Corey only has himself to blame for free swinging...

[Elrhino]

"To me, one of the disappointing things was that after he talked to [Cubs manager Dusty Baker] and said he wanted to move back up to the leadoff spot, he knew what he had to do," Clines said. "He had to bunt, take more pitches, get in the count, be creative. And he didn't do it.

 

"It was a constant reminder, 'Get into the count,' 'Run more,'" Clines said. "These are things we've been saying for three years. I felt so good when he said he was ready to move back into the leadoff spot. Maybe he's turned the page and was ready to do the little things, but he hit rock bottom."

 

 

http://chicago.cubs.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20050708&content_id=1121382&vkey=news_chc&fext=.jsp&c_id=chc

[treebird]

sounds like somebody's afraid of getting fired

[bmkhawk]

Or maybe, just maybe...it's possible that Corey's struggles are really the result of his own stubbornness all along?

 

It may be hard for some to acknowledge that possibility, but it is certainly a very real one.

Edited July 9, 2005 by bmkhawk

[YearofDaCubs]

Or maybe, just maybe...it's possible that Corey's struggles are really the result of his own stubbornness all along?

 

I may be hard for some to acknowledge that possibility, but it is certainly a very real one.

Sounds like it to me. You can only blame the staff so much.

[dalgreen]

Or maybe, just maybe...it's possible that Corey's struggles are really the result of his own stubbornness all along?

 

I may be hard for some to acknowledge that possibility, but it is certainly a very real one.

 

That's silly. Placing responsibility on million dollar athletes instead of just the coaches? Come on. [-(

[UK1679666180]

It could be a little bit of both, personally I think both parties did a horrible job in this case. I thought the Cubs have handled Corey about as poorly as possible starting with not letting CP go to Daytona even for a brief period of time, then trying to make a leadoff hitter at Iowa, while rushing him in the process. Corey deserves blame for not being able to progress as a player, despite the negatives of how he has been handled, a player can still overcome the way he has been handled and progress from them (the situation where that would not be possible was if a pitcher was abused in the minors).

[stitchface]

He never learned the strike zone. Very few hitters learn the strike zone in the majors.

[UK1679666180]

Would he have learned it if he had been handled better? I obviously don't have the answer, but it is a fair question to ask and ponder about.

[Backtobanks]

I was watching a Comcast sports show and I don't remember which panelist said it, but pointed out that Corey never really dominated at any level since A ball. Maybe it was a case of being rushed and never learning what you need to learn in the minors, but there were periods when he would show some of that 5-tool potential.

[treebird]

hooray it's suddenly another "corey is stubborn and i know this by watching him on tv" thread

[davecubsfan]

shouldn't this be in the minor league forum now? :D

[hawkeyecub]

hooray it's suddenly another "corey is stubborn and i know this by watching him on tv" thread

 

How is that different than the "Dusty is stupid and i know this by watching him on tv" threads?

 

I'm as big of a Corey supporter as anyone, but it's certainly reasonable to think he may be a stubborn player after what we've seen from him on the field and then the quotes that have come from coaches and scouts.

It's not like the only people saying it are fans watching on tv, nor is it similar to those who say he's "dumb" because of what they see on tv.

 

Besides if the threads critical of Corey bother you that much, you could probably follow the advice you gave in the Dusty thread and simply not read them.

[Jon]

How is that different than the "Dusty is stupid and i know this by watching him on tv" threads?

 

I'm as big of a Corey supporter as anyone, but it's certainly reasonable to think he may be a stubborn player after what we've seen from him on the field and then the quotes that have come from coaches and scouts.

It's not like the only people saying it are fans watching on tv, nor is it similar to those who say he's "dumb" because of what they see on tv.

 

Besides if the threads critical of Corey bother you that much, you could probably follow the advice you gave in the Dusty thread and simply not read them.

The only quotes I've seen or heard from his coaches have been quite complimentary about Corey working extra hard and trying to change. He spent a lot of time this offseason and this spring trying to become a leadoff hitter who makes contact and slaps the ball around. He changed many thing, including his swing, because that's what the coaches and the organization told him to do. That failed because that's not the kind of player he is. Up until he was sent down, he was still working with at least three different coaches. That article only says that he just couldn't translate what he was doing in the batting cages to onfield performance.

 

"He knew it. He knew he could go in the cage and do it, he could do it in [batting practice], but when it came to game time, it wasn't there. I can't figure it out. All I can do is show you videos and tell you this is what you need to do. I don't know what else to do."

 

When you get a player who's been rushed through the system, you can't just try to change him into a completely different hitter when he hasn't had much luck trying to figure out the strike zone in the majors or maintaining a consistent swing. Patterson needs to go down there and just focus on improving the swing he was comfortable with. That wasn't what the coaches had him focusing on this year.

 

If it's stubborn to not want to turn yourself into a leadoff hitter when you know that's not the kind of player you are, I'd much rather see a stubborn Corey Patterson. Instead, he was the opposite and look at where he is now.

[bmkhawk]

edit

[treebird]

hooray it's suddenly another "corey is stubborn and i know this by watching him on tv" thread

 

How is that different than the "Dusty is stupid and i know this by watching him on tv" threads?

 

I think it's a lot easier to evaluate a manager's performance (which is where calling him stupid would come from) by watching him on tv than it would be to determine whether a certain player is stubborn or not. It's not like you can tell that Corey isn't trying in earnest to take more pitches and not swing at high fastballs. I can tell pretty easily that Dusty thinks playing Neifi instead of Ronny is a good idea.

[dalgreen]

I would be curious in knowing how many of the people who criticize the organization for rushing Corey are the same people wanting to see Pie brought up. I personally, don't want to see him in Chicago until September of 2006, with the intent on him starting in 2007.

 

I too think Corey's struggles are his fault and the organization's. Then, again, if Gary Matthews, Jr. had been able to hit, the Cubs wouldn't have felt a need to rush Corey. Yes, I'm stretching it with that one.

[TB_11]

Corey's ineffectiveness is primarily Corey's problem. If he needed management to teach him how to not be such a poor hitter, he doesn't deserve to be in the majors.

[bmkhawk]

hooray it's suddenly another "corey is stubborn and i know this by watching him on tv" thread

 

How is that different than the "Dusty is stupid and i know this by watching him on tv" threads?

 

I think it's a lot easier to evaluate a manager's performance (which is where calling him stupid would come from) by watching him on tv than it would be to determine whether a certain player is stubborn or not. It's not like you can tell that Corey isn't trying in earnest to take more pitches and not swing at high fastballs. I can tell pretty easily that Dusty thinks playing Neifi instead of Ronny is a good idea.

 

But how easy is it to see what the coaches are telling Corey behind the scene? And correspondingly, how well he responds to said directives?

[katway]

Sometimes I wonder if Corey was rushed, but most of the time I wonder whether he ever would have been ready given his stubborn approach to hitting. It will be interesting to see if he can even hit AAA pitching.

 

Given that today's AAA ball is essentially a practice squad and most up and coming talent is at AA ball, I don't think missing AAA was of any consequence. You can only learn to hit major league ptiching in the major leagues, you don't learn how to hit major league pitching at AA or AAA.

Edited July 10, 2005 by katway

[treebird]

hooray it's suddenly another "corey is stubborn and i know this by watching him on tv" thread

 

How is that different than the "Dusty is stupid and i know this by watching him on tv" threads?

 

I think it's a lot easier to evaluate a manager's performance (which is where calling him stupid would come from) by watching him on tv than it would be to determine whether a certain player is stubborn or not. It's not like you can tell that Corey isn't trying in earnest to take more pitches and not swing at high fastballs. I can tell pretty easily that Dusty thinks playing Neifi instead of Ronny is a good idea.

 

But how easy is it to see what the coaches are telling Corey behind the scene? And correspondingly, how well he responds to said directives?

 

That's exactly my point. We don't know that stuff. That's why it's dumb to make assumptions about whether or not he is stubborn.

[bmkhawk]

And equally dumb to presume that a coach is making up certain things that he is telling Corey in order to save his job.

[treebird]

And equally dumb to presume that a coach is making up certain things that he is telling Corey in order to save his job.

 

He might not be making them up, I just thought it was funny how he immediately jumped on him and claimed innocence the moment he was out the door.

[Elrhino]

I would be curious in knowing how many of the people who criticize the organization for rushing Corey are the same people wanting to see Pie brought up.

 

I wonder how many of those criticizing the organization for rushing Corey up were the ones clamoring for a Corey promotion in in 2000.

[burnt out cubbie fan]

I would be curious in knowing how many of the people who criticize the organization for rushing Corey are the same people wanting to see Pie brought up. I personally, don't want to see him in Chicago until September of 2006, with the intent on him starting in 2007.

I'm sure a lot of them don't want him called up before then. I know that I certainly don't and I have stated that multiple times.

 

What amazes me about that is the organization was reportedly thinking of making the same mistake twice and messing up another promising, young athlete.

[Soul]

Certainly the burden of blame for Corey's lack of flexibility since joining the Cubs has to go to Corey himself.

 

However, it's pretty clear we lack quality teachers in our minor leagues. Look how many great position players other ballclubs produce. Some teams bring up a quality position player EVERY SINGLE YEAR. We don't do *ANYTHING EVEN CLOSE* to these teams.

 

Corey is to blame for being unwilling to change lately, but Holy Strikeout Batman---we are terrible developing position players.