One thing that works against Hendry

[Knyption]

This may be the wrong section, but this relates to transactions.

 

Hendry has a track record of making good trades, but also besides Dontrelle Willis, giving the other teams crap in return.

 

This may work against him since other teams may be hip to the idea that Hendry wont give away prospects he knows are REAL major leaguers. (this year see Cedeno)

 

I hope me playing the devils advocate is false, but its just something I thought about a sec ago.

[TripJ]

I don't know if it's fair to say that teams dealing with Hendry have gotten crap in return. Though Choi and Hill haven't been the superstar major leaguers that many of us thought they would be, they have been pretty useful players to their respective teams.

 

Additionally, Cruz and Farnsworth have had success in Atlanta and Detroit respectively, and I would argue that we didn't get much back for those guys.

 

Note - the author of this post does not wish to start or engage in a debate about Cruz/Choi/Hill

 

I'm more of the leaning that other GM's probably regard Hendry as a guy that's actually pretty fair to deal with - it usually appears (from my own observations anyway) that when he trades with someone, everyone walks away from the deal feeling like they got their moneys' worth, so to speak.

Edited July 1, 2005 by TripJ

[JC]

Hendry has wisely taken advantage of salary dump and player dump (Nomar) situations.

 

But, to suggest that he is hoodwinking anyone is absurd. The teams that are being traded with have their own responsibility for scouting and agreeing to the selected players. Hendry isn't playing any slight of hand, and I would doubt he would tell you differently. The responsibility of getting value in return is a function of the opposing team moreso than Hendry's manipulation.

[Knyption]

I agree with what your saying but still, i think its something that lingers on some GM's minds. Especially with super studs (see trade to pittsburg)

[johnnyba99]

If this were the case, I don't think anybody would trade with Atlanta. Schuerholtz almost always seems to come out on the good side of trades. I don't know every trade he has made for Atlanta, but the ones that come right to mind wound up in his favor.

[Cubfanintheknow]

When Jim Hendry traded for Aramis Ramirez and Kenny Lofton, Bobby Hill was on a list of players the Cubs submitted to the Pirates. Dave Littlefield had a choice of 3-5 players to select from and he chose Hill. The names of the others were not disclosed. This is a typical process in most trades. SO it's up to the other team to do their homework. Some do (the Marlins and Dontrelle Willis), other don't (also backing away from the whole Choi/Cruz/Hill debate).

[Knyption]

I know, but if a GM has no confidence in his scouts, he is up a creek when dealing with Hendry.

 

Hendry is great at trades, I wonder what will happen this year

[dime]

I agree that Hendry's rep makes it tougher for him to get a good deal; other GMs are wary of trading with him because Jim knows what he's doing.

 

He probably works harder than anyone else to try and make up for it; the Nomar deal last year was about 98% hendry, and I'm still amazed he pulled it off.

[Tedward]

If this were the case, I don't think anybody would trade with Atlanta. Schuerholtz almost always seems to come out on the good side of trades. I don't know every trade he has made for Atlanta, but the ones that come right to mind wound up in his favor.

 

Yep. I'd never make a trade with Scheurholtz that involves pitching. He always seems to know which pitchers to acquire, and which pitchers to trade.

[Knyption]

Yep so my final point for this post is many time we want Hendry to make a quick trade. But as his rep precedes him its always close to the deadline.

 

Too much analysis by other gm, this is hendrys strong point.

[Guest]

If this were the case, I don't think anybody would trade with Atlanta. Schuerholtz almost always seems to come out on the good side of trades. I don't know every trade he has made for Atlanta, but the ones that come right to mind wound up in his favor.

 

Yep. I'd never make a trade with Scheurholtz that involves pitching. He always seems to know which pitchers to acquire, and which pitchers to trade.

Exhibit A: Juan Cruz and Andy Pratt.

[reggiemiller rules]

the cardinals seemed to do allright trading with scherholtz, getting marquis, ray king, and wainright for jd drew.

[bannor10]

The Money Ball book basically ripped other GMs (ha Kenny Williams) and people still deal with Billy Bean.....That said, Pittsburg might think twice about dealing with Hendry............

[biittner77]

If this were the case, I don't think anybody would trade with Atlanta. Schuerholtz almost always seems to come out on the good side of trades. I don't know every trade he has made for Atlanta, but the ones that come right to mind wound up in his favor.

 

Yep. I'd never make a trade with Scheurholtz that involves pitching. He always seems to know which pitchers to acquire, and which pitchers to trade.

 

Did he trade for Kolb or sign him as a FA?

That would be the exception though. I seem to remember a quote from an anonymous GM- "If the Barves come to you to trade one of their pitchers, run"

 

I don't believe GMs are wary of trading with Hnedry. The one sided trades he's made have been salary dumps. Most of the rest have been even.

[Tedward]

Did he trade for Kolb or sign him as a FA?

That would be the exception though. I seem to remember a quote from an anonymous GM- "If the Barves come to you to trade one of their pitchers, run"

 

I don't believe GMs are wary of trading with Hnedry. The one sided trades he's made have been salary dumps. Most of the rest have been even.

 

He traded Capellan, one of his top young minor league arms for Kolb.

[Elrhino]

I don't know if it's fair to say that teams dealing with Hendry have gotten crap in return. Though Choi and Hill haven't been the superstar major leaguers that many of us thought they would be, they have been pretty useful players to their respective teams.

 

Choi might be a servicable platoon player.

 

Bobby Hill is crap.

[Outshined_One]

Did he trade for Kolb or sign him as a FA?

That would be the exception though. I seem to remember a quote from an anonymous GM- "If the Barves come to you to trade one of their pitchers, run"

 

I don't believe GMs are wary of trading with Hnedry. The one sided trades he's made have been salary dumps. Most of the rest have been even.

 

He traded Capellan, one of his top young minor league arms for Kolb.

 

Capellan's numbers for the Nashville Sounds (AAA):

 

19 G, 12 GS, 4-2, 4 SV, 70.1 IP, 4.35 ERA, 36 R, 34 ER, 2 HR, 71 H, 54/32 K/BB

 

No, I don't have his splits from starting and relief work. Even still, his numbers don't seem to indicate he's back among the top pitching prospects in the game.

 

Juan Cruz also hasn't been doing well:

 

21 G, 0-2, 23.1 IP, 8.49 ERA, 28 R, 22 ER, 4 HR, 29 H, 27/19 K/BB

 

There's also the matter of Dan Meyer. Ugh.

[Outshined_One]

As for Hendry, there's an interesting perspective you can take on all of this.

 

As much as some people may dislike it, it may behoove some Cubs fans to hope that former Cubs prospects like John Garland and Dontrelle Willis do really well. Willis especially, since he'd likely win the Cy Young if the season ended today. There are plenty of guys people have regretted letting go in the past, especially with Choi, Harris, and Bellhorn. But, their success helps Jim Hendry in his trading quite a bit.

 

Think of this from the perspective of, say, Cincy's GM, Dan O'Brien. The Reds are a pitching starved team, both in the majors and in their system. You don't think they'd want a Dontrelle Willis or a John Garland from the Cubs? Their scouts may have looked at the Cubs' system and they think that some one like Carlos Marmol or Renyel Pinto could come in and provide the Reds with the same impact that the players I've mentioned above have. You look at the systems who have produced impact players who have flourished both with that team and elsewhere.

 

It's not like other teams where they've unloaded overhyped players onto other teams for gold. You'd like to see that, but getting that reputation as a GM is not the best of things. Being able to broker trades that end up with both teams getting equal value in the end is a good rep to have, imo.

[Knyption]

Which is exxactly the rep hendry dont have.

[YearofDaCubs]

The fact is Hendry has never made the right moves during the offseason where it counts.

[Fred Hornkohl]

The fact is Hendry has never made the right moves during the offseason where it counts.

 

Tell me again..... which one of these guys was the right move this past off season ???

 

06/29      AB   R   H  2B  3B  HR  TB RBI  BB  SO  SB  CS     BA    OBP    SLG    OBP
Alou      221  39  72   8   0  12 116  38  34  16   2   0  0.326  0.417  0.525  0.942
Drew      243  44  68  12   1  12 118  32  49  49   1   1  0.280  0.405  0.486  0.890
Burnitz   290  46  80  17   2  13 140  43  26  52   4   3  0.276  0.332  0.483  0.815
Beltran   272  32  71  17   1   9 117  38  22  51   1   2  0.261  0.315  0.430  0.746
Sosa      226  25  53  10   1   9  92  26  22  45   1   0  0.235  0.306  0.407  0.713
Huff      274  26  69  11   2   5  99  38  25  48   8   4  0.252  0.319  0.361  0.681
Ordonez    10   1   0   0   0   0   0   0   1   3   0   0  0.000  0.091  0.000  0.091

[TXCubsFan]

As for Hendry, there's an interesting perspective you can take on all of this.

 

As much as some people may dislike it, it may behoove some Cubs fans to hope that former Cubs prospects like John Garland and Dontrelle Willis do really well. Willis especially, since he'd likely win the Cy Young if the season ended today. There are plenty of guys people have regretted letting go in the past, especially with Choi, Harris, and Bellhorn. But, their success helps Jim Hendry in his trading quite a bit.

 

Think of this from the perspective of, say, Cincy's GM, Dan O'Brien. The Reds are a pitching starved team, both in the majors and in their system. You don't think they'd want a Dontrelle Willis or a John Garland from the Cubs? Their scouts may have looked at the Cubs' system and they think that some one like Carlos Marmol or Renyel Pinto could come in and provide the Reds with the same impact that the players I've mentioned above have. You look at the systems who have produced impact players who have flourished both with that team and elsewhere.

 

It's not like other teams where they've unloaded overhyped players onto other teams for gold. You'd like to see that, but getting that reputation as a GM is not the best of things. Being able to broker trades that end up with both teams getting equal value in the end is a good rep to have, imo.

 

Because Florida got value (Willis) for value (Clement), Florida turned to the Cubs when they had to deal Derrick Lee in a hurry. Fair trades lead to more trades that can help both teams.

[YearofDaCubs]

The fact is Hendry has never made the right moves during the offseason where it counts.

 

Tell me again..... which one of these guys was the right move this past off season ???

 

06/29      AB   R   H  2B  3B  HR  TB RBI  BB  SO  SB  CS     BA    OBP    SLG    OBP
Alou      221  39  72   8   0  12 116  38  34  16   2   0  0.326  0.417  0.525  0.942
Drew      243  44  68  12   1  12 118  32  49  49   1   1  0.280  0.405  0.486  0.890
Burnitz   290  46  80  17   2  13 140  43  26  52   4   3  0.276  0.332  0.483  0.815
Beltran   272  32  71  17   1   9 117  38  22  51   1   2  0.261  0.315  0.430  0.746
Sosa      226  25  53  10   1   9  92  26  22  45   1   0  0.235  0.306  0.407  0.713
Huff      274  26  69  11   2   5  99  38  25  48   8   4  0.252  0.319  0.361  0.681
Ordonez    10   1   0   0   0   0   0   0   1   3   0   0  0.000  0.091  0.000  0.091

ANy of those guys in LF would've been helping us right now.

[LeftCoastCubFan]

The fact is Hendry has never made the right moves during the offseason where it counts.

It’s always easy to second guess. Maybe you can post the details in rants. I know things haven’t gone as well as expected, but come on now. Yes the acquisitions of Grudz/Karros, Barrett, Lee, Walker, Clement, Maddux, Hawkins, Remlinger, Rusch, Dempster, etc were all the wrong moves. Yes a few didn’t work out, but they made sense at the time.

 

After 2002 our expectations were rising because of the infusion of studs from the farm system. Well they didn’t develop. Do you believe we would be a better team with Cruz, Brownlie, and Guzman in the rotation; Choi at first; Hill at second, Kelton at third, Dubois in left full time, and a few other prospects that have fallen out of favor? Some may be good players in the future, but they have not been very successful over the last few years. The team has been winning despite this. That is a credit to Hendry, not a detriment.