Dusty Bad Managerial Moves Thread

[CubsaredaChamps]

Then how did the Cubs get to the NLCS in 03'?

 

a strong year by both Wood and Prior, and decent HR power 2-5.

 

Your not giving any credit to Dusty for 03'?

 

Sure he gets some credit. He also gets the blame for last years train wreck and this years start.

[CoolHandLuke]

Then how did the Cubs get to the NLCS in 03'?

 

a strong year by both Wood and Prior, and decent HR power 2-5.

 

Your not giving any credit to Dusty for 03'?

 

magic dust?

[TruffleShuffle]

Alright, this is just my take on the blowup tonight:

 

The game was blown by the bullpen. All 25 players are supposed to be able to come into tough situations and succeed. Z put Rem in a bad situation, Rem faltered. Rem has to face lefties sometimes people - he's one of our main relievers and sure is paid like one.

 

Rem didn't do well after letting the game get tied. Wuertz could have been used better, but Wuertz is not Gagne. Wuertz is so popular on this board for the same reason the backup QB is the most popular QB in Chicago. I like Wuertz, however. Not a great use there.

 

Fox is in, tough situation. Gets an out, runners on 2nd on 3rd, Hill up, Ross, player of the game 3 for 3, on fire, is behind him. As Brenly said you pick your poison, 50/50 either way. Fox gave up the double, game over. Fox needs to be able to get Hill out in that situation. Fox was our last line of defense and he let everybody home.

 

As far as Macias, LOL, he freakin threw the guy out at home so how can you really complain? Even if he didn't get it hit (no surprise here) he still prevented a run, and that's not easy. LOL at Macias.

 

I'm sure some people will blame Dusty for this. Why? Cuz it's easy. But his pitchers - Z, Rem, Fox - didn't do their job and put him in tough situations that no mangerial expertise gets you out of. What gets you out? Not getting in these situations to begin with. If he walks Hill to set up the DP and Ross gets a hit, everyone says "Ross was the player of the game, why did you let him beat you?" Dammned if you do, damned if you don't in that stituation.

 

To me the blame goes squarely on the pen and on Z for not pitching a great game. The only questionable call by Dusty is the use of Wuertz and Macias, the latter which I cannot understand, but sure worked out pretty good. Everyone's pen blows it, and maybe ours will gel, but I'd sure like to see a bonafide closer or dare I say Farnsesque pitcher by the trade dealine....

 

Yes, this brings up a good point. These are Wuertz's minor league stats. Note the 4.31 ERA, the 1.39 WHIP and the 7 K/9 IP. Those aren't exactly stellar numbers. Why do people have this infatuation with the guy like he's the best reliever we have? Yes, he pitched very well last year for Iowa as the closer, in his third full year in that league. His stuff isn't anything special, and he doesn't look like much more than an average bullpen arm.

 

So in the bullpen we have Hawkins, who is very good as a setup man but mediocre as a closer. Wuertz, already I've talked about him. Fox can be pretty good when he's healthy, but who knows what he's got left after a few arm surgeries. Remlinger is only slightly above average at this point in his career. Bartosh is just a mediocre lefty specialist. Rusch is OK as well. That's not a good bullpen at all, it's a bunch of guys who are decent. A team with one of the top payrolls in the league should expect better than a bunch of OK guys.

[TrueBlueCubFan]

Then how did the Cubs get to the NLCS in 03'?

 

a strong year by both Wood and Prior, and decent HR power 2-5.

 

Your not giving any credit to Dusty for 03'?

 

Sure he gets some credit. He also gets the blame for last years train wreck and this years start.

that's a fair assesment.

[CubsaredaChamps]

Dusty gets 80% of the blame but Nomar and Aramis have been brutal. They need to start earning those checks. Edited April 16, 2005 by CubsaredaChamps

[ZZ Thorn]

Dusty could have walked Hill in that situation in the 8th and it came back to bite him. Baseball 101 is that you set up the DP in that situation, especially with a right handed hitter on deck. That was a brutal move by Baker. It's Baker's job to put the players in the best position to win and he does not do it.

 

So what does the book say when Hill is up, first base is open, but the guy behind him had gone 3 for 3 with 2 home runs off your current ace thus far? Your argument is just as vaild as the argument for not letting that guy beat you, again! So how can you really fault Dusty when you're dammed if you do and dammed if you don't.

 

When you are thus dammed, you can only rely on your players, and Dusty's BP totally blew it for him tonight. They let in 4 runs in a one run game!

 

Macias and Perez's success I find funny. I say keep Perez, but what is Macias? Our new defensive replacement? He played a very solid 3rd the other day, a great outfield assist...too bad he's 1 for 12. It really is Hendry's fault he's on the team.

[CoolHandLuke]

Dusty could have walked Hill in that situation in the 8th and it came back to bite him. Baseball 101 is that you set up the DP in that situation, especially with a right handed hitter on deck. That was a brutal move by Baker. It's Baker's job to put the players in the best position to win and he does not do it.

 

So what does the book say when Hill is up, first base is open, but the guy behind him had gone 3 for 3 with 2 home runs off your current ace thus far? Your argument is just as vaild as the argument for not letting that guy beat you, again! So how can you really fault Dusty when you're dammed if you do and dammed if you don't.

 

When you are thus dammed, you can only rely on your players, and Dusty's BP totally blew it for him tonight. They let in 4 runs in a one run game!

 

Macias and Perez's success I find funny. I say keep Perez, but what is Macias? Our new defensive replacement? He played a very solid 3rd the other day, a great outfield assist...too bad he's 1 for 12. It really is Hendry's fault he's on the team.

 

totally agree with you there

[CubsaredaChamps]

Dusty could have walked Hill in that situation in the 8th and it came back to bite him. Baseball 101 is that you set up the DP in that situation, especially with a right handed hitter on deck. That was a brutal move by Baker. It's Baker's job to put the players in the best position to win and he does not do it.

 

So what does the book say when Hill is up, first base is open, but the guy behind him had gone 3 for 3 with 2 home runs off your current ace thus far? Your argument is just as vaild as the argument for not letting that guy beat you, again! So how can you really fault Dusty when you're dammed if you do and dammed if you don't.

 

When you are thus dammed, you can only rely on your players, and Dusty's BP totally blew it for him tonight. They let in 4 runs in a one run game!

 

Macias and Perez's success I find funny. I say keep Perez, but what is Macias? Our new defensive replacement? He played a very solid 3rd the other day, a great outfield assist...too bad he's 1 for 12. It really is Hendry's fault he's on the team.

 

IMO you play the percentages in that situation. You need a DP there.

[ZZ Thorn]

IMO, our Achilles' heel is our BP. Our loss of Sosa and Alou, loss of Clement, Dusty - all these aren't as big a problem as our BP. We really need a bonafide closer, which'll slot everyone done and make us solid.

 

In the Wuertz for closer thread it was posted that the Cubs are, they guess, waiting to trade for a closer and that they have plenty of financial flexibility to pick one up. They're going to wait until some teams fall out of contention, then the Cubs swoop in.

 

I sure hope that works out. With no closer, even if we make the playoffs, I doubt we can go very far unless our Big 3 are totally lights out.

[TrueBlueCubFan]

Dusty gets 80% of the blame but Nomar and Aramis has been brutal. They need to start earning those checks.

They'll come around, they are too good not to.

[CubsaredaChamps]

Dusty gets 80% of the blame but Nomar and Aramis has been brutal. They need to start earning those checks.

They'll come around, they are too good not to.

 

I agree.

[minnesotacubsfan]

Dusty gets 80% of the blame but Nomar and Aramis has been brutal. They need to start earning those checks.

They'll come around, they are too good not to.

 

God I hope.

 

 

I am miserable withthem hitting so lousy

[frostwyrm]

Dusty could have walked Hill in that situation in the 8th and it came back to bite him. Baseball 101 is that you set up the DP in that situation, especially with a right handed hitter on deck. That was a brutal move by Baker. It's Baker's job to put the players in the best position to win and he does not do it.

 

So what does the book say when Hill is up, first base is open, but the guy behind him had gone 3 for 3 with 2 home runs off your current ace thus far? Your argument is just as vaild as the argument for not letting that guy beat you, again! So how can you really fault Dusty when you're dammed if you do and dammed if you don't.

 

When you are thus dammed, you can only rely on your players, and Dusty's BP totally blew it for him tonight. They let in 4 runs in a one run game!

Macias and Perez's success I find funny. I say keep Perez, but what is Macias? Our new defensive replacement? He played a very solid 3rd the other day, a great outfield assist...too bad he's 1 for 12. It really is Hendry's fault he's on the team.

 

And if those relievers had pitched well we'd get to hear you tell us about Dusty "pulling the right strings". Of course when they play poorly it's always "hey, what could Dusty do? The players blew it." It's so predictable.

[CubsaredaChamps]

Dusty could have walked Hill in that situation in the 8th and it came back to bite him. Baseball 101 is that you set up the DP in that situation, especially with a right handed hitter on deck. That was a brutal move by Baker. It's Baker's job to put the players in the best position to win and he does not do it.

 

So what does the book say when Hill is up, first base is open, but the guy behind him had gone 3 for 3 with 2 home runs off your current ace thus far? Your argument is just as vaild as the argument for not letting that guy beat you, again! So how can you really fault Dusty when you're dammed if you do and dammed if you don't.

 

When you are thus dammed, you can only rely on your players, and Dusty's BP totally blew it for him tonight. They let in 4 runs in a one run game!

Macias and Perez's success I find funny. I say keep Perez, but what is Macias? Our new defensive replacement? He played a very solid 3rd the other day, a great outfield assist...too bad he's 1 for 12. It really is Hendry's fault he's on the team.

 

And if those relievers had pitched well we'd get to hear you tell us about Dusty "pulling the right strings". Of course when they play poorly it's always "hey, what could Dusty do? The players blew it." It's so predictable.

 

Frost, that picture of Macias almost made me wizz my pants. That's too funny.

[minnesotacubsfan]

I will say this, IF and WHEN this team makes it to the playoffs, I will give Dusty his due. 1 of 2 things will have to happen. Either somehow Macias and Perez turn into all stars or Dusty starts thinking about his moves. Time will tell.

 

Tomorrow is another day, another game.

 

go cubs....

[ZZ Thorn]

And if those relievers had pitched well we'd get to hear you tell us about Dusty "pulling the right strings". Of course when they play poorly it's always "hey, what could Dusty do? The players blew it." It's so predictable.

 

If Remmy came in and shut them down I wouldn't give Dusty the credit - he's paid like a top reliever, he's supposed to do that regularly. I really wouldn't have been crowing about Dusty 'pulling the right string' there. Or if Fox had done well. Those are basic situations for those guys - putting them in is like batting ARam 4th. It's standard operating procedure - not pulling a string by Dusty.

 

He sure pulled the right string with putting Macias in defensively, much to everyone's surprise. Burnitz really is an upgrade from Sammy defensively - they're both lefties, I didn't get that move but it worked out pretty well. The only thing Dusty must've been thinking was that Burnitz wasn't going to do well making contact against Mesa.

 

And the Busters aren't predictable? I may be somewhat predictable, but at least I'm objective.

Edited April 16, 2005 by ZZ Thorn

[CaliforniaRaisin]

Yes, this brings up a good point. These are Wuertz's minor league stats. Note the 4.31 ERA, the 1.39 WHIP and the 7 K/9 IP. Those aren't exactly stellar numbers. Why do people have this infatuation with the guy like he's the best reliever we have? Yes, he pitched very well last year for Iowa as the closer, in his third full year in that league. His stuff isn't anything special, and he doesn't look like much more than an average bullpen arm.

 

So in the bullpen we have Hawkins, who is very good as a setup man but mediocre as a closer. Wuertz, already I've talked about him. Fox can be pretty good when he's healthy, but who knows what he's got left after a few arm surgeries. Remlinger is only slightly above average at this point in his career. Bartosh is just a mediocre lefty specialist. Rusch is OK as well. That's not a good bullpen at all, it's a bunch of guys who are decent. A team with one of the top payrolls in the league should expect better than a bunch of OK guys.

 

Look at Wuertz's numbers as a reliever only in the minors, they are a better indicator of how he'll do as a major league reliever. As a reliever, he was able to throw his fastball harder, since he was going shorter stints. This allowed him to be more effective. He has also improved his changeup for this season. He isn't our best reliever (LaTroy is), but Wuertz has been one of the most effective (and still is).

[CoolHandLuke]

Alright, this is just my take on the blowup tonight:

 

The game was blown by the bullpen. All 25 players are supposed to be able to come into tough situations and succeed. Z put Rem in a bad situation, Rem faltered. Rem has to face lefties sometimes people - he's one of our main relievers and sure is paid like one.

 

Rem didn't do well after letting the game get tied. Wuertz could have been used better, but Wuertz is not Gagne. Wuertz is so popular on this board for the same reason the backup QB is the most popular QB in Chicago. I like Wuertz, however. Not a great use there.

 

Fox is in, tough situation. Gets an out, runners on 2nd on 3rd, Hill up, Ross, player of the game 3 for 3, on fire, is behind him. As Brenly said you pick your poison, 50/50 either way. Fox gave up the double, game over. Fox needs to be able to get Hill out in that situation. Fox was our last line of defense and he let everybody home.

 

As far as Macias, LOL, he freakin threw the guy out at home so how can you really complain? Even if he didn't get it hit (no surprise here) he still prevented a run, and that's not easy. LOL at Macias.

 

I'm sure some people will blame Dusty for this. Why? Cuz it's easy. But his pitchers - Z, Rem, Fox - didn't do their job and put him in tough situations that no mangerial expertise gets you out of. What gets you out? Not getting in these situations to begin with. If he walks Hill to set up the DP and Ross gets a hit, everyone says "Ross was the player of the game, why did you let him beat you?" Dammned if you do, damned if you don't in that stituation.

 

To me the blame goes squarely on the pen and on Z for not pitching a great game. The only questionable call by Dusty is the use of Wuertz and Macias, the latter which I cannot understand, but sure worked out pretty good. Everyone's pen blows it, and maybe ours will gel, but I'd sure like to see a bonafide closer or dare I say Farnsesque pitcher by the trade dealine....

 

Yes, this brings up a good point. These are Wuertz's minor league stats. Note the 4.31 ERA, the 1.39 WHIP and the 7 K/9 IP. Those aren't exactly stellar numbers. Why do people have this infatuation with the guy like he's the best reliever we have? Yes, he pitched very well last year for Iowa as the closer, in his third full year in that league. His stuff isn't anything special, and he doesn't look like much more than an average bullpen arm.

 

So in the bullpen we have Hawkins, who is very good as a setup man but mediocre as a closer. Wuertz, already I've talked about him. Fox can be pretty good when he's healthy, but who knows what he's got left after a few arm surgeries. Remlinger is only slightly above average at this point in his career. Bartosh is just a mediocre lefty specialist. Rusch is OK as well. That's not a good bullpen at all, it's a bunch of guys who are decent. A team with one of the top payrolls in the league should expect better than a bunch of OK guys.

 

your avatar guy is on comedy central right now!

[TruffleShuffle]

Dusty could have walked Hill in that situation in the 8th and it came back to bite him. Baseball 101 is that you set up the DP in that situation, especially with a right handed hitter on deck. That was a brutal move by Baker. It's Baker's job to put the players in the best position to win and he does not do it.

 

So what does the book say when Hill is up, first base is open, but the guy behind him had gone 3 for 3 with 2 home runs off your current ace thus far? Your argument is just as vaild as the argument for not letting that guy beat you, again! So how can you really fault Dusty when you're dammed if you do and dammed if you don't.

 

When you are thus dammed, you can only rely on your players, and Dusty's BP totally blew it for him tonight. They let in 4 runs in a one run game!

Macias and Perez's success I find funny. I say keep Perez, but what is Macias? Our new defensive replacement? He played a very solid 3rd the other day, a great outfield assist...too bad he's 1 for 12. It really is Hendry's fault he's on the team.

 

And if those relievers had pitched well we'd get to hear you tell us about Dusty "pulling the right strings". Of course when they play poorly it's always "hey, what could Dusty do? The players blew it." It's so predictable.

 

I didn't blame Dusty for using Wuertz against Ross, but someone - be it the bench coach, manager, etc - screwed up by not having Ramirez in on the grass. Despite his 2 HRs tonight, Ross is not that good of a hitter and in that spot there should at least be a suspicion that the guy is going to be bunting. To get caught off guard like they did is inexcusable.

[TruffleShuffle]

your avatar guy is on comedy central right now!

 

Thanks for the heads up, my friend, but I've got all his comedy central appearances on tape. The one with the potato bacon bombs I've probably watched 30-40 times.

[AFCubsFan]

Dusty is the greatest managerial mind in the history of baseball!

 

Dusty knows things that no one else knows. Everyone else on the planet can see "stupidity" in most of the moves Dusty makes, but Dusty Baker isn't everyone else. He is the one and only...the alpha and omega. His managing insight tells him that playing Macias is the best play to make. And even though the results are almost always bad, Dusty knows what he is doing. He makes moves that nobody else makes. Why would you hire someone to make the same decisions a majority of sane people would make? Dusty does it his way, and even when the team loses, it's good to know they lost it "the Dusty Way."

 

Thank you Dusty, for saving the Cubs. You are the only worthwhile thing in all of Chicago sports. Sammy was afraid and not worthy to be in your presence. Sure, he helped save baseball and carried the Cubs on his back for years...but apparently he wasn't worthy to hold your toothpick. I know Dusty is the master at creating a positive atmosphere. Somehow, his brilliant mind didn't think Sosa was important enough to work through problems with. I'm sure Dusty made the right call. Dusty is brilliant, after all. He and he alone led the team to the almost World Series in 2003. Forget about Houston choking their season away in the end. Actually, don't forget about that...Dusty orchestrated it. He actually managed the Brewers using his powers of telepathy to make sure they'd win when he wanted them to.

 

Injuries were the downfall of 2004. I know some people would like to blame Dusty for those. Look, if you think the injuries of Prior and Wood were due to Dusty overusing and abusing them in 2003 you're wrong. Sure, you can use things like "numbers" and "historical facts," but what do those prove? Nothing! I know Prior threw 130+ pitches in his last 2 starts of the 2003 regular season, I know he was left in during the blowout against the Braves in the NLDS, but it means nothing. Pitch counts and other statistics are just a bunch of fancy "numbers" designed to bring Dusty down. And don't cry when Zambrano gets injured. I know it's predictable that it will happen given the pattern of his use...but don't blame Dusty. It's not his fault. Blame Sosa, Stone, Chip, the umpires, the fans, the trainer, the media, the GM, Dick Pole, Larry Rothschild, Bob Brenly, Len Kasper, Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, Don Zimmer, Pedro Martinez, Dick Clark, Bin Laden, Paris Hilton, Oliver North, John Shoop, and/or George Bush (Sr and Jr.) Blame anyone but Dusty. Dusty is smart.

[J.R.]

http://www.bleyz.com/cubsfun/images/dusty_dice.jpg

 

:lmao:

[CoolHandLuke]

http://www.bleyz.com/cubsfun/images/dusty_dice.jpg

 

:lmao:

 

I think Dusty's dice are rigged to roll Neif EVERY time.

[imb]

absolutely no reason to double switch with Macias instead of Jason or Hairston. What the hell.

[Tim]

absolutely no reason to double switch with Macias instead of Jason or Hairston. What the hell.

If Fox lets a run score, Dusty doesn't have to pinch hit for him and burn an extra reliever.