Murton

[ZZ Thorn]

Well that's terrible, just plain wrong, and quite frankly anti-American.

[imb]

St. Neifi (396PA, 4.4 VORP - brutal!).

 

wow, much worse than i thought.

 

GREAT evidence against all those who talk about how great neifi is for a backup shortstop. this just show that he's not great at all. he's basically replacement level.

 

Yeah right, something tells me that the people who think Neifi has been great arent exactly the kind of people that look at stats like VORP.

[E.J.]

St. Neifi (396PA, 4.4 VORP - brutal!).

 

wow, much worse than i thought.

 

GREAT evidence against all those who talk about how great neifi is for a backup shortstop. this just show that he's not great at all. he's basically replacement level.

 

Yeah right, something tells me that the people who think Neifi has been great arent exactly the kind of people that look at stats like VORP.

 

Nope. They're just looking at his .265 BA and thinking, "hey that's not that bad."

[Brian]

Fun fact Murton is hitting .300 against Right Handers... must be those special right handers that Dusty feels he can be succesful against.

[SanJoseCubsFan]

ESPN has

vs. Right 9 0 2 1 0 0 1 1 0 5 0 0 .222 .273 .333 .606

 

Most of his strikeouts vs rightys. I want him to progress. People have to understand it is ok to put young players in the best situation. He is gaining confidence. It is the way it is done in business and sports. Saying that I expect he will see more playing time. It is not just Dusty it is the way the Cubs run their organization. Look, the best player will play over time. Cubs are getting decent production from LF and keeping the roster happy at the same time. I expect him to play more over the next month, baring a trade, vs RHP. Just my 2 cents

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Cubs are getting decent production from LF

 

Incorrect.

[imb]

ESPN has

vs. Right 9 0 2 1 0 0 1 1 0 5 0 0 .222 .273 .333 .606

 

Most of his strikeouts vs rightys. I want him to progress. People have to understand it is ok to put young players in the best situation. He is gaining confidence. It is the way it is done in business and sports. Saying that I expect he will see more playing time. It is not just Dusty it is the way the Cubs run their organization. Look, the best player will play over time. Cubs are getting decent production from LF and keeping the roster happy at the same time. I expect him to play more over the next month, baring a trade, vs RHP. Just my 2 cents

 

Leftfield is the one behind third base, btw.

[VVMattVV]

People have to understand it is ok to put young players in the best situation.

 

I disagree. When a player is young like Murton and is developing, it is best that he gets to play everyday and to develop and mature as a player. You don't learn much sitting on the bench. He will have to hit righties some day, he needs to play now.

[sporrer17]

Matt Murton is a very solid hitter for average, and he was probably on pace for about 15 HRs this year, or around there. 15 HRs in a pitcher friendly league (in AA, or any level of the minors) isn't bad. Generally, players develop power as they get older. Sosa didn't start hitting HRs (don't bring up steroids...) until he was 24 (hit 33) but his highest total in the minors was 11 in 519 ABs...he's 5th on the all time list.

 

Lee had very good power numbers in the minors, but he also went up from 4.2 HRs per 100 ABs in the minors to 4.6 in the majors (prior to this year)...

 

In over 1000 ABs in the minors, Raffy hit 28 HRs...he's had 28 HRs in almost all of his prime years. Plus, he hit 26 when he was 26, 22 at the age of 27...and he finally broke the 30 mark (37) when he hit the age of 28.

 

Oh, also keep in mind the fact that Murton has won HR contests in the past, and also is said to keep pace with Sing/Pie in batting practice longball....so it's not like he's a weakling. He may just swing for base hits, because *gasp*, sometimes those are just as effective, and much easier to obtain.

[sporrer17]

Also, for comparison, Jason Dubois (considered to have good-great raw power) hit 15 in 443 ABs in AA West Tenn...the same guy who hit 31 in less than 40 ABs last year in AAA. The same guy who had 20 HR in 361 ABs in '02, and 24 in 443 ABs in '01...

 

Banged up or not, Dubois also struggled with power in that stadium.

 

He also had 13 last year at High A ball, so he's got power, it's just got a little ways to go before he starts hitting them regularly.

 

I'm going to go out on a ledge and call a HR from Murton tomorrow (facing Halsey) just so the people concerned about his supposed "lack of power" will shut up :lol: *I'll be at the game again today, I'd love to see Murton play...and we have bleacher tix too...gonna have fun with this...

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Also, for comparison, Jason Dubois (considered to have good-great raw power) hit 15 in 443 ABs in AA West Tenn...the same guy who hit 31 in less than 40 ABs last year in AAA. The same guy who had 20 HR in 361 ABs in '02, and 24 in 443 ABs in '01...

 

Banged up or not, Dubois also struggled with power in that stadium.

 

He also had 13 last year at High A ball, so he's got power, it's just got a little ways to go before he starts hitting them regularly.

 

I'm going to go out on a ledge and call a HR from Murton tomorrow (facing Halsey) just so the people concerned about his supposed "lack of power" will shut up :lol: *I'll be at the game again today, I'd love to see Murton play...and we have bleacher tix too...gonna have fun with this...

 

Dubois's IsoP at AA was nearly .200, that's a bit of a difference from Murton's numbers.

[sporrer17]

As opposed to Murton's .156, Dubois' .189 is hardly a significant upgrade, especially considering that Murton strikes out less, is a much better athlete, has potential to steal bases, and hit for a high average. Dubois relied on his power and power only. Murton K's about 10 less times every 100 ABs...(at least according to minor league #s)

 

I'll take a .300/.365/.450 hitter in LF who can hit 15-20 HRs, swipe 15-20 bags, and take a decent amount of walks...he'd be an ideal #2 hitter, especially with his small ball skills.

 

Say Murton continues to progress and gets his IsoP over .180 by next year, does that then mean he may be a legit threat, power wise? Or does he still need to improve it to over .200?? Personally, if the guy can hit .300/.360 with 20 SB and 15 HR, he can be my (speedier) Mark Grace for the next decade.

[MPrior]

I've often heard (and I agree) that, in a minor league player, plate discipline is the single best indicator of future success in the major leagues. I'm not saying there aren't exceptions, or that there aren't other reliable predictors, but in general, it seems to be the most useful. And Murton has more than proved that he has plenty of plate discipline.

 

Secondly, as was already pointed out but I believe is worth mentioning again, power usually develops a bit later in a player's career. It's much, much easier to teach a player to hit for more power than it is to teach plate discipline (why Patterson struggles so much, I believe, is that plate discipline is a very hard-learned skill).

 

And recently, we've been drooling for a while over a number of players with good plate discipline and minimal power (Juan Pierre most recently, although I don't even think his plate discipline is that great). So now we've got one and we're paying him basically nothing. And the fact that he plays LF instead of CF or 2B isn't a reason not to play him.

 

I understand that I may be preaching to choir, and not entirely addressing the issue, but it's worth pointing out.

 

And lastly, I would never be against Hendry picking up a good LF bat, especially if he can pull it off like many of his past trades (I mean, if you think about it, he's gotten us Ramirez, Lee, Nomar, and - yes - Matt Murton for essentially nothing. That's impressive.)

[NorthsideAvenger]

I love "The Creature's" raw potential, but compare to Murton, Dubois is Rob Deer. I mean compare stats all you want, but the MAIN difference between Murton and Dubois is that, Murton is a student of the game. Murton is also considered a "gamer" and that he will do what it takes to win a game for the Cubs. Walk? Done. XTra base hit? Done. Bunt?Done. Dubois is simply a MASHER, that's it. I don't need stats to tell me what my eyes already do.

 

Murton: complete hitter. Reminds me of Paul O'neill (and that is not a bad thing.)

 

Dubois: Power masher. Reminds me of Rob Deer/Jay Buhner. Not saying that is a bad thing, just saying not what the Cubs need.

 

And just because the Cubs "MAY" pick up an OF before the deadline, doesn't mean Murton won't be part of the Cubs in 06.

[10man]

Oh, also keep in mind the fact that Murton has won HR contests in the past, and also is said to keep pace with Sing/Pie in batting practice longball....so it's not like he's a weakling. He may just swing for base hits, because *gasp*, sometimes those are just as effective, and much easier to obtain.

These two other guys I know also set aside their power in order to get on base: Wade Boggs and Ichiro Suzuki.

[sporrer17]

Oh, also keep in mind the fact that Murton has won HR contests in the past, and also is said to keep pace with Sing/Pie in batting practice longball....so it's not like he's a weakling. He may just swing for base hits, because *gasp*, sometimes those are just as effective, and much easier to obtain.

These two other guys I know also set aside their power in order to get on base: Wade Boggs and Ichiro Suzuki.

 

Imagine that, players who have the ability to hit for power, but want to be better all-around players, so they cut down on their swing in order to do what they can to get on base...

[badger1679666666]

Oh, also keep in mind the fact that Murton has won HR contests in the past, and also is said to keep pace with Sing/Pie in batting practice longball....so it's not like he's a weakling. He may just swing for base hits, because *gasp*, sometimes those are just as effective, and much easier to obtain.

These two other guys I know also set aside their power in order to get on base: Wade Boggs and Ichiro Suzuki.

 

Imagine that, players who have the ability to hit for power, but want to be better all-around players, so they cut down on their swing in order to do what they can to get on base...

 

I have an ugly feeling where this comment could go, starting with C and ending with Y.

[dalgreen]

People have to understand it is ok to put young players in the best situation.

 

I disagree. When a player is young like Murton and is developing, it is best that he gets to play everyday and to develop and mature as a player. You don't learn much sitting on the bench. He will have to hit righties some day, he needs to play now.

 

You probably need to read the story from yesterday's game. According to Murton, it sounds as if he's learning a lot in games when he sits.

[badger1679666666]

People have to understand it is ok to put young players in the best situation.

 

I disagree. When a player is young like Murton and is developing, it is best that he gets to play everyday and to develop and mature as a player. You don't learn much sitting on the bench. He will have to hit righties some day, he needs to play now.

 

You probably need to read the story from yesterday's game. According to Murton, it sounds as if he's learning a lot in games when he sits.

 

Well what's he going to say? I need to play against Righty's but Dustbin won't let me? Of course he's gonna say he's learning alot. He's a rookie with no pull. Just like a little lemming in an office that never contradicts the boss.

 

Also, I really don't see Francouer and the rest of the bunch sitting in Atlanta and watching. They play, and they play alot. further, it's not like Holly's tearing it up in the least bit.

[ZZ Thorn]

People have to understand it is ok to put young players in the best situation.

 

I disagree. When a player is young like Murton and is developing, it is best that he gets to play everyday and to develop and mature as a player. You don't learn much sitting on the bench. He will have to hit righties some day, he needs to play now.

 

You probably need to read the story from yesterday's game. According to Murton, it sounds as if he's learning a lot in games when he sits.

 

That's why I don't want to see Cedeno sent back down, I'd rather see him sit on the bench. You learn a lot by being in the dugout. And I bet he would too - who wouldn't rather ride the pine in the bigs instead of playing in Tuscaloosa?

 

Cedeno's mashed at AAA, he's not going to get truly rusty cuz Dusty plays everybody.

[dalgreen]

People have to understand it is ok to put young players in the best situation.

 

I disagree. When a player is young like Murton and is developing, it is best that he gets to play everyday and to develop and mature as a player. You don't learn much sitting on the bench. He will have to hit righties some day, he needs to play now.

 

You probably need to read the story from yesterday's game. According to Murton, it sounds as if he's learning a lot in games when he sits.

 

Well what's he going to say? I need to play against Righty's but Dustbin won't let me? Of course he's gonna say he's learning alot. He's a rookie with no pull. Just like a little lemming in an office that never contradicts the boss.

 

Also, I really don't see Francouer and the rest of the bunch sitting in Atlanta and watching. They play, and they play alot. further, it's not like Holly's tearing it up in the least bit.

 

I love when fans can only retort, "what's he going to say" when what is quoted doesn't coincide with their argument. Yeah, there's no way Murton learns anything while on the bench even though cameras have shown him talking with players. Yeah, the kids in Atlanta are playing, but so is a dinosaur like Franco. I wonder if you'd even know their names if we hadn't played the Braves? I wonder if you were the manager and they went 1-30 would you had stayed with them or benched them? See, our decisions never get seen so we don't get to critique your ideas. I don't like Hollandsworth and it ticks me off that he's still striking out on pitches he struck out on eight and nine years ago. But I'm done griping about Hollandsworth because I did it ever since he was promised more playing time by Hendry and Baker. I also recognize that Murton's success so far has been because he's hitting only against lefties. His five strikeouts in 10 at-bats against righties leads me to believe that he should slowly get worked in against righties. I don't want to see him against Schmidt, Clemens, Oswalt, Carpenter, etc.

[badger1679666666]

People have to understand it is ok to put young players in the best situation.

 

I disagree. When a player is young like Murton and is developing, it is best that he gets to play everyday and to develop and mature as a player. You don't learn much sitting on the bench. He will have to hit righties some day, he needs to play now.

 

You probably need to read the story from yesterday's game. According to Murton, it sounds as if he's learning a lot in games when he sits.

 

Well what's he going to say? I need to play against Righty's but Dustbin won't let me? Of course he's gonna say he's learning alot. He's a rookie with no pull. Just like a little lemming in an office that never contradicts the boss.

 

Also, I really don't see Francouer and the rest of the bunch sitting in Atlanta and watching. They play, and they play alot. further, it's not like Holly's tearing it up in the least bit.

 

I love when fans can only retort, "what's he going to say" when what is quoted doesn't coincide with their argument. Yeah, there's no way Murton learns anything while on the bench even though cameras have shown him talking with players. Yeah, the kids in Atlanta are playing, but so is a dinosaur like Franco. I wonder if you'd even know their names if we hadn't played the Braves? I wonder if you were the manager and they went 1-30 would you had stayed with them or benched them? See, our decisions never get seen so we don't get to critique your ideas. I don't like Hollandsworth and it ticks me off that he's still striking out on pitches he struck out on eight and nine years ago. But I'm done griping about Hollandsworth because I did it ever since he was promised more playing time by Hendry and Baker. I also recognize that Murton's success so far has been because he's hitting only against lefties. His five strikeouts in 10 at-bats against righties leads me to believe that he should slowly get worked in against righties. I don't want to see him against Schmidt, Clemens, Oswalt, Carpenter, etc.

 

I love when fans can't acknowledge the majority of "quotes" to the media are vanilla coated crap that don't mean anything. Questions are asked and the same trite responses are given time and again.

 

I most assuredly would have known about the Braves youth, since they are fluffed nightly on Baseball Tonight, and i'm a baseball addict. But if you respond, please tell me what the hell that has to do with anything, other than trying a personal dig against me (a person you know NOTHING about).

 

I also love how fans just make crap up about what they think other fans are advocating in order to make themselves look better. I never once said I wanted murton playing against Clemens or Carpenter, or Oswalt or any stud right hand pitchers. But last time I checked, Tomko wasn't Clemens, Carpenter or Oswalt. OR was he Dalgreen?

 

I said he needed to play more, unless we are against an Ace, or #2 pitcher, I want Murton playing against EVERYONE. He can still talk to people in the dugout while they are batting.

 

:roll:

[dalgreen]

I love when fans can't acknowledge the majority of "quotes" to the media are vanilla coated crap that don't mean anything. Questions are asked and the same trite responses are given time and again.

 

I most assuredly would have known about the Braves youth, since they are fluffed nightly on Baseball Tonight, and i'm a baseball addict. But if you respond, please tell me what the hell that has to do with anything, other than trying a personal dig against me (a person you know NOTHING about).

 

I also love how fans just make crap up about what they think other fans are advocating in order to make themselves look better. I never once said I wanted murton playing against Clemens or Carpenter, or Oswalt or any stud right hand pitchers. But last time I checked, Tomko wasn't Clemens, Carpenter or Oswalt. OR was he Dalgreen?

 

I said he needed to play more, unless we are against an Ace, or #2 pitcher, I want Murton playing against EVERYONE. He can still talk to people in the dugout while they are batting.

 

:roll:

 

I don't know how you took my post as a personal dig. If so, I apologize. But when you said, "What's Murton going to say?", that in effect means you think he's not telling the truth when he says he says he gets to analyze the game and gets analysis from vets. Do you or do you not believe him when he says that? I also know quotes are vanilla-coated, that's why it baffles me when people get so upset at Baker's ridiculous quotes. Okay, you know about the Braves system, but would you have stayed with Johnson when he went 1-30 or would you have gone another route? I'm just saying it's easy for us on here to second guess because our decisions never get played out. I still don't know how much more Murton would play in your scenario (not against a #1 or #2 starter) than what he gets now. He'll start at least two games in the AZ series since they'll be tossing lefties. I just believe Murton was telling the truth about learning some things when he sits the bench. If you think he was lying or just being polite, so be it. I just don't know why you would totally discount what he said, though.

[Brian]

Maybe he is learning sitting on the bench BUT as a fan of the CUBS first and foremost the fact that he is playing so much better than Hollandsworth I'd like to see the hot hand playing. At this point we can't settler for Holly's common 0-fer or maybe if we are lucky 1 hit. Holly started playing more again because he was "hot", I really don't think he can get much colder.

[dalgreen]

Maybe he is learning sitting on the bench BUT as a fan of the CUBS first and foremost the fact that he is playing so much better than Hollandsworth I'd like to see the hot hand playing. At this point we can't settler for Holly's common 0-fer or maybe if we are lucky 1 hit. Holly started playing more again because he was "hot", I really don't think he can get much colder.

 

Is Murton hot because he's facing lefties or would he be hot no matter who he bats against? Before answering, he's struck out five times in 10 at-bats against righties.