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JC

By JC,
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Transmogrified Tiger All-Star

Transmogrified Tiger

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Tim Hudson at age 23 dominated A ball and performed decently at AA. Dan Meyer at age 23 dominated AA ball and performed decently at AAA. Juan Cruz is also dominating AAA as a starter. Hudson would help them right now no doubt, but they didn't wind up empty handed.

 

you gotta be kidding me. I know you some of you have an allegiance to billy beane, but this is a ridiculous series of implied conclusions.

 

- Tim Hudson's career ERA+ is 138. He is an established pitcher who supplies a lot of quality innings at the top of a big-league rotation.

 

- Juan Cruz is "dominating" AAA? HE'S TWENTY-SEVEN YEARS OLD! His ERA in oakland this year? 8.49

 

- Dan Meyer is either injured or just not a good pitcher:

55 IP, 67 H, 27 BB, 12 HR to date

 

I don't see how you can suggest Beane didn't get the worst of this deal. They'd give Cruz and Meyer back for Hudson in a heartbeat...but at this point I don't think they'd get anything more than a AAA reliever for either of these guys.

 

I never said that Beane didn't get the worst of this deal. You're the one who said they "gave him away". Cruz has always been at least league average as a starter, and is doing very well in a hitters league. Meyer is struggling at AAA, but he's still a good prospect with a great track record. It's apparent that Beane got the worst end of this deal, but since he wasn't planning on keeping Hudson, Cruz and Meyer are closer to contributing, likely will have higher ceilings, and have a better performance background than the draft picks they would have received.

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ZZ Thorn Draft Eligible

ZZ Thorn

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
Tim Hudson at age 23 dominated A ball and performed decently at AA. Dan Meyer at age 23 dominated AA ball and performed decently at AAA. Juan Cruz is also dominating AAA as a starter. Hudson would help them right now no doubt, but they didn't wind up empty handed.

 

- Juan Cruz is "dominating" AAA? HE'S TWENTY-SEVEN YEARS OLD! His ERA in oakland this year? 8.49

 

Cruz is 26 actually, 27 in October, but he does in fact totally suck. That ERA is in 20+ games too, so it's continual total sucking. He's also incredibly ugly. FYI, Hee Seop Choi sucks too.

Transmogrified Tiger All-Star

Transmogrified Tiger

Community Moderator
Posted
Posted
Tim Hudson at age 23 dominated A ball and performed decently at AA. Dan Meyer at age 23 dominated AA ball and performed decently at AAA. Juan Cruz is also dominating AAA as a starter. Hudson would help them right now no doubt, but they didn't wind up empty handed.

 

- Juan Cruz is "dominating" AAA? HE'S TWENTY-SEVEN YEARS OLD! His ERA in oakland this year? 8.49

 

Cruz is 26 actually, 27 in October, but he does in fact totally suck. That ERA is in 20+ games too, so it's continual total sucking. He's also incredibly ugly. FYI, Hee Seop Choi sucks too.

 

Do you have a couple hours to kill, or do you just love arguing that much?

ZZ Thorn Draft Eligible

ZZ Thorn

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
Tim Hudson at age 23 dominated A ball and performed decently at AA. Dan Meyer at age 23 dominated AA ball and performed decently at AAA. Juan Cruz is also dominating AAA as a starter. Hudson would help them right now no doubt, but they didn't wind up empty handed.

 

- Juan Cruz is "dominating" AAA? HE'S TWENTY-SEVEN YEARS OLD! His ERA in oakland this year? 8.49

 

Cruz is 26 actually, 27 in October, but he does in fact totally suck. That ERA is in 20+ games too, so it's continual total sucking. He's also incredibly ugly. FYI, Hee Seop Choi sucks too.

 

Do you have a couple hours to kill, or do you just love arguing that much?

 

I was reviewing their stats... just getting up to speed on them. Unfortunately I saw Cruz's picture.

 

I don't see what there is to argue about with that mug.

treebird All-Star

treebird

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Tim Hudson at age 23 dominated A ball and performed decently at AA. Dan Meyer at age 23 dominated AA ball and performed decently at AAA. Juan Cruz is also dominating AAA as a starter. Hudson would help them right now no doubt, but they didn't wind up empty handed.

 

you gotta be kidding me. I know you some of you have an allegiance to billy beane, but this is a ridiculous series of implied conclusions.

 

- Tim Hudson's career ERA+ is 138. He is an established pitcher who supplies a lot of quality innings at the top of a big-league rotation.

 

- Juan Cruz is "dominating" AAA? HE'S TWENTY-SEVEN YEARS OLD! His ERA in oakland this year? 8.49

 

- Dan Meyer is either injured or just not a good pitcher:

55 IP, 67 H, 27 BB, 12 HR to date

 

I don't see how you can suggest Beane didn't get the worst of this deal. They'd give Cruz and Meyer back for Hudson in a heartbeat...but at this point I don't think they'd get anything more than a AAA reliever for either of these guys.

 

$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

if you're only spending 55 million, you can't keep everyone. it'd be awesome if they could've kept everyone who's come up through their system that they wanted to, but this is not the reality the a's deal with.

RynoRules Knoxville Smokies

RynoRules

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
Tim Hudson at age 23 dominated A ball and performed decently at AA. Dan Meyer at age 23 dominated AA ball and performed decently at AAA. Juan Cruz is also dominating AAA as a starter. Hudson would help them right now no doubt, but they didn't wind up empty handed.

 

you gotta be kidding me. I know you some of you have an allegiance to billy beane, but this is a ridiculous series of implied conclusions.

 

- Tim Hudson's career ERA+ is 138. He is an established pitcher who supplies a lot of quality innings at the top of a big-league rotation.

 

- Juan Cruz is "dominating" AAA? HE'S TWENTY-SEVEN YEARS OLD! His ERA in oakland this year? 8.49

 

- Dan Meyer is either injured or just not a good pitcher:

55 IP, 67 H, 27 BB, 12 HR to date

 

I don't see how you can suggest Beane didn't get the worst of this deal. They'd give Cruz and Meyer back for Hudson in a heartbeat...but at this point I don't think they'd get anything more than a AAA reliever for either of these guys.

 

$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

if you're only spending 55 million, you can't keep everyone. it'd be awesome if they could've kept everyone who's come up through their system that they wanted to, but this is not the reality the a's deal with.

 

Agreed, but lets call a spade a spade - the Hudson deal was underwhelming in terms of what Beane got back.

treebird All-Star

treebird

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Tim Hudson at age 23 dominated A ball and performed decently at AA. Dan Meyer at age 23 dominated AA ball and performed decently at AAA. Juan Cruz is also dominating AAA as a starter. Hudson would help them right now no doubt, but they didn't wind up empty handed.

 

you gotta be kidding me. I know you some of you have an allegiance to billy beane, but this is a ridiculous series of implied conclusions.

 

- Tim Hudson's career ERA+ is 138. He is an established pitcher who supplies a lot of quality innings at the top of a big-league rotation.

 

- Juan Cruz is "dominating" AAA? HE'S TWENTY-SEVEN YEARS OLD! His ERA in oakland this year? 8.49

 

- Dan Meyer is either injured or just not a good pitcher:

55 IP, 67 H, 27 BB, 12 HR to date

 

I don't see how you can suggest Beane didn't get the worst of this deal. They'd give Cruz and Meyer back for Hudson in a heartbeat...but at this point I don't think they'd get anything more than a AAA reliever for either of these guys.

 

$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

if you're only spending 55 million, you can't keep everyone. it'd be awesome if they could've kept everyone who's come up through their system that they wanted to, but this is not the reality the a's deal with.

 

Agreed, but lets call a spade a spade - the Hudson deal was underwhelming in terms of what Beane got back.

 

only if you insist on evaluating the deal right now before dan meyer even pitches for the a's

SouthSideRyan MVP

SouthSideRyan

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Tim Hudson at age 23 dominated A ball and performed decently at AA. Dan Meyer at age 23 dominated AA ball and performed decently at AAA. Juan Cruz is also dominating AAA as a starter. Hudson would help them right now no doubt, but they didn't wind up empty handed.

 

you gotta be kidding me. I know you some of you have an allegiance to billy beane, but this is a ridiculous series of implied conclusions.

 

- Tim Hudson's career ERA+ is 138. He is an established pitcher who supplies a lot of quality innings at the top of a big-league rotation.

 

- Juan Cruz is "dominating" AAA? HE'S TWENTY-SEVEN YEARS OLD! His ERA in oakland this year? 8.49

 

- Dan Meyer is either injured or just not a good pitcher:

55 IP, 67 H, 27 BB, 12 HR to date

 

I don't see how you can suggest Beane didn't get the worst of this deal. They'd give Cruz and Meyer back for Hudson in a heartbeat...but at this point I don't think they'd get anything more than a AAA reliever for either of these guys.

 

$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

if you're only spending 55 million, you can't keep everyone. it'd be awesome if they could've kept everyone who's come up through their system that they wanted to, but this is not the reality the a's deal with.

 

Agreed, but lets call a spade a spade - the Hudson deal was underwhelming in terms of what Beane got back.

 

only if you insist on evaluating the deal right now before dan meyer even pitches for the a's

 

Why not evaluate now on what Meyer is projected to do based on his AAA numbers?

treebird All-Star

treebird

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Why not evaluate now on what Meyer is projected to do based on his AAA numbers?

 

if you want to evaluate a minor league pitcher based only on 60ip in a year in which he was hurt, feel free

 

edited to add: i forgot to say that meyer's velocity is back into the low to mid 90's rather than the mid to high 80's where it was earlier this year. i dont know how much you follow oakland a's prospects, so this isn't necessarily a fair fight. dan meyer will probably be pretty good, and could very well be in the a's rotation out of spring training next year.

Mark_R South Bend Cubs

Mark_R

Verified Member
Posted
Posted
Beane is a very good general manager, but he was one-uped by a better one in the Hudson trade.

 

Meanwhile, he pulled a fast one on Jocketty.

SouthSideRyan MVP

SouthSideRyan

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
I assumed Meyer wasn't injured as you didn't say he was when dime suggested he may be injured. Regardless I'd be leary of Braves pitching prospects, and it really seems that Beane didn't get enough when the Brewers were able to pick up Capellan for Kolb, and the A's only got Cruz and Charles Thomas in addition to a similarly ranked prospect in Meyer.
don_kessinger_was_good First Round Pick

don_kessinger_was_good

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

I really wanted Justin Duscherer in the offseason, I think we could have snagged him if we really wanted him. He'd look awfully good as our setup man right about now. :-(

 

I don't fault Beane at all for moving Mulder, but I will admit, Hudson I wouldn't have done (were I Beane).

Lefty First Round Pick

Lefty

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

 

I don't see how you can suggest Beane didn't get the worst of this deal. They'd give Cruz and Meyer back for Hudson in a heartbeat...but at this point I don't think they'd get anything more than a AAA reliever for either of these guys.

 

But they would lose Hudson after this year anyway. And Hudson hasn't been so great this year, and the Braves committed another 4 years and $50 million to him. Whose spot would you rather occupy? I think the A's accomplished what they wanted except that Cruz and Meyer have been of no help yet.

dime Prep Ball

dime

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

whether or not the a's needed to deal hudson is one issue.

 

whether or not they needed to deal him for a journeyman and a B-grade pitching prospect is another. I wonder if schuerholtz used anything he read about in "moneyball" to snooker beane? it should be pretty obvious that beane valued cruz a lot more than schuerholtz did...and valued hudson much less. why?

KatJ ACL Cubs

KatJ

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Maybe if Billy Beane would stop writing books about himself, his team would've been good starting from opening day.

 

God, not another one. BILLY BEANE DID NOT WRITE "MONEYBALL". Michael Lewis essentially did a case study on the Oakland A's - why they kept winning with a smaller payroll. If you read the book, Lewis does admit that as he was doing research, he started focusing on Beane's background on his own. Call it a story within a story - it was a good piece of journalistic writing, that happened to become a book.

 

EDIT: Oh, yes, the slam on Morgan. I think that's another reason why I liked the book: Lewis cited at least two occasions that demonstrated that Joe Morgan is an idiot.

Mark Priors Calves Myrtle Beach Pelicans

Mark Priors Calves

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted
Maybe if Billy Beane would stop writing books about himself, his team would've been good starting from opening day.

 

God, not another one. BILLY BEANE DID NOT WRITE "MONEYBALL". Michael Lewis essentially did a case study on the Oakland A's - why they kept winning with a smaller payroll. If you read the book, Lewis does admit that as he was doing research, he started focusing on Beane's background on his own. Call it a story within a story - it was a good piece of journalistic writing, that happened to become a book.

 

EDIT: Oh, yes, the slam on Morgan. I think that's another reason why I liked the book: Lewis cited at least two occasions that demonstrated that Joe Morgan is an idiot.

 

I was being facetious.

sonicdethmonkey0 College Ball

sonicdethmonkey0

Verified Member
Posted
Posted

oakland has really had a remarkable run. i love the way that team is run, and i love young teams that have success. it's so much more fun rooting for the kids, it seems

 

also, i would just like to say that i think this thread is really awesome, in more than one way

treebird All-Star

treebird

Old-Timey Member
Posted
Posted

a's lose tonight though : (

 

a double juuuuuuuuust over swishers head and a poor relay throw from ellis allowed a run to score in the bottom of the ninth to give the twins the win, 4-3.

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