Running Full Speed Out of the Box

[fiver]

Could the acceptance of nonchalant baserunning in baseball be related to the same societal issues as sloppy spelling and grammar on internet message boards?

 

These issues may be somewhat related only in that people all over the world tend to not give it their all in most things they do. However, none of us (or few of us I should say) are making a living by providing our thoughts on message boards. In fact, many of us are using laptops and typing while having an adult beverage or reclining after a hard day's work. I don't see a strong comparison b/w that and a major league player running out each ball he/she hits. And frankly, I'm not certain how it has become an accepted practice. Managers are responsible for their team's production, correct? Their job largely depends on their team winning.

 

Could this be about managers losing authority with their team because of the ever increasing salaries of today's players?

Edited July 27, 2005 by fiver

[Electron Blue]

I think we just witnessed a perfect example of this on Macias' sac bunt. If he hustles down that line, he might've beat it out. Even if he didn't he puts the pressure on the pitcher to make a quick, perfect throw. A player not hustling out of the box shouldn't even be talked about because it is something that should always be done.

 

I came to post the same example. Personally, I'm not sure he could have made it. But it's inexcusable that we even have to wonder . . .

[Fro]

The only excuse for not running hard is if they have leg injuries or if they are a pitcher. If these guys can't sprint 90 ft without getting gassed they shouldn't be playing baseball.

 

Like everyone else said, it puts a lot of pressure on the fielder to make the right play in time.

[10man]

Could the acceptance of nonchalant baserunning in baseball be related to the same societal issues as sloppy spelling and grammar on internet message boards?

 

These issues may be somewhat related only in that people all over the world tend to not give it their all in most things they do. However, none of us (or few of us I should say) are making a living by providing our thoughts on message boards. In fact, many of us are using laptops and typing while having an adult beverage or reclining after a hard day's work. I don't see a strong comparison b/w that and a major league player running out each ball he/she hits. And frankly, I'm not certain how it has become an accepted practice. Managers are responsible for their team's production, correct? Their job largely depends on their team winning.

 

Could this be about managers losing authority with their team because the ever increasing salaries of today's players?

Nope. For major leaguers it is their JOB to play hard. That's what they are paid to do. Now if you would be nonchalant with your reports at work and not pay attention to spelling and grammar in the office, then that would be a more apt analogy.

[UBlink]

Could the acceptance of nonchalant baserunning in baseball be related to the same societal issues as sloppy spelling and grammar on internet message boards?

 

These issues may be somewhat related only in that people all over the world tend to not give it their all in most things they do. However, none of us (or few of us I should say) are making a living by providing our thoughts on message boards. In fact, many of us are using laptops and typing while having an adult beverage or reclining after a hard day's work. I don't see a strong comparison b/w that and a major league player running out each ball he/she hits. And frankly, I'm not certain how it has become an accepted practice. Managers are responsible for their team's production, correct? Their job largely depends on their team winning.

 

Could this be about managers losing authority with their team because the ever increasing salaries of today's players?

Nope. For major leaguers it is their JOB to play hard. That's what they are paid to do. Now if you would be nonchalant with your reports at work and not pay attention to spelling and grammar in the office, then that would be a more apt analogy.

 

I don't think I'm the problem in the workplace, although there are people who work for me and around me...

 

I guess I mentioned it because both things hit the same emotional chord with me - "I knew I was out" sounds a lot like "You know what I meant".

[Balsa]

The only excuse for not running hard is if they have leg injuries or if they are a pitcher. If these guys can't sprint 90 ft without getting gassed they shouldn't be playing baseball.

 

Like everyone else said, it puts a lot of pressure on the fielder to make the right play in time.

 

This is why I don't always expect Aramis to leg it out. Frankly, he's had more than his share of strained and pulled muscles. Nothing to place him on the DL, but enough to take him out of some games. I'd rather see him be careful unless it's running on a sac fly.

[radarluv1]

i thought this was a thread about nomar, or how much hustle or caution we will want from him.

but i think hairstons play on tues. night cost them a run. if he gets to 2nd, walkers grounder moves him to 3rd, we end up scoring. i wouldnt bench him for it with macias as an alternative, but a good chewing out would have been necessary.

[oldcubsfan]

Both Hairston and Aram have sore legs.

[Balsa]

From the Cubs website:

 

Ramirez, who is batting .312 with 74 RBIs, injured his right quad when he ran to first in the first. His status is day-to-day.

[fiver]

From the Cubs website:

 

Ramirez, who is batting .312 with 74 RBIs, injured his right quad when he ran to first in the first. His status is day-to-day.

 

Balsa...I wasn't able to see the game yesterday, but that certainly explains why Aramis would have appeared to have been loafing in that game. However, I think it may have already been mentioned in this thread that he also was jogging to first for the entire St. Louis series. I understand that Aramis has leg problems quite often. He battled through a hamstring injury last season, and now his quad is evidently giving him problems now. Perhaps he always takes it easy out of the box as a preventative measure. I don't want him injured either, but he's certainly not the only one on the team that I've noticed that could have either reached safely or taken an extra base if they hadn't given up on a play. I'm hoping that Hairston had leg problems on Tuesday, because if he didn't he was loafing. Even on sacrafice bunts, it would be preferrable for our runners to put as much pressure on the fielder as possible. Several mentioned that Macias jogged to first after his bunt yesterday.

 

Injuries are one thing, but I'm not certain that excuse entirely explains the apparent lack of effort that has been put forth on the basepaths this season.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

i thought this was a thread about nomar, or how much hustle or caution we will want from him.

but i think hairstons play on tues. night cost them a run. if he gets to 2nd, walkers grounder moves him to 3rd, we end up scoring. i wouldnt bench him for it with macias as an alternative, but a good chewing out would have been necessary.

 

Chewing them out would be nice, but for some of these guys, I don't think it'd work. I propose that we instate a small fine for not running it out. Nothing major, maybe only like 100 dollars or something. If these guys can be fined for being late for team meeting's, practices, and buses, they can damn sure be fined for being late to first base. That's just the way I'd do it if I was in charge.

 

Of course, if I were in charge, things would be different... much different.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

Does anyone remember a few years ago when Carlton Fisk got up in Deion Sanders' face for not running out a grounder. It seriously pissed Fisk off. I believe he said something like, "Have some respect for the game that made you rich. Play it the way it's supposed to be played." Of course Deion didn't think he did anything wrong.

[Coach C]

Does anyone remember a few years ago when Carlton Fisk got up in Deion Sanders' face for not running out a grounder. It seriously pissed Fisk off. I believe he said something like, "Have some respect for the game that made you rich. Play it the way it's supposed to be played." Of course Deion didn't think he did anything wrong.

 

Yeah, I remember that one was in May 1990, when Fisk was the catcher for the Sox, and Deion was playing for the Yanks, and Deion makes a pop-out and just stand there like he was already going to be out. Fisk said something along the lines of Run the Ball out or something

 

Deion goes, "What?"

 

Fisk: "Run the ball out, you piece of (bleep)."

 

So he runs up and takes a little right turn about the 45-foot marker.

 

I believe that one article was in the Boston Harold. Here is a link that shows it.

 

http://www.sohh.com/forums/printthread.php?t=473663

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

Yeah, I saw the Sportscentury on Fisk, and they talked about it there. Fisk is still mad about it to this day.

[BleedCubbieBlue81]

Great article

 

He comes up the next time and does the same friggin' thing. The dollar sign in the dirt. I don't know if I ought to be telling this on TV or not. I go, "Oh, man, I'm ready. This guy's just really going to take it right to the edge."

 

So he steps in (the batter's box) and he goes, "Hey, man, the days of slavery are over."

 

I went (voice rises), "What? What's this got to do with that? It doesn't make any difference what color you are, what color I am."

 

And that's when things started. I said, "There's a right way and a wrong way to play the game, and you're playing it wrong. And guess what? It offends guys like me. So if you don't play this friggin' game right, I'm going to kick your (butt) right here at home plate of Yankee Stadium."

 

But to preface the whole thing, he used to come up to home plate and take his bat and draw a dollar sign in the dirt. Every time he'd come up, he'd do that.

 

Yep, that sounds like Deion to me.

 

And why I would say that to a guy wearing the Yankee uniform, after wearing the Red Sox uniform all the time, I don't know. But there's a certain respect for the game, the Yankees, Yankee Stadium, the tradition. I don't care whether you're playing in San Diego, Cincinnati or where you are. You're wearing this uniform; you represent more than just yourself. He wasn't representing anything but himself, and I swear there are guys that would turn over in their graves watching this guy play baseball in Yankee Stadium. And it offended me. We had the greatest rivalry in the history of the American League - the Red Sox and the Yankees - and this guy was stomping all over it.

 

Now that's poetry...

[BigbadB]

Bad hamstrings aside, giving half effort is why many teams never reach the playoffs. While no one play will usually have that much of an impact, hustling because you know it's right and because you love the game and because you want to win and you want to inspire your teammates makes it the right thing to do.

 

Last year, Moises Alou kicked a ball into the ivy because he was too lazy to pick it up. Instead of holding the guy to a double, the guy circles the bases and gets an inside the park home run. Dusty may have ridden him hard in the dugout, but that's just not enough for the fans. The fans don't see that. Show the fans that you will not accept lazy, half effort. Sit the guy down, and then make him watch tapes of laziness. Make him watch his own laziness for an hour or two. Lecture him and sit him if he doesn't change his ways.

 

If the players like playing for Dusty because it is acceptable to kick a ball into the ivy rather than pick it up, or to run out a ground ball, it's just further proof that Dusty is not a good manager.

 

Alou was never taken out of that game. To me it appeared as though it was an acceptable practice to be lazy and try to cheat to get your wished result.

[fiver]

Bad hamstrings aside, giving half effort is why many teams never reach the playoffs. While no one play will usually have that much of an impact, hustling because you know it's right and because you love the game and because you want to win and you want to inspire your teammates makes it the right thing to do.

 

Last year, Moises Alou kicked a ball into the ivy because he was too lazy to pick it up. Instead of holding the guy to a double, the guy circles the bases and gets an inside the park home run. Dusty may have ridden him hard in the dugout, but that's just not enough for the fans. The fans don't see that. Show the fans that you will not accept lazy, half effort. Sit the guy down, and then make him watch tapes of laziness. Make him watch his own laziness for an hour or two. Lecture him and sit him if he doesn't change his ways.

 

If the players like playing for Dusty because it is acceptable to kick a ball into the ivy rather than pick it up, or to run out a ground ball, it's just further proof that Dusty is not a good manager.

 

Alou was never taken out of that game. To me it appeared as though it was an acceptable practice to be lazy and try to cheat to get your wished result.

 

That play also stands out in my mind, BbB.

 

I saw the article on Cubs.com where Dusty was stating that he thinks he'll probably be the next person to be booed extensively at Wrigley. I can respect his decision to ease Murton and Cedeno into the game..I can respect his decision to give Corey Patterson many chances to prove himself as a leadoff hitter. I think we all wanted that to work successfully. Hell, I don't even hate Macias like most on this board. From some of the camera shots I see on television, Macias seems to keep the club kinda loose...and he is hitting close to .300 even though he shows little discipline at the plate. I'm going to go as far as saying that Cedeno probably wouldn't perform as well as Neifi has this season.

 

I don't respect a manager whose team loafs..at any level. If a guy loafs, I want Dusty to run out of the dugout, grab the individual by the ear (ok..so maybe we don't want Coach Knight on the diamond), and let him sit for the remainder of the day. You made a point about these instances adding up over a season, and I certainly think they already have to some degree.

[UK1679666180]

Could this be about managers losing authority with their team because of the ever increasing salaries of today's players?

 

Not all managers tolerate it, some more than others. Just look at who's in Atlanta as far as someone who won't tolerate it.

 

You see more dogging it/hot-dogging in the IF than any other spot, even more than the OF.

[scs_paradise]

three managers that I love because they embody this philosophy:

 

Ned Yost

Tony L (even though I can't stand him otherwise)

Bobby Cox (the way he handled andrew jones was great...)

[Balsa]

I'm hoping that Hairston had leg problems on Tuesday, because if he didn't he was loafing.

 

Jerry Hairston did not start Wednesday because of a bruise on his left calf from a foul ball in the first inning Tuesday night.

 

"It just got worse," Hairston said of his leg.

 

He's been fouling a lot of pitches off his feet and legs it seems lately.

 

"It hurts more on the bone but it doesn't really affect you," he said. "You get it right on the muscle and it just [tightens] up."

 

Hairston's game-time status was day-to-day, but he was available to pinch-hit, Baker said.

 

 

Even on sacrafice bunts, it would be preferrable for our runners to put as much pressure on the fielder as possible. Several mentioned that Macias jogged to first after his bunt yesterday.

Yeah. That was inexcusable. You'd think as a bench player he'd be just itching to get into play, but I suppose he thought it was foul and decided to stop. It looked like it could have landed either way.

 

Injuries are one thing, but I'm not certain that excuse entirely explains the apparent lack of effort that has been put forth on the basepaths this season.

This is true, although I'd rather Aram be careful than end up on the DL, especially with his rather awesome hitting lately.

[sporrer17]

Players who hustle just seem to make things happen. Murton hits a roller to 3rd that maybe Aramis/whoever wouldn't exactly run out, but Murton is hustling his *you know what* off and the fielder rushes his throw, putting Murton on 1st.

 

Any type of ground ball, run your absolute hardest. Ramirez hits what should be a double play to possibly the best defensive SS of the 90's against the Giants...he boots it. Anything's possible, folks. Give 100% on every play, every day, and things will begin to go your way. Have to make your own breaks...

 

*I'm done with cliches, resume your normal reading routines*

[frostwyrm]

I remember plays where Alou would hit a grounder to SS or 3B and start jogging to first base. The defender would muff the ball pretty badly, Alou would then notice and try to accelerate, but still get thrown out at first. Not hustling is always bad, but you should at least run while you're waiting to see if the defender fields the ball cleanly.