Do you still want Dunn?

[goonys evil twin]

There are plenty of .239 hitters who can draw walks that we could get for much cheaper than Adam Dunn.

How many of them are 25 or younger with a .900 career OPS?

 

There has got to be dozens, if not hundreds.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

There are plenty of .239 hitters who can draw walks that we could get for much cheaper than Adam Dunn.

How many of them are 25 or younger with a .900 career OPS?

 

There has got to be dozens, if not hundreds.

 

:| It just doesn't do it for me.

[AAApittsburgh]

Is it just me, or is Dunn a power hitter? I always thought a power hitters job wasn't to draw walks, it was to drive in runs. A guy hitting .239 with almost no sac flies isn't the answer. I like Pierre, and I like Aubrey Huff (although he's been struggling this year, he's starting to turn it around)

Isn't a power hitters job to be patient also? If Dunn has two strikes on him, and doesn't get his pitch, he won't swing. This lineup is still in serious need of OBP, and Huff and Pierre can't hold Dunn's jock. Wasn't there a post in another Dunn thread that he's something like 9 for 18 in situations that would call for a sac fly?

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Is it just me, or is Dunn a power hitter? I always thought a power hitters job wasn't to draw walks, it was to drive in runs. A guy hitting .239 with almost no sac flies isn't the answer. I like Pierre, and I like Aubrey Huff (although he's been struggling this year, he's starting to turn it around)

Isn't a power hitters job to be patient also? If Dunn has two strikes on him, and doesn't get his pitch, he won't swing. This lineup is still in serious need of OBP, and Huff and Pierre can't hold Dunn's jock. Wasn't there a post in another Dunn thread that he's something like 9 for 18 in situations that would call for a sac fly?

 

I think it was along the lines of Dunn has 9 HR in a situation where he could have had a sac fly.

[nick23]

He's 25. He has a career OPS of .900. What else do you want? He is one of the elite offensive performers in the game. BA is not important.

 

That might be a slight overstatement. OBP is much more valuable, but a hit is always better than a walk.

 

I'd rather that people just stopped using BA as a key stat.

 

Agreed. If he can get on base, thats all that matters.

 

Yea, a hit is better than a walk sometiimes, but getting on base is better than not getting on base at all.

I'd still rather have a guy bat .320 with a .360 obp than a guy bat .230 with a .400 obp. Some of you overvalue the walk a little too much. I'll take a single over a walk with a man on second and two outs every time.

[Chocolate Milk]

He's 25. He has a career OPS of .900. What else do you want? He is one of the elite offensive performers in the game. BA is not important.

 

That might be a slight overstatement. OBP is much more valuable, but a hit is always better than a walk.

 

I'd rather that people just stopped using BA as a key stat.

 

Agreed. If he can get on base, thats all that matters.

 

Yea, a hit is better than a walk sometiimes, but getting on base is better than not getting on base at all.

I'd still rather have a guy bat .320 with a .360 obp than a guy bat .230 with a .400 obp. Some of you overvalue the walk a little too much. I'll take a single over a walk with a man on second and two outs every time.

 

I can't think of a senario where a walk is better than a hit. Even with no one on base, a hit has a chance to be mishandled into an extrabase error.

[Proven Veteran]

He's 25. He has a career OPS of .900. What else do you want? He is one of the elite offensive performers in the game. BA is not important.

 

That might be a slight overstatement. OBP is much more valuable, but a hit is always better than a walk.

 

I'd rather that people just stopped using BA as a key stat.

 

Agreed. If he can get on base, thats all that matters.

 

Yea, a hit is better than a walk sometiimes, but getting on base is better than not getting on base at all.

I'd still rather have a guy bat .320 with a .360 obp than a guy bat .230 with a .400 obp. Some of you overvalue the walk a little too much. I'll take a single over a walk with a man on second and two outs every time.

 

I'll take a walk over a ground out or pop out.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

He's 25. He has a career OPS of .900. What else do you want? He is one of the elite offensive performers in the game. BA is not important.

 

That might be a slight overstatement. OBP is much more valuable, but a hit is always better than a walk.

 

I'd rather that people just stopped using BA as a key stat.

 

Agreed. If he can get on base, thats all that matters.

 

Yea, a hit is better than a walk sometiimes, but getting on base is better than not getting on base at all.

I'd still rather have a guy bat .320 with a .360 obp than a guy bat .230 with a .400 obp. Some of you overvalue the walk a little too much. I'll take a single over a walk with a man on second and two outs every time.

 

I can't think of a senario where a walk is better than a hit. Even with no one on base, a hit has a chance to be mishandled into an extrabase error.

 

As BK pointed out in a previous thread, a player can get thrown out advancing a hit.

 

And the .230/.400 guy will score more runs for your team than the .320/.360 guy.

[nick23]

He's 25. He has a career OPS of .900. What else do you want? He is one of the elite offensive performers in the game. BA is not important.

 

That might be a slight overstatement. OBP is much more valuable, but a hit is always better than a walk.

 

I'd rather that people just stopped using BA as a key stat.

 

Agreed. If he can get on base, thats all that matters.

 

Yea, a hit is better than a walk sometiimes, but getting on base is better than not getting on base at all.

I'd still rather have a guy bat .320 with a .360 obp than a guy bat .230 with a .400 obp. Some of you overvalue the walk a little too much. I'll take a single over a walk with a man on second and two outs every time.

 

I'll take a walk over a ground out or pop out.

Who wouldn't?

[1908]

I'll take a walk over a ground out or pop out.

Who wouldn't?

That 40 point difference in OBP suggests you wouldn't.

 

Edited to shrink that quoting window down.

[dacheezwhiz]

im hearing corey,mitre, and hill for dunn. I think this trade benefits us nicely. COrey is not working out. Gerut/hairston can play cf or burnits can with gerut in right. Lf goes to dunn. Also, mitre's development seems to have stopped, id be glad to replace him on the bigs with one of our youngsters with a higher ceiling. Hill would be hard to part with but its adam frickin dunn. I can deal.

[treebird]

he homered, we gotta have him now

[Proven Veteran]

Hey, does anyone think Dunn would start if we traded for him? Holly has been paying his dues... Edited July 21, 2005 by Proven Veteran

[Roast]

I want dunn.

[nilodnayr]

In addition to that, i dont see why people say the wrigley grass would hinder that because wouldnt it just slow down groundballs ad bunts dead in the grass making it easier for him to beat it out? Anyways i just wanted to see why many people are obsessed with Adam Dunn.

 

P.S- I'm Rammy Fanny and I'm new to the Board!! :D

 

Not to go off topic, but Pierre has more ground ball singles that scoot through the infield due to a faster surface than infield singles he can beat out due to a slower surface. Thats why Wrigley grass would hinder him.

[treebird]

rbi walk, proves clutchness, will trade z and prior for him

[nilodnayr]

I'll take a walk over a ground out or pop out.

Who wouldn't?

That 40 point difference in OBP suggests you wouldn't.

 

Edited to shrink that quoting window down.

 

1908s point is its not I'd rather have a walk over a hit, its I'd rather have a walk than a ball put into play. There is no chance of getting out on your way to first with a walk but on average around a 60% chance of getting out when you put the ball into play. Not to mention double plays. Putting the ball into play and moving runners has its merit, but statisically it creates less runs than walking. And I like creating runs.

[rocket]

0-4 with two strikeouts tonight.

 

This guy is just one more free-swinger who strikes out waay to often. IIRC, he's leading the league in that right now. I mean, we chased Sammy out of town why? Why give up good basic baseball players to have Dunn. Frankly, if Murton keeps playing like he is now, I don't see a reason to replace him.

 

 

EDIT: I'll be editing the post as the series continues.

 

he's doing good in the series now, are you going to update it?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

0-4 with two strikeouts tonight.

 

This guy is just one more free-swinger who strikes out waay to often. IIRC, he's leading the league in that right now. I mean, we chased Sammy out of town why? Why give up good basic baseball players to have Dunn. Frankly, if Murton keeps playing like he is now, I don't see a reason to replace him.

 

 

EDIT: I'll be editing the post as the series continues.

 

he's doing good in the series now, are you going to update it?

 

Of course not, why let a series worth of stats outweigh one game?

[imb]

0-4 with two strikeouts tonight.

 

This guy is just one more free-swinger who strikes out waay to often. IIRC, he's leading the league in that right now. I mean, we chased Sammy out of town why? Why give up good basic baseball players to have Dunn. Frankly, if Murton keeps playing like he is now, I don't see a reason to replace him.

 

 

EDIT: I'll be editing the post as the series continues.

 

he's doing good in the series now, are you going to update it?

 

Of course not, why let a series worth of stats outweigh one game?

 

Or a career's for that matter.

[nick23]

He's 25. He has a career OPS of .900. What else do you want? He is one of the elite offensive performers in the game. BA is not important.

 

That might be a slight overstatement. OBP is much more valuable, but a hit is always better than a walk.

 

I'd rather that people just stopped using BA as a key stat.

 

Agreed. If he can get on base, thats all that matters.

 

Yea, a hit is better than a walk sometiimes, but getting on base is better than not getting on base at all.

I'd still rather have a guy bat .320 with a .360 obp than a guy bat .230 with a .400 obp. Some of you overvalue the walk a little too much. I'll take a single over a walk with a man on second and two outs every time.

 

I can't think of a senario where a walk is better than a hit. Even with no one on base, a hit has a chance to be mishandled into an extrabase error.

 

As BK pointed out in a previous thread, a player can get thrown out advancing a hit.

 

And the .230/.400 guy will score more runs for your team than the .320/.360 guy.

In that same scenario, the .320/.360 guy will drive in more runs. My point is unless we're planning on Dunn leading off, I want my middle of the order guy driving in runs, not taking walks while batting with RISP.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

He's 25. He has a career OPS of .900. What else do you want? He is one of the elite offensive performers in the game. BA is not important.

 

That might be a slight overstatement. OBP is much more valuable, but a hit is always better than a walk.

 

I'd rather that people just stopped using BA as a key stat.

 

Agreed. If he can get on base, thats all that matters.

 

Yea, a hit is better than a walk sometiimes, but getting on base is better than not getting on base at all.

I'd still rather have a guy bat .320 with a .360 obp than a guy bat .230 with a .400 obp. Some of you overvalue the walk a little too much. I'll take a single over a walk with a man on second and two outs every time.

 

I can't think of a senario where a walk is better than a hit. Even with no one on base, a hit has a chance to be mishandled into an extrabase error.

 

As BK pointed out in a previous thread, a player can get thrown out advancing a hit.

 

And the .230/.400 guy will score more runs for your team than the .320/.360 guy.

In that same scenario, the .320/.360 guy will drive in more runs. My point is unless we're planning on Dunn leading off, I want my middle of the order guy driving in runs, not taking walks while batting with RISP.

 

That's not true. The guy may not drive in more runs himself, but when you compare [same lineup with .320/.360 guy] v. [same lineup with .230/.400 guy] the lineup with the .400 OBP guy is going to score more runs. Also worth pointing out, many of the people who fall closer to the .300/.360 category have very little power, while you'll find that .230/.400 guys are more TTT players and have significantly more power, which adds to the advantage they have over the .300/.360 guy.

[nick23]

He's 25. He has a career OPS of .900. What else do you want? He is one of the elite offensive performers in the game. BA is not important.

 

That might be a slight overstatement. OBP is much more valuable, but a hit is always better than a walk.

 

I'd rather that people just stopped using BA as a key stat.

 

Agreed. If he can get on base, thats all that matters.

 

Yea, a hit is better than a walk sometiimes, but getting on base is better than not getting on base at all.

I'd still rather have a guy bat .320 with a .360 obp than a guy bat .230 with a .400 obp. Some of you overvalue the walk a little too much. I'll take a single over a walk with a man on second and two outs every time.

 

I can't think of a senario where a walk is better than a hit. Even with no one on base, a hit has a chance to be mishandled into an extrabase error.

 

As BK pointed out in a previous thread, a player can get thrown out advancing a hit.

 

And the .230/.400 guy will score more runs for your team than the .320/.360 guy.

In that same scenario, the .320/.360 guy will drive in more runs. My point is unless we're planning on Dunn leading off, I want my middle of the order guy driving in runs, not taking walks while batting with RISP.

 

That's not true. The guy may not drive in more runs himself, but when you compare [same lineup with .320/.360 guy] v. [same lineup with .230/.400 guy] the lineup with the .400 OBP guy is going to score more runs. Also worth pointing out, many of the people who fall closer to the .300/.360 category have very little power, while you'll find that .230/.400 guys are more TTT players and have significantly more power, which adds to the advantage they have over the .300/.360 guy.

That's just completely untrue. Just doing a quick scan on ESPN stat leaders I see that Andrew Jones, Carlos Lee, and Mark Teixeira all have OBP's of less than .360. I would consider them all pretty powerful. They also all have more rbi's than Dunn. There's a reason Dunn has 25 Hr's and 52 rbi's. He doesn't hit with runners in scoring position. Now don't get me wrong I think he's a fine player with a lot of potential, but some of you who think he's the savior that will put this team over the top have him way overvalued.

[AAApittsburgh]

That's just completely untrue. Just doing a quick scan on ESPN stat leaders I see that Andrew Jones, Carlos Lee, and Mark Teixeira all have OBP's of less than .360. I would consider them all pretty powerful. They also all have more rbi's than Dunn. There's a reason Dunn has 25 Hr's and 52 rbi's. He doesn't hit with runners in scoring position. Now don't get me wrong I think he's a fine player with a lot of potential, but some of you who think he's the savior that will put this team over the top have him way overvalued.

RBIs are an independent stat. It's not Dunn's fault that his RBI total is low. It probably has more to do with the guys hitting in from of him. I think if you were to stick Dunn between Lee and Aram, he'd see better pitches to hit, and wouldn't be pitched around quite as much. Therefore, his Ks would go down, his average would go up, and his RBI total would go up. His walks would obviously go down, but he'd be hitting for a higher average so his OBP would stay about the same.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

He's 25. He has a career OPS of .900. What else do you want? He is one of the elite offensive performers in the game. BA is not important.

 

That might be a slight overstatement. OBP is much more valuable, but a hit is always better than a walk.

 

I'd rather that people just stopped using BA as a key stat.

 

Agreed. If he can get on base, thats all that matters.

 

Yea, a hit is better than a walk sometiimes, but getting on base is better than not getting on base at all.

I'd still rather have a guy bat .320 with a .360 obp than a guy bat .230 with a .400 obp. Some of you overvalue the walk a little too much. I'll take a single over a walk with a man on second and two outs every time.

 

I can't think of a senario where a walk is better than a hit. Even with no one on base, a hit has a chance to be mishandled into an extrabase error.

 

As BK pointed out in a previous thread, a player can get thrown out advancing a hit.

 

And the .230/.400 guy will score more runs for your team than the .320/.360 guy.

In that same scenario, the .320/.360 guy will drive in more runs. My point is unless we're planning on Dunn leading off, I want my middle of the order guy driving in runs, not taking walks while batting with RISP.

 

That's not true. The guy may not drive in more runs himself, but when you compare [same lineup with .320/.360 guy] v. [same lineup with .230/.400 guy] the lineup with the .400 OBP guy is going to score more runs. Also worth pointing out, many of the people who fall closer to the .300/.360 category have very little power, while you'll find that .230/.400 guys are more TTT players and have significantly more power, which adds to the advantage they have over the .300/.360 guy.

That's just completely untrue. Just doing a quick scan on ESPN stat leaders I see that Andrew Jones, Carlos Lee, and Mark Teixeira all have OBP's of less than .360. I would consider them all pretty powerful. They also all have more rbi's than Dunn. There's a reason Dunn has 25 Hr's and 52 rbi's. He doesn't hit with runners in scoring position. Now don't get me wrong I think he's a fine player with a lot of potential, but some of you who think he's the savior that will put this team over the top have him way overvalued.

 

None of the players you mentioned are within 20 points of hitting .300, and Lee isn't even close to the .360 OBP benchmark laid out. RBI's aren't telling the whole story when it comes to Dunn. He walks often w/ RISP likely because he hits 6th in the Reds lineup. Were he in an appropriate place in the order, he would likely get more pitches to hit, and get a few more hits than walks in those situations. Regardless, RBI and even HR are not a very good way to measure run production. As it stands, Dunn is one of the most productive offensive players in the league. There may be debate on how much we should give up for him, but it really should be clear cut that he is about as good an acquisition any team could hope to make.