Complaints unfounded?

[Rooster]

Why do so many Cardinals and their fans keep bemoaning their lack of home field advantage last year.

 

2 games in each location IIRC.

 

You know if the Cards could have actually pulled off one win, they'd have had the home field advantage.

[ltb]

i love how results-oriented all the cardinal fans are being in this thread. had carpenter given up a run, we wouldn't see this thread.

 

clemens deserved to start this game, plain and simple.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

I still think Carpenter was a perfectly logical choice, given the Clemens/Piazza feud and Piazza's inability to throw out a baserunner.

That might have made some sense if Clemens didn't start last year with Piazza catching. Why does that second comment make any difference?

 

Ummm, didn't the Clemens-Piazza battery give up 6 runs in the first inning last year?

Was that because of the "feud" or because Clemens did a bad job of pitching?

[ManEatingTarp]

i love how results-oriented all the cardinal fans are being in this thread. had carpenter given up a run, we wouldn't see this thread.

 

clemens deserved to start this game, plain and simple.

 

That's because most Cardinal fans are results-oriented.

[1wizard]

Why do so many Cardinals and their fans keep bemoaning their lack of home field advantage last year.

 

I cannot speak on behalf of all the Cardinal fans, but home field to a WC team is a joke. What is the purpose of winning more games throughout the course of the season if it does not mean anything?

 

For example, I remember a lot of Cub fans complaining that TLR might throw games in order to hurt the Cubs chances at the WC (which was unfounded). Under the current system and the Cards large lead wouldn't it be logical for TLR to rest his older players in order to maintain their health. As long as they are assured home field advantage during the NL championship, that is all he should really care about. Thus, at the end of the season the Cards could be putting out a weak lineup against WC teams in order to maintain their health and stamina. That is not a good situation to be in and could be misconstrued as throwing games.

 

As for last year, the Red Sox already had the momentum of winning 4 straight games against their rival. Then add to that home field advantage. The momentum was clearly on their side.

 

NOTE: In no way do I think that the Home Field advantage cost the Cardinals the WS.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Why do so many Cardinals and their fans keep bemoaning their lack of home field advantage last year.

 

I cannot speak on behalf of all the Cardinal fans, but home field to a WC team is a joke. What is the purpose of winning more games throughout the course of the season if it does not mean anything?

 

For example, I remember a lot of Cub fans complaining that TLR might throw games in order to hurt the Cubs chances at the WC (which was unfounded). Under the current system and the Cards large lead wouldn't it be logical for TLR to rest his older players in order to maintain their health. As long as they are assured home field advantage during the NL championship, that is all he should really care about. Thus, at the end of the season the Cards could be putting out a weak lineup against WC teams in order to maintain their health and stamina. That is not a good situation to be in and could be misconstrued as throwing games.

 

As for last year, the Red Sox already had the momentum of winning 4 straight games against their rival. Then add to that home field advantage. The momentum was clearly on their side.

 

NOTE: In no way do I think that the Home Field advantage cost the Cardinals the WS.

 

Well, to challenge your point just a bit...homefield in the World Series has never in my lifetime gone to the team with the best record. While I'm no fan of the "This time it counts" ASG-incentive program, prior to this season homefield for the WS rotated between the leagues. So, homefield has never really been granted on merit.

 

And your scenario of teams resting players, particularly starting pitchers has always been a possibility based on the fact that homefield in the WS was not dependent on regular season records.

[UK1679666180]

Personally, if the Cards didn't have to play Sunday night and travel to Detroit early Monday morning, I think the NL would've won the WC. :D

 

It isn't irony that the HFA impacted by the AS game hasn't been a factor in either of two WS since the rule was in place. Florida and Boston would've won home, away, or in Siberia.

[gus_dog]

Personally, if the Cards didn't have to play Sunday night and travel to Detroit early Monday morning, I think the NL would've won the WC. :D

 

It isn't irony that the HFA impacted by the AS game hasn't been a factor in either of two WS since the rule was in place. Florida and Boston would've won home, away, or in Siberia.

 

Играйте в бейсбол! (Play ball!)

[Rooster]

Why do so many Cardinals and their fans keep bemoaning their lack of home field advantage last year.

 

I cannot speak on behalf of all the Cardinal fans, but home field to a WC team is a joke. What is the purpose of winning more games throughout the course of the season if it does not mean anything?

 

For example, I remember a lot of Cub fans complaining that TLR might throw games in order to hurt the Cubs chances at the WC (which was unfounded). Under the current system and the Cards large lead wouldn't it be logical for TLR to rest his older players in order to maintain their health. As long as they are assured home field advantage during the NL championship, that is all he should really care about. Thus, at the end of the season the Cards could be putting out a weak lineup against WC teams in order to maintain their health and stamina. That is not a good situation to be in and could be misconstrued as throwing games.

 

As for last year, the Red Sox already had the momentum of winning 4 straight games against their rival. Then add to that home field advantage. The momentum was clearly on their side.

 

NOTE: In no way do I think that the Home Field advantage cost the Cardinals the WS.

 

That's a perfectly reasonable response.

 

I was just wondering why I hear so many unreasonable fans, coaches, sportscasters, etc. continuing to whine about that.

 

I don't imagine they're going to come here and tell me.

[Catman61]

Personally, if the Cards didn't have to play Sunday night and travel to Detroit early Monday morning, I think the NL would've won the WC. :D

 

It isn't irony that the HFA impacted by the AS game hasn't been a factor in either of two WS since the rule was in place. Florida and Boston would've won home, away, or in Siberia.

A nice thought but completely unprovable (or disprovable for that matter)

[Catman61]

I still think Carpenter was a perfectly logical choice, given the Clemens/Piazza feud and Piazza's inability to throw out a baserunner.

That might have made some sense if Clemens didn't start last year with Piazza catching. Why does that second comment make any difference?

 

Ummm, didn't the Clemens-Piazza battery give up 6 runs in the first inning last year?

Was that because of the "feud" or because Clemens did a bad job of pitching?

I don't pretend to know, what I do know is combining a pitcher & catcher who have a hatred or at least severe dislike of each other is less likely to obtain optimum results and any manager in any type of business should try to avoid forcing that combo if possible.

[1wizard]

That's a perfectly reasonable response.

 

I was just wondering why I hear so many unreasonable fans, coaches, sportscasters, etc. continuing to whine about that.

 

I don't imagine they're going to come here and tell me.

 

I have not heard too many Cardinal fans on here complain about it, and those who are complaining should be forced to watch the series over again. :oops: There are numerous reasons why the Cards lost and the most important reason was that the Red Sox were superior at that point in the season.

 

My feeling is that the ASG should not determine the home field advantage. First of all, the best players typically do not play that big of a roll in the game. For example, Albert and D. Lee only had 5 at bats in the game. And no manager is going to risk an injury to other teams players or their own. Moreover, the voting system is clearly flawed when we are subject to watching Piazza and Beltran bat. :oops:

 

Vance Wrote:

Well, to challenge your point just a bit...homefield in the World Series has never in my lifetime gone to the team with the best record. While I'm no fan of the "This time it counts" ASG-incentive program, prior to this season homefield for the WS rotated between the leagues. So, homefield has never really been granted on merit.

 

I think I knew this. :? I would prefer bringing back the alternating system. Yet, I really do not think that the WC should get home field advantage though, because they always seem to have the momentum based on their fight to win their playoff position. This does not reward teams for playing well the whole season which should have some importance.(IMO)

[Illini Iceman]

Why do so many Cardinals and their fans keep bemoaning their lack of home field advantage last year.

 

I cannot speak on behalf of all the Cardinal fans, but home field to a WC team is a joke. What is the purpose of winning more games throughout the course of the season if it does not mean anything?

 

For example, I remember a lot of Cub fans complaining that TLR might throw games in order to hurt the Cubs chances at the WC (which was unfounded). Under the current system and the Cards large lead wouldn't it be logical for TLR to rest his older players in order to maintain their health. As long as they are assured home field advantage during the NL championship, that is all he should really care about. Thus, at the end of the season the Cards could be putting out a weak lineup against WC teams in order to maintain their health and stamina. That is not a good situation to be in and could be misconstrued as throwing games.

 

As for last year, the Red Sox already had the momentum of winning 4 straight games against their rival. Then add to that home field advantage. The momentum was clearly on their side.

 

NOTE: In no way do I think that the Home Field advantage cost the Cardinals the WS.

 

Well, to challenge your point just a bit...homefield in the World Series has never in my lifetime gone to the team with the best record. While I'm no fan of the "This time it counts" ASG-incentive program, prior to this season homefield for the WS rotated between the leagues. So, homefield has never really been granted on merit.

 

And your scenario of teams resting players, particularly starting pitchers has always been a possibility based on the fact that homefield in the WS was not dependent on regular season records.

 

And if there were any justice the Cubs would have had home field advantage for the NL playoffs in '84 which probably would have meant.....I'm sorry I can't go on any further, the pain is too great. :cry:

[UK1679666180]

Personally, if the Cards didn't have to play Sunday night and travel to Detroit early Monday morning, I think the NL would've won the WC. :D

 

It isn't irony that the HFA impacted by the AS game hasn't been a factor in either of two WS since the rule was in place. Florida and Boston would've won home, away, or in Siberia.

A nice thought but completely unprovable (or disprovable for that matter)

 

I don't need proof to tell me that HFA would not mattered in either the Yankees or the Cardinals. I have proof that the Marlins and Red Sox outplayed their opponent and won in their opposition's stadium. Given that Marlins and Red Sox without a doubt outplayed their our opponent are you saying HFA actually occured and that the resuls would have been different? B/c, I'll say it didn't matter, the Marlins and Red Sox would've won regardless where it was played. They way they outplayed them is my proof and more than overwhelming evidence.

[Catman61]

Personally, if the Cards didn't have to play Sunday night and travel to Detroit early Monday morning, I think the NL would've won the WC. :D

 

It isn't irony that the HFA impacted by the AS game hasn't been a factor in either of two WS since the rule was in place. Florida and Boston would've won home, away, or in Siberia.

A nice thought but completely unprovable (or disprovable for that matter)

 

I don't need proof to tell me that HFA would not mattered in either the Yankees or the Cardinals. I have proof that the Marlins and Red Sox outplayed their opponent and won in their opposition's stadium. Given that Marlins and Red Sox without a doubt outplayed their our opponent are you saying HFA actually occured and that the resuls would have been different? B/c, I'll say it didn't matter, the Marlins and Red Sox would've won regardless where it was played. They way they outplayed them is my proof and more than overwhelming evidence.

Sorry but it isn't.

 

I am not saying the Cards WOULD have won had the NL had HFA but I think without a doubt that it would have been far more competitive.

 

But as I said I cannot prove that it would have made a difference just as you cannot prove it wouldn't.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Personally, if the Cards didn't have to play Sunday night and travel to Detroit early Monday morning, I think the NL would've won the WC. :D

 

It isn't irony that the HFA impacted by the AS game hasn't been a factor in either of two WS since the rule was in place. Florida and Boston would've won home, away, or in Siberia.

A nice thought but completely unprovable (or disprovable for that matter)

 

I don't need proof to tell me that HFA would not mattered in either the Yankees or the Cardinals. I have proof that the Marlins and Red Sox outplayed their opponent and won in their opposition's stadium. Given that Marlins and Red Sox without a doubt outplayed their our opponent are you saying HFA actually occured and that the resuls would have been different? B/c, I'll say it didn't matter, the Marlins and Red Sox would've won regardless where it was played. They way they outplayed them is my proof and more than overwhelming evidence.

Sorry but it isn't.

 

I am not saying the Cards WOULD have won had the NL had HFA but I think without a doubt that it would have been far more competitive.

 

But as I said I cannot prove that it would have made a difference just as you cannot prove it wouldn't.

 

The Cards lost two games on the road and two games at home. Had they won the games at home, I might could buy your argument. As it occured, I don't see how anyone could say not having homefield mattered at all. There's no logic to that whatsoever.

[indifferent]

Have to agree there, Catman. What UK's eyes are telling him is also what the stats are telling him, let alone the lack of home wins.

[Catman61]

Have to agree there, Catman. What UK's eyes are telling him is also what the stats are telling him, let alone the lack of home wins.

 

The STATS also said that there was no way the BoSox should have won the ALCS but they did and it all hinged on one play or misplay.

 

Game 1 Mark Bellhorn

[TruffleShuffle]

Have to agree there, Catman. What UK's eyes are telling him is also what the stats are telling him, let alone the lack of home wins.

 

The STATS also said that there was no way the BoSox should have won the ALCS but they did and it all hinged on one play or misplay.

 

Game 1 Mark Bellhorn

 

The Red Sox winning the ALCS hinged on Mark Bellhorn doing something in a game they lost?

[vaball]

Have to agree there, Catman. What UK's eyes are telling him is also what the stats are telling him, let alone the lack of home wins.

 

The STATS also said that there was no way the BoSox should have won the ALCS but they did and it all hinged on one play or misplay.

 

Game 1 Mark Bellhorn

 

The Red Sox winning the ALCS hinged on Mark Bellhorn doing something in a game they lost?

 

I think he's talking about Bellhorn's go ahead home run in game one of the WS.

[UK1679666180]

Why shouldn't the Red Sox have gone to the WS? They outplayed the Yankees in more games than the Yankees outplayed the Red Sox.

 

Granted it was a much closer series than the WS, but the Red Sox earned that, you hit Rivera in those situations like Boston and you deserve to go to the WS.

 

Boston played better on the road in the WS than at home, I don't think game 1 of the WS was the deciding factor of the entire series. That happened to be the only game STL had any sign of offense.

 

HFA hasn't had a role in any of two WS that have been impacted by the all-star game. I haven't seen it.

 

Boston outplayed their opponent at home and on the road.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

Why shouldn't the Red Sox have gone to the WS? They outplayed the Yankees in more games than the Yankees outplayed the Red Sox.

 

Granted it was a much closer series than the WS, but the Red Sox earned that, you hit Rivera in those situations like Boston and you deserve to go to the WS.

 

Boston played better on the road in the WS than at home, I don't think game 1 of the WS was the deciding factor of the entire series. That happened to be the only game STL had any sign of offense.

 

HFA hasn't had a role in any of two WS that have been impacted by the all-star game. I haven't seen it.

 

Boston outplayed their opponent at home and on the road.

 

Excellent assesment and I agree completely.