because he isn't 100%, Gerut. Cedeno should get more time at short and be Garciaparra's shortstop partner while he gets up to speed.

 

I have nothing against Hollandsworth or Perez. I like them as ball players and think they are good to have on a quality team. I just don't like how they are used by the current manager.

 

Have to be a buyer. We're 3 behind Houston and we play them 10 more times. You have to at least address OPS in LF and/or bullpen help - if not for 2005, then for 2006. Got to buy regardless if Nomar and Williamson are back or not.

 

What part of Murton's .483 .543 .552 1.095 doesn't warrant a start against a righthanded pitcher?

 

Do we need a leftfielder Hoops?

 

I know it's hard to believe, but the Cubs were shut out even with Cedeno and Murton in the lineup. It has been apparent when our 2-5 hitters don't get on base and drive in runs, we get shut down. Our bullpen has been the biggest reason why we're consistently inconsistent.

[Beer Kaese]

We lack too much to pin our hopes on a deal.

 

There has been enough time to determine if Murton could play left and fill that void but Dusty didn't give him a shot so Jim really doesn't know if he needs a leftfielder or a new manager.

 

Prior and Zambrano can get in a groove and carry a rotation. Maddux and Williams can eat innings and keep us in ball games. Wood or no Wood, we still have enough starting pitching to stay in the race.

 

Garciaparra and Williamson are around the corner and may address two needs. Offense at shortstop. Relief pitching.

 

If I'm Hendry I'm shopping Rusch and Hollandsworth. A contender could do worse than adding a nice back of the rotation guy who can be sent to the pen in the postseason and a solid PH/DH corner OFer who can play 1B and is a skilled part-time player. Trade Patterson? I'd get someone else's Corey in return. Move a volume of midlevel prospects (40 man/rule 5 trade) for a top level prospect of two? Find me a dumb GM.

 

Injuries hurt but they are part of the game.

 

Hendry had Cedeno, Dusty never gave him a shot.

 

Hendry had Murton, Dusty never gave him a shot.

 

Remind me again about the Braves .. they gained ground without Chipper and pitching, ok .. and they played inexperience kids, ok .. and they got healthy, ok .. caught and passed the Nationals and are on their way to another Eastern Crown .. and we have Dusty ..

 

To me, the biggest deadline deal Hendry can make doesn't need a partner.

 

I can't see us making a big deal. I think we need to get a good look at Murton and, to a lesser extent because he isn't 100%, Gerut. Cedeno should get more time at short and be Garciaparra's shortstop partner while he gets up to speed.

 

I have nothing against Hollandsworth or Perez. I like them as ball players and think they are good to have on a quality team. I just don't like how they are used by the current manager.

 

Have to be a buyer. We're 3 behind Houston and we play them 10 more times. You have to at least address OPS in LF and/or bullpen help - if not for 2005, then for 2006. Got to buy regardless if Nomar and Williamson are back or not.

 

What part of Murton's .483 .543 .552 1.095 doesn't warrant a start against a righthanded pitcher?

 

Do we need a leftfielder Hoops?

 

I know it's hard to believe, but the Cubs were shut out even with Cedeno and Murton in the lineup. It has been apparent when our 2-5 hitters don't get on base and drive in runs, we get shut down. Our bullpen has been the biggest reason why we're consistently inconsistent.

 

Which is why:

 

1) A deal doesn't help.

 

2a) We need a good look at young (cheap) players.

 

2b) We fire Dusty so we can look at young (cheap) players.

 

Until we have some clue as to the value (as seen at the major league level) of kids like Murton and Cedeno, as well as Gerut, we have no idea what we have, let alone what we need.

 

In the situation we are in, Dusty have a negative value. He costs us because he kills the kids.

[hawkeyecub]

 

Which is why:

 

1) A deal doesn't help.

 

 

Really?

[Beer Kaese]

 

Which is why:

 

1) A deal doesn't help.

 

 

Really?

 

Yes really.

 

Hollandsworth for July: .206 .271 .365 .637

 

I don't remember, was Patterson that bad?

 

The first move, fire Dusty.

[hawkeyecub]

 

Which is why:

 

1) A deal doesn't help.

 

 

Really?

 

Yes really.

 

Hollandsworth for July: .206 .271 .365 .637

 

I don't remember, was Patterson that bad?

 

The first move, fire Dusty.

 

What? Isn't Hollandsworth's poor line the reason for making a deal in the first place?

 

So adding Soriano (or any upgrade) to LF doesn't help?

[Beer Kaese]

 

Which is why:

 

1) A deal doesn't help.

 

 

Really?

 

Yes really.

 

Hollandsworth for July: .206 .271 .365 .637

 

I don't remember, was Patterson that bad?

 

The first move, fire Dusty.

 

What? Isn't Hollandsworth's poor line the reason for making a deal in the first place?

 

So adding Soriano (or any upgrade) to LF doesn't help?

 

Can Murton play LF? He's been here for three weeks, Hollandsworth is a part-time player in a slump and our Manager can't tell me if Murton is able to play LF. Fired!

[hawkeyecub]

Wow.

[Beer Kaese]

Wow.

 

Yes wow. The Braves gained ground with kids like Murton while Dusty stuck with guys like Hollandsworth. Surely your not going to suggest the Cubs had injuries and the Braves didn't. The Cards are getting rocked by injuries and they seem to be ok with a weak farm system. What's wrong with us?

[hawkeyecub]

Seriously what are you talking about?

 

The only thing I asked you is how you could say that a deal wouldn't help. It's ridiculous.

[Beer Kaese]

Seriously what are you talking about?

 

The only thing I asked you is how you could say that a deal wouldn't help. It's ridiculous.

 

Back to the original. Do we need a leftfielder? Because of our Manager we can't answer that question. We can spend money and block kids but we can't answer the question.

 

What was your point?

[hawkeyecub]

Seriously what are you talking about?

 

The only thing I asked you is how you could say that a deal wouldn't help. It's ridiculous.

 

Back to the original. Do we need a leftfielder? Because of our Manager we can't answer that question. We can spend money and block kids but we can't answer the question.

 

What was your point?

 

Holy cow.

 

My point was that you said no deal would help, and that's insane. There's always a deal that can help any team, regardless of who they already have. The right deal isn't always available, but there's always spots on your team that you can upgrade. You're saying a deal won't help us and that's plain wrong.

You're saying Manny Ramirez wouldn't help? You'd rather have Murton in LF everyday, than Manny?

[Beer Kaese]

Seriously what are you talking about?

 

The only thing I asked you is how you could say that a deal wouldn't help. It's ridiculous.

 

Back to the original. Do we need a leftfielder? Because of our Manager we can't answer that question. We can spend money and block kids but we can't answer the question.

 

What was your point?

 

Holy cow.

 

My point was that you said no deal would help, and that's insane. There's always a deal that can help any team, regardless of who they already have. The right deal isn't always available, but there's always spots on your team that you can upgrade. You're saying a deal won't help us and that's plain wrong.

You're saying Manny Ramirez wouldn't help? You'd rather have Murton in LF everyday, than Manny?

 

I see, you're saying we can trade Murton for Ramirez and that would help.

 

My point is Dusty isn't working out. When we get injuries he plays part-time vets and doesn't look at help from kids (ala Braves, Cards or any other team with a Manager with a brain) but, point taken. Trade Murton, Gerut and Macias for Manny Ramirez. Piece of cake!

[dalgreen]

Seriously what are you talking about?

 

The only thing I asked you is how you could say that a deal wouldn't help. It's ridiculous.

 

Back to the original. Do we need a leftfielder? Because of our Manager we can't answer that question. We can spend money and block kids but we can't answer the question.

 

What was your point?

 

Holy cow.

 

My point was that you said no deal would help, and that's insane. There's always a deal that can help any team, regardless of who they already have. The right deal isn't always available, but there's always spots on your team that you can upgrade. You're saying a deal won't help us and that's plain wrong.

You're saying Manny Ramirez wouldn't help? You'd rather have Murton in LF everyday, than Manny?

 

I see, you're saying we can trade Murton for Ramirez and that would help.

 

My point is Dusty isn't working out. When we get injuries he plays part-time vets and doesn't look at help from kids (ala Braves, Cards or any other team with a Manager with a brain) but, point taken. Trade Murton, Gerut and Macias for Manny Ramirez. Piece of cake!

 

You really seem to have fallen into the one-dimensional thinker that many blame Baker of having. Do you really see no need whatsoever to improve the bullpen? If the score is left at 1-0 yesterday, maybe, just maybe we can get one or two runs. Once it got to 3-0 or 6-0, the game was over. Please, stop thinking it was just the kids in Atlanta that got them in first place. One, the Nationals are having a monumental collapse, and two the Braves pitching is not nearly as bad as the Cubs. If playing the kids is the answer to everything, why is Colorado so bad?

[CubfaninCA]

The Cubs need a 6 hitter and #3 pitcher. Can't start selling when they're 3 behind Houston, w/ 10 games left against them.

[Beer Kaese]

Seriously what are you talking about?

 

The only thing I asked you is how you could say that a deal wouldn't help. It's ridiculous.

 

Back to the original. Do we need a leftfielder? Because of our Manager we can't answer that question. We can spend money and block kids but we can't answer the question.

 

What was your point?

 

Holy cow.

 

My point was that you said no deal would help, and that's insane. There's always a deal that can help any team, regardless of who they already have. The right deal isn't always available, but there's always spots on your team that you can upgrade. You're saying a deal won't help us and that's plain wrong.

You're saying Manny Ramirez wouldn't help? You'd rather have Murton in LF everyday, than Manny?

 

I see, you're saying we can trade Murton for Ramirez and that would help.

 

My point is Dusty isn't working out. When we get injuries he plays part-time vets and doesn't look at help from kids (ala Braves, Cards or any other team with a Manager with a brain) but, point taken. Trade Murton, Gerut and Macias for Manny Ramirez. Piece of cake!

 

You really seem to have fallen into the one-dimensional thinker that many blame Baker of having. Do you really see no need whatsoever to improve the bullpen? If the score is left at 1-0 yesterday, maybe, just maybe we can get one or two runs. Once it got to 3-0 or 6-0, the game was over. Please, stop thinking it was just the kids in Atlanta that got them in first place. One, the Nationals are having a monumental collapse, and two the Braves pitching is not nearly as bad as the Cubs. If playing the kids is the answer to everything, why is Colorado so bad?

 

Dusty Baker is so bad that I can't even see the bullpen.

 

Hendry gave him the arms the same way he gave him the bats. So, he doesn't use the bats.