Ben Brown Joins Edward Cabrera In Going On Cubs' Injured List

[squally1313]

1 minute ago, Bertz said:

The Dodgers won a WS with 1 good SP who came off the IL in mid September, 1 ****** SP who had a well timed dead cat bounce, and a bullpen they rode like hell

• Matthew Boyd (you know another IL stint is coming)

 

• Shota

 

• Steele
• Cabrera
• Brown
• Peterson
• Palencia
• whichever 36 year old is hot at the moment
• whichever 38 year old is hot at the moment
• Hunter Harvey?

[Irrelevant Dude]

I saw this was classified as a "stress reaction," which I believe is the same exact injury that caused Brown to miss a significant amount of time 2 years ago.

[Rcal10]

2 hours ago, Irrelevant Dude said:

I saw this was classified as a "stress reaction," which I believe is the same exact injury that caused Brown to miss a significant amount of time 2 years ago.

Yep, he is going to gone a bit, as is Cabrera. Which is why I think the Cubs need two pitchers. I would like to see something like 2 guys from one team . Detmers and Soriano, Wacha or Lugo and Cameron, or Early and Gray. I would put both Shaw and Ballesteros in play for the right deal and add from there. They need guys now and after this year. 

[Jason Ross]

19 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

Yep, he is going to gone a bit, as is Cabrera. Which is why I think the Cubs need two pitchers. I would like to see something like 2 guys from one team . Detmers and Soriano, Wacha or Lugo and Cameron, or Early and Gray. I would put both Shaw and Ballesteros in play for the right deal and add from there. They need guys now and after this year. 

The Cubs don't have the juice to get Detmers and Soriano. They'd have to unload most of their good prospects. I think they have juice to get one of them. 

[We Got The Whole 9]

2 hours ago, Irrelevant Dude said:

I saw this was classified as a "stress reaction," which I believe is the same exact injury that caused Brown to miss a significant amount of time 2 years ago.

That must be why theres several articles with the Cubs saying its the same thing he faced in 2024

[Rcal10]

1 hour ago, Jason Ross said:

The Cubs don't have the juice to get Detmers and Soriano. They'd have to unload most of their good prospects. I think they have juice to get one of them. 

Admittedly I knew they didn’t have enough for those two. That was pie in the sky, wishful thinking. The other two options they can do. One older pitcher and one younger guy. 

[Backtobanks]

I wonder if Hoyer would go after Woods-Richardson if he is totally released.  He is not great, but at 25 years old he might be fixable.

[Geographyhater8888]

17 hours ago, Jason Ross said:

The Cubs don't have the juice to get Detmers and Soriano. They'd have to unload most of their good prospects. I think they have juice to get one of them. 

 

What would Detmers cost? The Angels are primitive and wouldn’t trade Ohtani at the trade deadline during his walk year, multiple games out of a wild card so it’s assuming a lot that they’d even shop him unless the asking price is outrageous

Edited 19 hours ago by Geographyhater8888

[Jason Ross]

22 minutes ago, Geographyhater8888 said:

What would Detmers cost? The Angels are primitive and wouldn’t trade Ohtani at the trade deadline during his walk year, multiple games out of a wild card so it’s assuming a lot that they’d even shop him unless the asking price is outrageous.

I think it's best practice to not compare anything (contracts, how a team operates, etc) to Shohei Ohtani when possible. Ohtani is a unicorn both from a marketing standpoint and from a player standpoint. Organizations treat him like a unicorn. The Angels were in advanced talks just two years ago with the Cubs in July over Logan O'Hoppe who they controlled for years, so the team isn't immune to considering moving a controlled asset. 

What would he cost? A lot. He's a 3+ year controlled pitcher. I'm not going to speculate on the cost beyond "a lot" because it's usually fruitless to just throw names out. What we do know about the Angels is this: they really like prospects and players who are near MLB ready. The Cubs have Matt Shaw (in the MLB), Pedro Ramirez (in the MLB), Kevin Alcantara (basically in the MLB) and Moises Ballesteros (basically in the MLB). I'm not saying all of those names are available, but presumably, the two would match up well if most of those players were on the table.

[Geographyhater8888]

13 minutes ago, Jason Ross said:

I think it's best practice to not compare anything (contracts, how a team operates, etc) to Shohei Ohtani. Ohtani is a unicorn. Organizations treat them like unicorns. The Angels were in advanced talks just two years ago with the Cubs in July over Logan O'Hoppe who they controlled for years, so the team isn't immune to considering moving a controlled asset. 

What would he cost? A lot. He's a 3+ year controlled pitcher. I'm not going to speculate on the cost beyond "a lot" because it's usually fruitless to just throw names out. What we do know about the Angels is this: they really like prospects and players who are near MLB ready. The Cubs have Matt Shaw (in the MLB), Pedro Ramirez (in the MLB), Kevin Alcantara (basically in the MLB) and Moises Ballesteros (basically in the MLB). I'm not saying all of those names are available, but presumably, the two would match up well if most of those players were on the table.

 

Would they at all bite on Ben Brown, allowing you to keep Shaw and Mo while discarding Alcantara and Ramirez or is Brown’s injury too risky in the eyes of other teams? 

Edited 19 hours ago by Geographyhater8888

[Jason Ross]

10 minutes ago, Geographyhater8888 said:

 

Would they at all bite on Ben Brown, allowing you to keep Shaw and Mo while discarding Alcantara and Ramirez or is Brown’s injury too risky in the eyes of other teams? 

Why are the Cubs, a team who needs pitching, offering MLB ready pitching?

[Geographyhater8888]

2 minutes ago, Jason Ross said:

Why are the Cubs, a team who needs pitching, offering MLB ready pitching?

Because he might not pitch again this year. For a guy like Detmers it wouldn’t cost an already depleted farm system with corner outfield positions and a DH spot to fill. Mo and Shaw are can fill 2 immediate needs. 

Edited 18 hours ago by Geographyhater8888

[Jason Ross]

2 minutes ago, Geographyhater8888 said:

Because he might not pitch again this year. For a guy like Detmers it wouldn’t cost an already depleted farm system with corner outfield positions and a DH spot to fill. 

Is the world ending in November 2026? Because if not, the Cubs need pitchers next year, too. Matthew Boyd, Shota Imanaga, Jameson Taillon are all FA's. Cade Horton will not be a factor in 2027, who knows about Justin Steele...

You don't just trade Ben Brown because "maybe" he won't be back this year. No, the Cubs are not offering MLB ready P's.

Also important to note, according to the team, they better diagnosed his neck injury than they did in 2024. 

[Geographyhater8888]

5 minutes ago, Jason Ross said:

Is the world ending in November 2026? Because if not, the Cubs need pitchers next year, too. Matthew Boyd, Shota Imanaga, Jameson Taillon are all FA's. Cade Horton will not be a factor in 2027, who knows about Justin Steele...

You don't just trade Ben Brown because "maybe" he won't be back this year. No, the Cubs are not offering MLB ready P's.

They’ll also have over $100 million coming off the books. Some of those spots can be filled in free agency like Peralta. Reid Detmers is one of the best in baseball. I’m only throwing it out there. Trading Shaw hurts the team this year and the future and it won’t be a 1:1 swap.

Edited 18 hours ago by Geographyhater8888

[Rcal10]

28 minutes ago, Jason Ross said:

I think it's best practice to not compare anything (contracts, how a team operates, etc) to Shohei Ohtani when possible. Ohtani is a unicorn both from a marketing standpoint and from a player standpoint. Organizations treat him like a unicorn. The Angels were in advanced talks just two years ago with the Cubs in July over Logan O'Hoppe who they controlled for years, so the team isn't immune to considering moving a controlled asset. 

What would he cost? A lot. He's a 3+ year controlled pitcher. I'm not going to speculate on the cost beyond "a lot" because it's usually fruitless to just throw names out. What we do know about the Angels is this: they really like prospects and players who are near MLB ready. The Cubs have Matt Shaw (in the MLB), Pedro Ramirez (in the MLB), Kevin Alcantara (basically in the MLB) and Moises Ballesteros (basically in the MLB). I'm not saying all of those names are available, but presumably, the two would match up well if most of those players were on the table.

Would taking Kikuchi lower the cost? He makes over $22M a year. If the Cubs take his entire contract would that help? I feel Shaw AND Ballesteros is an overpay, but really IDK.🤷

[Jason Ross]

2 minutes ago, Geographyhater8888 said:

They’ll also have over $100 million coming off the books. Some of those spots can be filled in free agency. Reid Detmers is one of the best in baseball. I’m only throwing it out there. Trading Shaw hurts the team this year and the future. And it won’t be a 1:1 swap.

You're twisting yourself into a pretzel to justify this. The reason you trade for controlled pitching as opposed to a pending FA to to stack for next year. By trading Ben Brown because, again maybe he doesn't come back this year you solve nothing for 2027. 

Yes, the Cubs have $100m to solve issues next year. But if you trade Ben Brown out for Reid Detmers, you still need two SP's, and two OF'ers next year. And you're stuck still with Matt Shaw, Pedro Ramirez, Kevin Alcantara and Moises Ballesteros who occupy a lot of the same territory. 

What do you think is easier to solve? A 10th or 11th man on the bench (what Shaw and Ramirez are being asked to do)? Or a SP?

[Rcal10]

3 minutes ago, Geographyhater8888 said:

They’ll also have over $100 million coming off the books. Some of those spots can be filled in free agency. Reid Detmers is one of the best in baseball. I’m only throwing it out there. Trading Shaw hurts the team this year and the future. And it won’t be a 1:1 swap.

It won’t be because the Cubs have a greater urgency. But in reality 5 years of Shaw is very valuable. 

[Jason Ross]

6 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

Would taking Kikuchi lower the cost? He makes over $22M a year. If the Cubs take his entire contract would that help? I feel Shaw AND Ballesteros is an overpay, but really IDK.🤷

Kikuchi kind of sucks. No. He's also hurt.

The answer to "what should the Cubs trade to get pitching" is a simple one: you trade from your depth of MLB-ready prospects. 

[Geographyhater8888]

15 minutes ago, Jason Ross said:

You're twisting yourself into a pretzel to justify this. The reason you trade for controlled pitching as opposed to a pending FA to to stack for next year. By trading Ben Brown because, again maybe he doesn't come back this year you solve nothing for 2027. 

Yes, the Cubs have $100m to solve issues next year. But if you trade Ben Brown out for Reid Detmers, you still need two SP's, and two OF'ers next year. And you're stuck still with Matt Shaw, Pedro Ramirez, Kevin Alcantara and Moises Ballesteros who occupy a lot of the same territory. 

What do you think is easier to solve? A 10th or 11th man on the bench (what Shaw and Ramirez are being asked to do)? Or a SP?

Shaw is part of the everyday lineup for the most part. If you think the Angels would accept Alcantara and Shaw for Detmers then you don’t hesitate to make the trade. They probably won’t. By trading for Detmers you swap one rotation spot for another with an upgrade while keeping a couple of every day bats. Thats more money to be spent on pitching. It’s an alternative to trading away a bulk of position players with a 31 YO outfielders and a DH spot with uncertainty. It’s an alternative.

The flip side to being short on arms is that there’s absolutely no need to upgrade anywhere in the lineup. 

 

Edited 18 hours ago by Geographyhater8888

[Jason Ross]

7 minutes ago, Geographyhater8888 said:

Shaw is part of the everyday lineup for the most part. If you think the Angels would accept Alcantara and Shaw for Detmers then you don’t hesitate to make the trade. They probably won’t. By trading for Detmers you swap one rotation spot for another with an upgrade while keeping a couple of every day bats. Thats more money to be spent on pitching. It’s an alternative to trading away a bulk of position players with a 31 YO outfielders and a DH spot with uncertainty. It’s an alternative.

The flip side to being short on arms is that there’s absolutely no need to upgrade anywhere in the lineup. 

 

It's fruitless to worry about specific names. I said that in my initial post. I'm not really interested in that. I gave you some names that, in theory, should interest a team who prefers near-MLB ready talent.

If you want Detmers it's going to hurt. You should be prepared to see the list of names in the event they make that trade an go "ouch, that's a lot". No the Cubs aren't trading from their thin MLB pitching depth. They will trade from their position player prospect depth. It's not that deep. 

To put it another way: do you see how you're trying to turn this into a trade that doesn't hurt the Cubs as much? That's not going to be how this would go down.

And while it's true that Shaw is playing often right now, Pedro Ramirez and Matt Shaw are occupying the same general spot. They're primary infielders, with primary infield bats who are capable of playing corner OF. They don't need both to function. Whether it's a trade in July or a trade in the winter, the Cubs cannot just keep taking guys who really aren't corner OF'ers and stick them out there; they can pick one of them but they don't need two of those. Especially with Rojas who's likely nearing a trip to Iowa and will be another player in the same situation, bringing you number to three. It's entirely more likely that the Cubs cash in on that depth than trading a pitcher.

[Rcal10]

2 minutes ago, Jason Ross said:

It's fruitless to worry about specific names. I said that in my initial post. I'm not really interested in that. I gave you some names that, in theory, should interest a team who prefers near-MLB ready talent.

If you want Detmers it's going to hurt. You should be prepared to see the list of names in the event they make that trade an go "ouch, that's a lot". No the Cubs aren't trading from their thin MLB pitching depth. They will trade from their position player prospect depth. It's not that deep. 

To put it another way: do you see how you're trying to turn this into a trade that doesn't hurt the Cubs as much? That's not going to be how this would go down.

Honestly, for a controlled pitcher of several years, I am not too concerned about losing prospects. Sometimes you have to do what it takes. Shaw would hurt this year, but from what we have seen from Ramirez, he might fill in just as well. Conforto could play the outfield if they need that from time to time. Or they can bring up Alcantara. 

[Geographyhater8888]

7 minutes ago, Jason Ross said:

It's fruitless to worry about specific names. I said that in my initial post. I'm not really interested in that. I gave you some names that, in theory, should interest a team who prefers near-MLB ready talent.

If you want Detmers it's going to hurt. You should be prepared to see the list of names in the event they make that trade an go "ouch, that's a lot". No the Cubs aren't trading from their thin MLB pitching depth. They will trade from their position player prospect depth. It's not that deep. 

You asked me why they wound theoretically trade. Brown and I gave you my answer, regardless of whether of not Jed would. Trading for Detmers is going to hurt no matter what names they ask for and especially if they want MLB ready.

Edited 18 hours ago by Geographyhater8888

[Jason Ross]

1 minute ago, Geographyhater8888 said:

You asked me why they wound theoretically trade. Brown and I gave you my answer, regardless of whether of not Jed would. Trading for Detmers is going to hurt no matter what names they ask for and especially if they want MLB ready.

Of course. But you haven't given any reason other than "Ben Brown might not pitch in 2026" as a justification why they would trade him. He's controlled util 2031, he's 26, he's been their best pitcher this year, and it doesn't solve a single issue post-2026 by trading Ben Brown versus moving someone from your pile of MLB-ready prospects that don't have clear pathways to their best utilization. 

It just doesn't make sense. I think it's pretty safe to take the idea of "would the Cubs trade Ben Brown for a SP?" and put it in the "incredibly unlikely" bucket. "Never say never" in baseball, but it's almost assuredly not going to happen.

[Jason Ross]

5 minutes ago, Rcal10 said:

Honestly, for a controlled pitcher of several years, I am not too concerned about losing prospects. Sometimes you have to do what it takes. Shaw would hurt this year, but from what we have seen from Ramirez, he might fill in just as well. Conforto could play the outfield if they need that from time to time. Or they can bring up Alcantara. 

Yes. I'm fine trading from the young position player pool to get a controlled SP. Shaw, Rojas, Ramirez, Alcantara, Ballesteros, Kepley...this is a pool of players the Cubs can thin and still have young players you're excited about (doesn't even include Hartshorn and Conrad) behind them to solve the biggest organizational need. Many of those players overlap in how the team would use them. 

Maybe it's not the Angels, maybe it's someone else, but I do think the Cubs are in a place to go get another controlled SP. It would mean you're looking at something around Brown, Steele, new SP, Cabrera, Rea/Assad next year (assuming health) with Wiggins in the wings for 2027, as well.

[Rcal10]

2 minutes ago, Jason Ross said:

Of course. But you haven't given any reason other than "Ben Brown might not pitch in 2026" as a justification why they would trade him. He's controlled util 2031, he's 26, he's been their best pitcher this year, and it doesn't solve a single issue post-2026 by trading Ben Brown versus moving someone from your pile of MLB-ready prospects that don't have clear pathways to their best utilization. 

It just doesn't make sense. I think it's pretty safe to take the idea of "would the Cubs trade Ben Brown for a SP?" and put it in the "incredibly unlikely" bucket. "Never say never" in baseball, but it's almost assuredly not going to happen.

I would agree. Brown isn’t going anywhere. They need to add a controlled pitcher this deadline, but not at the expense of one they already have. A rotation starting with Brown, Detmers or Soriano, Cabrera, and hopefully a healthy Steele is a good start next year. Aim high in free agency, (Peralta) and you have a solid staff. Offer Boyd a QO, if he stays healthy, and maybe he stays too. And maybe Wiggins comes around next year.