Judging Sosa Deal (New Baltimore-based article added p.5)

[TrueBlueCubFan]

we won and we lost on this switch. we are basically still paying both players. baltimore gets a free player. burnitz has better stats than sammy but they are certainly not stud numbers. they probably won't match sammy's last years numbers. we are far worse a team than we were last year and our outfield and offense is worse.

.253 35/80

2 of those 3 numbers he will!

[neely crenshaw]

beware of his batting average! he will most certainly beat sammy's rbi total...mostly due to sammy's missed time..if burnitz misses anytime he may miss that one also. 250ish is a very burnitz like number

[AramisRamirez]

i was half right. i thought sammy was/is the most overpaid player in baseball and had to moved by any means necessary. i also thought burnitz was a bum and would crumble in the big market like he did in NY. i knew he hit 37 HR's last year but i thought coors played a big role in that due to his poor road BA. but i was wrong...

 

anyways sammy still sucks thank God he's gone. he's now batting .220, which makes corey patterson look like wade boggs.

 

we're partly better because he's gone, but worse because injuries to our three biggest names (garciaparra, wood, prior) have killed us.

[CubFanPhilly]

...we are basically still paying both players. baltimore gets a free player.

 

Baltimore is paying Sosa $9 mil.

[SouthSideRyan]

we won and we lost on this switch. we are basically still paying both players. baltimore gets a free player. burnitz has better stats than sammy but they are certainly not stud numbers. they probably won't match sammy's last years numbers. we are far worse a team than we were last year and our outfield and offense is worse.

 

You shouldn't compare Burnitz's numbers this year to Sosa's last year. Becasue Sosa this year does not = Sosa last year.

[dalgreen]

we won and we lost on this switch. we are basically still paying both players. baltimore gets a free player. burnitz has better stats than sammy but they are certainly not stud numbers. they probably won't match sammy's last years numbers. we are far worse a team than we were last year and our outfield and offense is worse.

 

You shouldn't compare Burnitz's numbers this year to Sosa's last year. Becasue Sosa this year does not = Sosa last year.

 

And Sosa wasn't the player of 2004 that he was in 2003, and he wasn't the player in 2003 that he was in 2002 --- that's what the stats show. Which is why I don't know why more people aren't happy that there was a team even interested in dealing for Sosa. I can honestly say if I were a GM I don't know why I would take any guy who has a three year drop off in several offensive categories.

[Cubzfan64]

I have the misfortune of mis-judging Sammy Sosa now on 2 occassions:

 

1. I don't recall what year it was, but it was just before Sammy started his career years. I remember watching him swing at balls in the dirt a foot outside consistently and believed he would never adjust his swing and become more patient at the plate.

 

I was wrong and the next year he took a tremendous number of walks, hit alot of balls to the opposite field and began his ascent to becoming one of if not THE premier power hitter of the time.

 

2. After the trade (which I think was something that under the circumstances was something that had to be done - for the best of both Sammy and the Cubs organization) I honestly thought he would have a resurgence of sorts and have an excellent season for Baltimore. I fully expected him to be in the 40+ HR, 100+ RBI category in 2005 as more or less a "last hurrah" for his career.

 

I'm honestly surprised at how quickly his fortune has turned and as others have said, he really is just a shell of his former self in only a matter of a couple years.

 

His ascent was rapid, but his decline has been just the same.

 

I feel sorry for him to tell you the truth.

[Chocolate Milk]

I feel sorry for him to tell you the truth.

 

I do too.

[Cubzfan64]

I feel sorry for him to tell you the truth.

 

I do too.

 

He could have and SHOULD have gone out of baseball as an idol and hero in the game for the Chicago Cubs, but his ego got the best of him and his offensive discipline that served him so well for a number of years seemingly disappeared in late 2003, was gone in 2004 and apparenly isn't going to arrive anymore.

 

He's a very proud player and I'm sure the personal attacks (booing etc...) that he started to receive on a regular basis affected his game and life - I believe it would for 99% of us.

 

The organization and fans share some of the fault as well as Sammy - a divorce is rarely 100% the fault of one side.

 

Because of the way he left Chicago, the rapid descent of his abilities and the timing of him falling on hard times as a baseball player, his career will forever be tainted by questions of steroid use. My guess is a guy who several years ago was a sure thing for the Hall of Fame will never be voted in by the members.

 

It is indeed a sad turn of events for Sosa - from the top of the mountain to the bottom.

 

Oh - and for what it's worth Burnitz has performed better than I had anticipated - still not certain he's worth the $ but he's far from being the most disappointing aspect of the 2005 Cubs imho.

[gus_dog]

Anybody here think Sosa might actually be 42-44 years old?

 

It kind of makes sense with his rapid descent a couple of years ago.

[jjgman21]

Anybody here think Sosa might actually be 42-44 years old?

 

It kind of makes sense with his rapid descent a couple of years ago.

 

there is certainly a possibiliy, and the age scams of a few years ago makes if plausible. things are different now then they were back when Sosa was coming up however. as we all know, there was the big rash of players saying they were younger than they really were a few years ago. players from the DR lied alot about how old they were back when Sosa was breaking into professional baseball too. however, for the most part they lied and said they were older than they really were back then (the reason being the rule that you could not sign unless 16 or play in the U.S. until 18).

 

thus, if Sosa did lie about his age, he was a true revolutionary.

[Cubzfan64]

Anybody here think Sosa might actually be 42-44 years old?

 

It kind of makes sense with his rapid descent a couple of years ago.

 

Possible - isn't Julio Franco actually going on 72? :wink:

[katway]

My guess is a guy who several years ago was a sure thing for the Hall of Fame will never be voted in by the members.

 

My guess is that by the time he hangs up the cleats he will have 600+ homers and still be the only player with 4 strait years of 50+ homers, etc. Those numbers alone will make him a first ballot Hall of Famer unless there is significant proof of steriods, etc. He may not be the most beloved player among his peers or the media, but his accomplishments cannot be ignored unless dismissed as steroid enhanced, etc.

[Cubzfan64]

My guess is a guy who several years ago was a sure thing for the Hall of Fame will never be voted in by the members.

 

My guess is that by the time he hangs up the cleats he will have 600+ homers and still be the only player with 4 strait years of 50+ homers, etc. Those numbers alone will make him a first ballot Hall of Famer unless there is significant proof of steriods, etc. He may not be the most beloved player among his peers or the media, but his accomplishments cannot be ignored unless dismissed as steroid enhanced, etc.

 

I understand what you're saying, and his streak of 50+ homer seasons (as well as breaking the Maris record) would put him in good standing, but I just have this weird feeling that alot of the folks who vote for the HOF will hold off because of the steroid potential - I honestly don't know if Sammy ever did them or not and I doubt we will ever really know.

 

What I do know is that Sosa was amazing during the years where apparently steroid use was/is in serious question and his numbers changed drastically at a very inopurtune time for him because of the questions. His body shape in 2005 seems different to me too (and I've heard it mentioned numerous times by other people as well).

 

I just think there are alot of baseball "purists" out there who vote for the HOF who will tend to not giving him the benefit of the doubt rather than looking past it.

 

Who knows - I guess we'll find out in a few years.

[Kay]

He could have and SHOULD have gone out of baseball as an idol and hero in the game for the Chicago Cubs, but his ego got the best of him and his offensive discipline that served him so well for a number of years seemingly disappeared in late 2003, was gone in 2004 and apparenly isn't going to arrive anymore.

 

...

 

Oh - and for what it's worth Burnitz has performed better than I had anticipated - still not certain he's worth the $ but he's far from being the most disappointing aspect of the 2005 Cubs imho.

 

I agree that he should have retired as an "idol." It seems whenever someone mentions the Cubs to him now he gets miserable & snappy.

 

& we all know his homers turned to strikeouts in a heartbeat.

 

I like Burnitz, he's done better than I'd imagined when I heard he was the replacment. He may not be a hot shot at the plate all the time, but his fielding makes up for it, I think.

[series65cubsfan]

Welcome to the forums!

[neely crenshaw]

i am judging sosa last year vs burnitz this year because we had sosa(and alous) numbers last year and missed the playoffs. the idea is to improve your team. so if we are going to judge how the replacement is doing, you have to factor in what he replaced.

 

i think the age questions is very possible. it is very common practice among foriegn players to cheat up and down in age, depending on which is best for their prospect status. remember fernando valenzuela was 19 when he came up, even though he looked like he had kids in high school~!

[Peoriaman]

my thoughts:

 

Sosa is older than he says

 

Sosa took steriods which has contributed to his rapid "declne"

 

It is obvious dealing Sosa was the right move. We saved some money and can you imagine what the locker room would be like with Sosa here batting .220?

[SouthSideRyan]

i am judging sosa last year vs burnitz this year because we had sosa(and alous) numbers last year and missed the playoffs. the idea is to improve your team. so if we are going to judge how the replacement is doing, you have to factor in what he replaced.

 

i think the age questions is very possible. it is very common practice among foriegn players to cheat up and down in age, depending on which is best for their prospect status. remember fernando valenzuela was 19 when he came up, even though he looked like he had kids in high school~!

 

I understand that we needed to replace what Sosa did last year, but in the context of the trade, it isn't a fair comparison. We were already stuck paying Sosa 18M(?) to perform like he is this year. The deal should be judged based on what people think we could've gotten in return for a declining Sosa.

[biittner77]

From the O's perspective this trade has been a bust so far. Considering all their injuries, (Matos, Mora and Roberts) the O's could have used Hairston and Fontenot. Sosa hasn't provided as much power as they had expected. On the bright side, he's not as much of a distraction because no one cares about him. Also, with the team winning it sort of puts Sosa's lack of productivity on the back burner.

[fishbulb]

Don't forget that we also got Fontenot and he has scored 4 runs in 4 plate appearances.

[badger1679666666]

SOSA maligned in Baltimore Press Edited July 19, 2005 by badger

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I saw "Sammy has a selfish swing", and I was done reading the article.

[badger1679666666]

I saw "Sammy has a selfish swing", and I was done reading the article.

 

Well they make a good comparison to Raffy's swing vs. Sosa's.

[CubinNY]

I saw "Sammy has a selfish swing", and I was done reading the article.

 

Well they make a good comparison to Raffy's swing vs. Sosa's.

 

No they don't actually. That article is a piece of drivel worthy of wrapping fish and not much else.

 

Sammy is not getting the job done, end of the story. I don't know why people feel the need to vilify the man too.

 

Same goes with Patterson. It wasn't enough that he was mired in a season long slump, people had to make him out to be a terrible person too.

 

But hey, if it makes you happy....