I have faith in Hendry. Do you?

[JC]

I suppose someone should ask, what exactly should we have "faith" in with respect to Hendry?

 

Faith that the Gerut/Dubois trade was a good one?

Faith that he will make another trade?

Faith that if he makes another trade, it will be a good one?

Faith that this team will make it to the playoffs as constructed?

Faith that he will make a move to propel this team to the playoffs?

Faith that he will make a move to propel this team to be WS champions?

 

The responses that have been provided, including my first one, have been varied as the question is somewhat vague.

[goonys evil twin]

Other than possibly Wood, all of the injuries this year have been new and unpredictable. And his payroll is already at $100 with Sosa, so there isn't much of any wiggle room available.

 

You can call Nomar's injury new, but to call it unpredictable is intellectually dishonest. Nobody could have thought Nomar would play all year. There was a pretty good chance he'd get hurt, and a decent chance he'd be out a long time.

 

Plus, the fact that injuries happen every year to every team makes it imperative that you plan for them.

 

I count the payroll against him. It's not difficult to build contenders with top payrolls. If this team was anything less than an 88 and 89 win team the last two years, it would have been terribly unacceptable.

[badger1679666666]

AAAA Dubois

 

yes, you can totally know this after a whopping 150 big league plate appearances

 

:roll:

 

Well people already know that Gerut is gonna be a worse ML player than Dubois by the end of their career so why can't I know the opposite? Because it's different than how you feel?

[TheDude]

I view GMs as generally have a 50/50 ratio when considering hits and misses with trades and free agent signings. Just the nature of the business.

 

Fortunately for Hendry, his hits have far outweighed his misses. I'll accept the loss Cruz, the bad contract of Alfonseca, etc. by knowing the Cubs have 2 all-star studs sitting in the 3 and 4 in the lineup.

 

In other words, Hendry's worst five moves during his tenure can't possibly compare to his best five moves in terms of absolute value.

[ltb]

AAAA Dubois

 

yes, you can totally know this after a whopping 150 big league plate appearances

 

:roll:

 

Well people already know that Gerut is gonna be a worse ML player than Dubois by the end of their career so why can't I know the opposite? Because it's different than how you feel?

 

I am not judging this deal, until I see more. It's the only mature and responsible way to judge a trade

 

it's okay, dude - being a hypocrite is all right with me!

[badger1679666666]

AAAA Dubois

 

yes, you can totally know this after a whopping 150 big league plate appearances

 

:roll:

 

Well people already know that Gerut is gonna be a worse ML player than Dubois by the end of their career so why can't I know the opposite? Because it's different than how you feel?

 

I am not judging this deal, until I see more. It's the only mature and responsible way to judge a trade

 

it's okay, dude - being a hypocrite is all right with me!

 

I'm not judging the deal, I never did in my post. Learn what hypocracy means before you use it.

 

I believe Dubois is AAAA player based on what I've seen. I have no idea what Gerut will be.

 

What you quoted was me playing devils advocate. I have no idea whether gerut will be worse or better than Dubois.

[SouthSideRyan]

Other than possibly Wood, all of the injuries this year have been new and unpredictable. And his payroll is already at $100 with Sosa, so there isn't much of any wiggle room available.

 

You can call Nomar's injury new, but to call it unpredictable is intellectually dishonest. Nobody could have thought Nomar would play all year. There was a pretty good chance he'd get hurt, and a decent chance he'd be out a long time.

 

 

Based on what?

[goonys evil twin]

Other than possibly Wood, all of the injuries this year have been new and unpredictable. And his payroll is already at $100 with Sosa, so there isn't much of any wiggle room available.

 

You can call Nomar's injury new, but to call it unpredictable is intellectually dishonest. Nobody could have thought Nomar would play all year. There was a pretty good chance he'd get hurt, and a decent chance he'd be out a long time.

 

 

Based on what?

 

The greatest predictor of future injury is past injury. Nomar has been a wreck for the past 4-5 years. Anybody who felt confident that he would make it through 2005 unscathed was either Nomar himself, or somebody who made a conscious effort to ignore his past.

[Sarcastic]

AAAA Dubois

 

yes, you can totally know this after a whopping 150 big league plate appearances

 

:roll:

 

Well people already know that Gerut is gonna be a worse ML player than Dubois by the end of their career so why can't I know the opposite? Because it's different than how you feel?

 

I am not judging this deal, until I see more. It's the only mature and responsible way to judge a trade

 

it's okay, dude - being a hypocrite is all right with me!

 

I don't think name calling is necessary.

 

That said, I tend to agree with the wait and see policy on Dubios for Gerut. Maybe Gerut will turn it around, maybe not. Maybe Dubios will figure out ML pitching, maybe he won't. Let's all take a deep breath and remind oursleves that this trade will not single-handedly take down the franchise, no matter how it turns out.

 

As for Hendry, I don't know. He has definitely made mistakes, but overall I trust most of the moves he makes. I think it is fair to say that when he makes a major trade, he often comes out of it on top. I don't know if he can take this team to the WS, but if they don't make the playoffs this year, I don't think it will be because Hendry did a bad job.

[ltb]

AAAA Dubois

 

yes, you can totally know this after a whopping 150 big league plate appearances

 

:roll:

 

Well people already know that Gerut is gonna be a worse ML player than Dubois by the end of their career so why can't I know the opposite? Because it's different than how you feel?

 

I am not judging this deal, until I see more. It's the only mature and responsible way to judge a trade

 

it's okay, dude - being a hypocrite is all right with me!

 

I'm not judging the deal, I never did in my post. Learn what hypocracy means before you use it.

 

I believe Dubois is AAAA player based on what I've seen. I have no idea what Gerut will be.

 

What you quoted was me playing devils advocate. I have no idea whether gerut will be worse or better than Dubois.

 

well, i certainly don't know what "hypocracy" is, but i do know what "hypocrisy" is.

 

you are judging the trade, or it certainly appears so, by 1. calling dubois an AAAA player (when he hasn't even had over 200 PAs in the bigs, i believe it was 152 this year) and 2. attacking those who believe the deal isn't a good move

 

while i agree that no strong opinions should be made about the deal until we see how each player does on their new team, my first impression is that this is a lateral move at best, and i don't see what the problem is with having an opinion at first.

[Chocolate Milk]

AAAA Dubois

 

yes, you can totally know this after a whopping 150 big league plate appearances

 

:roll:

 

Well people already know that Gerut is gonna be a worse ML player than Dubois by the end of their career so why can't I know the opposite? Because it's different than how you feel?

 

I am not judging this deal, until I see more. It's the only mature and responsible way to judge a trade

 

it's okay, dude - being a hypocrite is all right with me!

 

I'm not judging the deal, I never did in my post. Learn what hypocracy means before you use it.

 

I believe Dubois is AAAA player based on what I've seen. I have no idea what Gerut will be.

 

What you quoted was me playing devils advocate. I have no idea whether gerut will be worse or better than Dubois.

 

well, i certainly don't know what "hypocracy" is, but i do know what "hypocrisy" is.

 

you are judging the trade, or it certainly appears so, by 1. calling dubois an AAAA player (when he hasn't even had over 200 PAs in the bigs, i believe it was 152 this year) and 2. attacking those who believe the deal isn't a good move

 

while i agree that no strong opinions should be made about the deal until we see how each player does on their new team, my first impression is that this is a lateral move at best, and i don't see what the problem is with having an opinion at first.

 

Do we have to rehash the 30+ page thread again in this one?

[ltb]

Do we have to rehash the 30+ page thread again in this one?

 

wasn't planning on it - i just needed his post from that thread to make my point, and it's obvious that this thread was made because of last night's trade.

 

either way, i'm done with this thread.

[CubinNY]

Faith no.

 

Hope yes.

 

At best he has a mixed track record so I sit and hope.

[Backtobanks]

I think Hendry has made some solid trade deadline moves, and some good offseason moves as well. But this Dubois trade makes me kind of sad. He was one of my favorite players, even though he was struggling. We didn't get anyone that's going to have a real solid impact on the big league club this year (just my opinion).

 

I wish Jason the best of luck, and hope he turns out to be a great major leaguer. I might have to buy an Indians jersey now (never thought those words would come out of me... ever).

 

I think Gerut might just be filler for another trade Hendry is working on. He said he won't get anyone unless they can help next year as well as this year, and I don't think platooning Holly and Gerut is the answer to our LF problems at all. Murton has been alright, but he can be upgraded for the rest of this season IMO. I believe a bigger move is on the horizon. How big? Well, that depends on how close we are to being in playoff contention.

 

I liked Dubois too, but he needs regular at-bats and he wasn't going to get them with the Cubs. Dubois is 26 and has fallen behind Patterson, Pie, Murton, Burnitz, Hollandsworth, etc. I think future is as a DH, unless he can get some regular playing time in a place with a bandbox park.

[badger1679666666]

either way, i'm done with this thread.

 

Thank you.

 

I wasn't discussing the trade itself, I was discussing hendry. You picked one small part of my post out and decided to focus on it. And I don't want to talk about the trade, I want to talk about Jim Hendry: The complete Works.

 

Obviously the trade last nite influenced this thread, but I'm more interested in peoples faith or lack thereof in Hendry, rather than the trade.

[SouthSideRyan]

Other than possibly Wood, all of the injuries this year have been new and unpredictable. And his payroll is already at $100 with Sosa, so there isn't much of any wiggle room available.

 

You can call Nomar's injury new, but to call it unpredictable is intellectually dishonest. Nobody could have thought Nomar would play all year. There was a pretty good chance he'd get hurt, and a decent chance he'd be out a long time.

 

 

Based on what?

 

The greatest predictor of future injury is past injury. Nomar has been a wreck for the past 4-5 years. Anybody who felt confident that he would make it through 2005 unscathed was either Nomar himself, or somebody who made a conscious effort to ignore his past.

 

A wreck? He had his injuries last year and was hit by a pitch in '01.

[goonys evil twin]

A wreck? He had his injuries last year and was hit by a pitch in '01.

 

Okay, maybe I'm wrong. I was probably the only one who thought he had a good chance of missing a lot of playing time in 2005. Crazy me.

[SouthSideRyan]

A wreck? He had his injuries last year and was hit by a pitch in '01.

 

Okay, maybe I'm wrong. I was probably the only one who thought he had a good chance of missing a lot of playing time in 2005. Crazy me.

 

Damn, you're fast on the replies.

 

You're right, you're far from the only one who thought he was gonna miss time this year, I just still can't figure out why. At the time of the season starting there wasn't really any overwhelming evidence IMO that he'd get injured. You turned out right after the fact and everyone seems to have jumped on the "shoulda seen this coming" bandwagon, but I really don't see why we should've seen this coming. Should we stay away from anyone coming off of a half season from now on because they're injury prone?

[goonys evil twin]

A wreck? He had his injuries last year and was hit by a pitch in '01.

 

Okay, maybe I'm wrong. I was probably the only one who thought he had a good chance of missing a lot of playing time in 2005. Crazy me.

 

Damn, you're fast on the replies.

 

You're right, you're far from the only one who thought he was gonna miss time this year, I just still can't figure out why. At the time of the season starting there wasn't really any overwhelming evidence IMO that he'd get injured. You turned out right after the fact and everyone seems to have jumped on the "shoulda seen this coming" bandwagon, but I really don't see why we should've seen this coming. Should we stay away from anyone coming off of a half season from now on because they're injury prone?

 

Nomar has been beat up for nearly 5 years. He's played through a lot of stuff, and his game has suffered tremendously. It's more than just half of last year. Don't you remember he was supposedly healed, and then got injured again after the trade, a totally "new" injury. He's had wrist, ankle, achilles, knee, groin and other ailments. There's a reason nobody signed him longterm when every two-bit SS was getting looks at 4/$32 million offers. There's a reason his one year make good deal was layered with incentives.

[Cubzfan64]

A wreck? He had his injuries last year and was hit by a pitch in '01.

 

Okay, maybe I'm wrong. I was probably the only one who thought he had a good chance of missing a lot of playing time in 2005. Crazy me.

 

Damn, you're fast on the replies.

 

You're right, you're far from the only one who thought he was gonna miss time this year, I just still can't figure out why. At the time of the season starting there wasn't really any overwhelming evidence IMO that he'd get injured. You turned out right after the fact and everyone seems to have jumped on the "shoulda seen this coming" bandwagon, but I really don't see why we should've seen this coming. Should we stay away from anyone coming off of a half season from now on because they're injury prone?

 

I've had a problem with people jumping all over Nomar as being this "glass" SS as well.

 

1997 - 153 games

1998 - 143 games

1999 - 135 games

2000 - 140 games

2001 - hit by a pitch (not something he had much control over)

2002 - 156 games

2003 - 156 games

2004 & 2005 - well, we know the story of both those seasons so far.

 

I personally don't think there was any real evidence that starting this season Nomar had a "good chance" of getting hurt and being out for a long time. If you honestly had that feeling, it had to be just a gut feeling for some reason because the evidence simply isn't there for that assumption.

[imb]

Faith no.

 

Hope yes.

 

 

This goes for me also.

[SouthSideRyan]

Nomar played 81 games last year. He missed half the season.

 

He put up OPS+ of 132 and 121 the 2 years before last in 156 games both years. Nobody's expecting him to put up a 372 AVG again, but he must be one hell of a gamer if he managed to put up those #s in '02 and '03 all while only taking 6 games off due to those nagging problems.

[Wendy City]

Gooney is the only person I know who can so clearly be proven wrong and still go on fighting. Call it what you will, but it's always fun to watch. Keep fighting Goon, don't let the facts get in your way.

[badger1679666666]

I've had a problem with people jumping all over Nomar as being this "glass" SS as well.

 

1997 - 153 games

1998 - 143 games

1999 - 135 games

2000 - 140 games

2001 - hit by a pitch (not something he had much control over)

2002 - 156 games

2003 - 156 games

2004 & 2005 - well, we know the story of both those seasons so far.

 

 

Good Solid eveidence there! (No sarcasm) I didn't think he would be hurt either. I often don't know where some players "injury proness" comes from. Prior is another one of those.

Edited July 19, 2005 by badger

[goonys evil twin]

Gooney is the only person I know who can so clearly be proven wrong and still go on fighting. Call it what you will, but it's always fun to watch. Keep fighting Goon, don't let the facts get in your way.

 

Okay tough guy.

 

Like I said, I must have been the only person who thought Nomar was an injury risk.

 

Crazy gut instincts.