Dusty Bad Managerial Moves Thread

[frostwyrm]

Ha ha! Macias and Neifi on the left side of the infield in Game Two! Between the two of them and Blanco, it's good to see we're only going to the plate with 6 hitters (including Prior).

 

](*,)

 

and amazingily enough the Cubs have scored 7 runs by the 3rd inning. Lets try to make sure that the moves are poor before we discount them

Hindsight is 20-20. Benching A-Ram, Barrett, and Nomar for Prior's first start is a really bad way to build his confidence, in my opinion. Waiting to see how it turned out isn't exactly fair, is it? This is like when Dusty would do something stupid in 2003, have it work out, and Chip Caray would say, "Dusty pushes the right button again!" Those drinking birds can push buttons, too.

 

Yet we use hindsight all throughout this thread to take issue with Dusty's decisions.

totally wrong. Dusty bashers complain about what dusty is doing beforehand either here or in gamethread/flashchat. dusty supporters wait until neifi gets a hit to say anything here.

 

BINGO.

[mhuber92211]

 

Yet we use hindsight all throughout this thread to take issue with Dusty's decisions.

totally wrong. Dusty bashers complain about what dusty is doing beforehand either here or in gamethread/flashchat. dusty supporters wait until neifi gets a hit to say anything here.

 

Alas, I would disagree. This thread BEGAN AFTER the pinch hitting decisions of Macias & Perez in Arizona. Going back to the first thre pages or so, I even explained my view of the purposes of these moves in light of the gametime decision. I even spoke about how we all have to remember that these decisions are made during the game and we are sitting here without pressure and can look after the fact and identify what was bad because it didn't work. In fact the majority of this thread speaks about the Why this and the Why not that as opposed to I understand this but how come they didn't do that?

 

Slight difference sure, but to say that this thread uses hindsight by the pro-dusty people only is laughable.

[Illini Iceman]

Ha ha! Macias and Neifi on the left side of the infield in Game Two! Between the two of them and Blanco, it's good to see we're only going to the plate with 6 hitters (including Prior).

 

](*,)

 

and amazingily enough the Cubs have scored 7 runs by the 3rd inning. Lets try to make sure that the moves are poor before we discount them

Hindsight is 20-20. Benching A-Ram, Barrett, and Nomar for Prior's first start is a really bad way to build his confidence, in my opinion. Waiting to see how it turned out isn't exactly fair, is it? This is like when Dusty would do something stupid in 2003, have it work out, and Chip Caray would say, "Dusty pushes the right button again!" Those drinking birds can push buttons, too.

 

Yet we use hindsight all throughout this thread to take issue with Dusty's decisions.

totally wrong. Dusty bashers complain about what dusty is doing beforehand either here or in gamethread/flashchat. dusty supporters wait until neifi gets a hit to say anything here.

 

BINGO.

 

Give me a break. You guys rip just about everything he does and then whenever it turns out badly for him you make a big deal about how right you were and how stupid he is. However, whenever it turns out to be a good move you say either he was just lucky or have no comment. It doesn't even make for good conversation, because there is obviously an axe to grind that will not allow the Dusty bashers to engage in any give and take. It is either you agree that Dusty is an idiot or then obviously you don't know anything about baseball and statistics.

[Careless]

 

Yet we use hindsight all throughout this thread to take issue with Dusty's decisions.

totally wrong. Dusty bashers complain about what dusty is doing beforehand either here or in gamethread/flashchat. dusty supporters wait until neifi gets a hit to say anything here.

 

Alas, I would disagree. This thread BEGAN AFTER the pinch hitting decisions of Macias & Perez in Arizona. Going back to the first thre pages or so, I even explained my view of the purposes of these moves in light of the gametime decision. I even spoke about how we all have to remember that these decisions are made during the game and we are sitting here without pressure and can look after the fact and identify what was bad because it didn't work. In fact the majority of this thread speaks about the Why this and the Why not that as opposed to I understand this but how come they didn't do that?

 

Slight difference sure, but to say that this thread uses hindsight by the pro-dusty people only is laughable.

that's because people, like I said in the above post, were complaining about it when they saw macias announced in the gamethread/flashchat. they're not going to immediately rush over here to start a thread bashing dusty. after the game they are done with the gamethread/flashchat. so what do they do? they start this thread. Go ahead, look at the gamethread for the first games and compare the first freakout about macias and neifi PHing to the start of this thread. Or to the actual results of their ABs. People were pointing out that dusty was being freaking stupid before they took a swing, while they were swinging, and continued here after the game ended

[Careless]

You guys rip just about everything he does and then whenever it turns out badly for him you make a big deal about how right you were and how stupid he is. However, whenever it turns out to be a good move you say either he was just lucky or have no comment.

Hey, I've suggested that we record every move dusty makes so we can judge his entire body of work and compare it to the moves that all the other managers we play make. Short of that, there's no truely fair way we can judge him. And even using that method, we're still going to be comparing him to just the group of MLB managers who are not (no offense intended) the brightest group out there. They get their jobs because of their connections and reputations which can be built up by working with a winning program. To use commie china as an example, chinese leaders will allocate bank loans to provinces/counties under the control of their followers thereby making their followers' records look better. they get them good reputations and good jobs with large payrolls. Virtue compared to the rest of the population has VERY little to do with it

[Wheelimus]

well, I'm certainly not a Dusty supporter, and I want his head for Macias getting the playing time he's already gotten, but thus far he hasn't been wrong about Neifi. As a Cub, Neifi has been on it. Now, one of two things are happening here. a) one of those divine once in a lifetime things where a scrub just figures it out late in his career or b) a fluke and the bottom will fall out at anytime.

 

If it's a), hallelujah. If it's b), I'll call for Dusty's head for THIS when he's hitting .210 and he's still getting playing time outside of late inning defensive replacement and occasional pinch running.

[BadKermit]

Ha ha! Macias and Neifi on the left side of the infield in Game Two! Between the two of them and Blanco, it's good to see we're only going to the plate with 6 hitters (including Prior).

 

](*,)

 

and amazingily enough the Cubs have scored 7 runs by the 3rd inning. Lets try to make sure that the moves are poor before we discount them

Hindsight is 20-20. Benching A-Ram, Barrett, and Nomar for Prior's first start is a really bad way to build his confidence, in my opinion. Waiting to see how it turned out isn't exactly fair, is it? This is like when Dusty would do something stupid in 2003, have it work out, and Chip Caray would say, "Dusty pushes the right button again!" Those drinking birds can push buttons, too.

 

Yet we use hindsight all throughout this thread to take issue with Dusty's decisions.

Check the time, dude. I complained before Neifi found that four leaf clover.

[BadKermit]

I don't think you get it: statistics are never wrong - and infalliably they predict future events. I have a stat here that said Neifi was going to go 6 for 9 today. I do. No I'm not going to show it to you. It's secret.

 

I bet $10 mil on Neifi going 6 for 9 today and now I have all the money in the world, thanks to statistics.

 

Here's my impression of some: "Dammit - Neifi did good! The Cubs frickin won....man that sucks!'

Quit categorizing people who don't agree with Dusty's stupid decisions as people who don't want to see the Cubs succeed. I rooted for all of Neifi's weak bloop singles and bunt hits to fall.

 

No jury would convict me....

They would if I were doing the voir dire.

[ZZ Thorn]

Ha ha! Macias and Neifi on the left side of the infield in Game Two! Between the two of them and Blanco, it's good to see we're only going to the plate with 6 hitters (including Prior).

 

](*,)

 

and amazingily enough the Cubs have scored 7 runs by the 3rd inning. Lets try to make sure that the moves are poor before we discount them

Hindsight is 20-20. Benching A-Ram, Barrett, and Nomar for Prior's first start is a really bad way to build his confidence, in my opinion. Waiting to see how it turned out isn't exactly fair, is it? This is like when Dusty would do something stupid in 2003, have it work out, and Chip Caray would say, "Dusty pushes the right button again!" Those drinking birds can push buttons, too.

 

Yet we use hindsight all throughout this thread to take issue with Dusty's decisions.

totally wrong. Dusty bashers complain about what dusty is doing beforehand either here or in gamethread/flashchat. dusty supporters wait until neifi gets a hit to say anything here.

 

BINGO.

 

Give me a break. You guys rip just about everything he does and then whenever it turns out badly for him you make a big deal about how right you were and how stupid he is. However, whenever it turns out to be a good move you say either he was just lucky or have no comment. It doesn't even make for good conversation, because there is obviously an axe to grind that will not allow the Dusty bashers to engage in any give and take. It is either you agree that Dusty is an idiot or then obviously you don't know anything about baseball and statistics.

 

I know! Frosty and Careless are so way off its hilarious. Have they been visiting baseball discussions?

 

To me, game thread and flash chats aren't places with solid baseball info. It's the nature of the mediums to be over-emotional and stupid. [/b]

[ZZ Thorn]

Well that's just baseball. You get a hit 33 times out of a hundred and you're an all-star.

 

Dude, you're talking stats now. Not your strong suit. Speaking of stats, I have some question for you:

 

A) If we were to start Neifi in 100 double headers, how many times do you think he would go 6 for 9 or better?

 

B) If we were also to start Hairston in 100 double headers, whom do you believe is likely to be the more productive player - Neifi or Hairston?

 

C) Should questions A and B influence Dusty's decisions on playing time for the rest of the season?

 

100 double headers? So Neifi is playing over say 70 seasons? Or he's playing a 200 game season? Geez, not that well. He'd really get worn down around the 30th doubleheader.

 

I keep saying that stats are a general predictor of future outcomes. There are many variables that need to be taken into account, many of which are unaccounted for by stats. Who's the starting pitcher in these doubleheader? What are the conditions? What position are they playing. How are they feeling personally? What stadium are they playing in? Etc.

 

As I've repeatedly said, bench guys HAVE TO PLAY SOMETIMES - didn't Macias get his first start just friggin yesterday? In a DH? What's the problem?

 

Hairston started the other game. Is the problem cuz Hairston didn't play first? If it is, standing on ceremony is for royaty and egoists, not baseball players. And again, this decision can easily be exscused by a manager playing his hunches, which are based on variables and knowledge that many presume to have, but I am certain do not. THEY BOTH PLAYED, what's the problem?

 

So Frosty, Dusty has repeatedly said Hairston is going to get plenty of starts. I will bet you with 1,000,000 to 1 odds he gets more starts than Macias, so just take it easy. Everyone knows Hairston is better, including Dusty. It's still April, if the almighty stats show that Hariston is still getting less PT than Macias in June then we'll have as big problem as you think there is.

[ZZ Thorn]

I just checked the stats - we're arguing about two guys, Hairston and Macias, who have a whopping 23 ABs between them. Sweet Mary!

 

Hairston has more (12) by the way, and anyway, we all know Macias sucks. Come June the wheat will seperate from the chaff.

 

And, Macias only has more ABs than Blanco, the terrible hitting backup catcher, and Dubois, the rookie whiff machine. If someone just read this thread they'd come away with impression that Dusty was having Macias bat 4th daily. The guy is the 24th man. Dubois starts at the bottom, he's no CP coming up to the bigs at 20 with a pedigree, if he can't beat out Macias in the very few ABs these guys get he doesn't deserve anything more than being the 25th man.

 

I bet by June Dubois is the 24th man. Unless he totally blows it, i.e. pulls a Bellhorn, cuz he only has to beat out Macias.

[BadKermit]

I just checked the stats - we're arguing about two guys, Hairston and Macias, who have a whopping 23 ABs between them. Sweet Mary!

 

Hairston has more (12) by the way, and anyway, we all know Macias sucks. Come June the wheat will seperate from the chaff.

 

And, Macias only has more ABs than Blanco, the terrible hitting backup catcher, and Dubois, the rookie whiff machine. If someone just read this thread they'd come away with impression that Dusty was having Macias bat 4th daily. The guy is the 24th man. Dubois starts at the bottom, he's no CP coming up to the bigs at 20 with a pedigree, if he can't beat out Macias in the very few ABs these guys get he doesn't deserve anything more than being the 25th man.

 

I bet by June Dubois is the 24th man. Unless he totally blows it, i.e. pulls a Bellhorn, cuz he only has to beat out Macias.

Run! Here comes Vance!

[SeldomSeen]

Ha ha! Macias and Neifi on the left side of the infield in Game Two! Between the two of them and Blanco, it's good to see we're only going to the plate with 6 hitters (including Prior).

 

](*,)

 

and amazingily enough the Cubs have scored 7 runs by the 3rd inning. Lets try to make sure that the moves are poor before we discount them

Hindsight is 20-20. Benching A-Ram, Barrett, and Nomar for Prior's first start is a really bad way to build his confidence, in my opinion. Waiting to see how it turned out isn't exactly fair, is it? This is like when Dusty would do something stupid in 2003, have it work out, and Chip Caray would say, "Dusty pushes the right button again!" Those drinking birds can push buttons, too.

 

Yet we use hindsight all throughout this thread to take issue with Dusty's decisions.

totally wrong. Dusty bashers complain about what dusty is doing when they get out of bed in the morning. dusty supporters wait until neifi gets a hit to say anything here.

 

Took care of that for ya. :D

[frostwyrm]

I get the feeling some people here would have posted an "attaboy Dusty" after every one of Lenny Harris' 24 hits. I look forward to Macias' 1st RBI: "Dusty pulled the right string!", etc. ad nauseam. Macias had 22 RBI's in 2004, and 2005 will be a long season for me if I read and respond to that many "attaboy Dusty" threads. And there is Neifi too. If I had any self-discipline I would just wait till the end of the season, when Neifi and Macias have booked another year of predictably awful numbers in their awful careers, and then respond to the several dozens of "attaboys" that have accumulated over the course of the season.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

 

And, Macias only has more ABs than Blanco, the terrible hitting backup catcher, and Dubois, the rookie whiff machine. If someone just read this thread they'd come away with impression that Dusty was having Macias bat 4th daily. The guy is the 24th man. Dubois starts at the bottom, he's no CP coming up to the bigs at 20 with a pedigree, if he can't beat out Macias in the very few ABs these guys get he doesn't deserve anything more than being the 25th man.

 

If by "rookie whiff machine" you mean the best hitter on our bench, then I'm with you.

[louisvillecub]

Dubois a "rookie whiff machine"??

 

Where does that come from??

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I just checked the stats - we're arguing about two guys, Hairston and Macias, who have a whopping 23 ABs between them. Sweet Mary!

 

Hairston has more (12) by the way, and anyway, we all know Macias sucks. Come June the wheat will seperate from the chaff.

 

And, Macias only has more ABs than Blanco, the terrible hitting backup catcher, and Dubois, the rookie whiff machine. If someone just read this thread they'd come away with impression that Dusty was having Macias bat 4th daily. The guy is the 24th man. Dubois starts at the bottom, he's no CP coming up to the bigs at 20 with a pedigree, if he can't beat out Macias in the very few ABs these guys get he doesn't deserve anything more than being the 25th man.

 

I bet by June Dubois is the 24th man. Unless he totally blows it, i.e. pulls a Bellhorn, cuz he only has to beat out Macias.

Run! Here comes Vance!

 

I'm avoiding this thread for obvious reasons. ZZ thinks like Dusty. He thinks just because Dubois is a rookie he should be the 25th man. He ignores Dubois' 316 BA in Iowa, his 389 OBP and his 1.019 OPS. He ignores the fact that he was an AFL MVP and that he's performed at every level, and I'd bet put up better minor league numbers than Macias or Perez ever did. He ignores the fact that Dubois is hitting .375 this year despite the fact he's played sporadically compared to Hollandsworth's 241 BA. He ignores the fact that Dubois has an OBP of 444 compared to Hollandsworth's 333. Dubois should be getting more starts instead of rotting on the bench. With Walker out, Dubois should be the first option off the bench. Of course, ZZ believes in everything Dusty does. So if Dusty has Dubois at the end of the bench, that's where he should be. I just have trouble trusting Dusty. This is the man who believes tall people have more moveable parts, black people play better in the heat, that walks clog the bases, that the Yankees didn't win by walking (when in their WS years, they were among the playoff leaders in walks), and spouts wonderful stories about fish to try to get his point across. Of course, trusting ZZ would be trusting someone who doesn't think Adam Dunn has value either, so maybe I should be done with the discussion.

[Soul]

There's a chance, with Holly's injury history, the Dubois thing will take care of itself. Especially if Dusty plays Holly alot.

 

Neifi/Hairston though. That could fester all year--regardless of what Dusty says.

[minnesotacubsfan]

I just checked the stats - we're arguing about two guys, Hairston and Macias, who have a whopping 23 ABs between them. Sweet Mary!

 

Hairston has more (12) by the way, and anyway, we all know Macias sucks. Come June the wheat will seperate from the chaff.

 

And, Macias only has more ABs than Blanco, the terrible hitting backup catcher, and Dubois, the rookie whiff machine. If someone just read this thread they'd come away with impression that Dusty was having Macias bat 4th daily. The guy is the 24th man. Dubois starts at the bottom, he's no CP coming up to the bigs at 20 with a pedigree, if he can't beat out Macias in the very few ABs these guys get he doesn't deserve anything more than being the 25th man.

 

I bet by June Dubois is the 24th man. Unless he totally blows it, i.e. pulls a Bellhorn, cuz he only has to beat out Macias.

 

would this make him a "Wookie"?

[minnesotacubsfan]

I just checked the stats - we're arguing about two guys, Hairston and Macias, who have a whopping 23 ABs between them. Sweet Mary!

 

Hairston has more (12) by the way, and anyway, we all know Macias sucks. Come June the wheat will seperate from the chaff.

 

And, Macias only has more ABs than Blanco, the terrible hitting backup catcher, and Dubois, the rookie whiff machine. If someone just read this thread they'd come away with impression that Dusty was having Macias bat 4th daily. The guy is the 24th man. Dubois starts at the bottom, he's no CP coming up to the bigs at 20 with a pedigree, if he can't beat out Macias in the very few ABs these guys get he doesn't deserve anything more than being the 25th man.

 

I bet by June Dubois is the 24th man. Unless he totally blows it, i.e. pulls a Bellhorn, cuz he only has to beat out Macias.

 

would this make him a "Wookie"?

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

I just checked the stats - we're arguing about two guys, Hairston and Macias, who have a whopping 23 ABs between them. Sweet Mary!

 

Hairston has more (12) by the way, and anyway, we all know Macias sucks. Come June the wheat will seperate from the chaff.

 

And, Macias only has more ABs than Blanco, the terrible hitting backup catcher, and Dubois, the rookie whiff machine. If someone just read this thread they'd come away with impression that Dusty was having Macias bat 4th daily. The guy is the 24th man. Dubois starts at the bottom, he's no CP coming up to the bigs at 20 with a pedigree, if he can't beat out Macias in the very few ABs these guys get he doesn't deserve anything more than being the 25th man.

 

I bet by June Dubois is the 24th man. Unless he totally blows it, i.e. pulls a Bellhorn, cuz he only has to beat out Macias.

 

would this make him a "Wookie"?

 

I just think it is a little misleading to call anyone with a .375 BA a whiff machine.

But I guess nicknames can be used when the point is weak.

[minnesotacubsfan]

I just checked the stats - we're arguing about two guys, Hairston and Macias, who have a whopping 23 ABs between them. Sweet Mary!

 

Hairston has more (12) by the way, and anyway, we all know Macias sucks. Come June the wheat will seperate from the chaff.

 

And, Macias only has more ABs than Blanco, the terrible hitting backup catcher, and Dubois, the rookie whiff machine. If someone just read this thread they'd come away with impression that Dusty was having Macias bat 4th daily. The guy is the 24th man. Dubois starts at the bottom, he's no CP coming up to the bigs at 20 with a pedigree, if he can't beat out Macias in the very few ABs these guys get he doesn't deserve anything more than being the 25th man.

 

I bet by June Dubois is the 24th man. Unless he totally blows it, i.e. pulls a Bellhorn, cuz he only has to beat out Macias.

 

would this make him a "Wookie"?

 

I just think it is a little misleading to call anyone with a .375 BA a whiff machine.

But I guess nicknames can be used when the point is weak.

 

actually, for sarcastic or perhaps, voodoo-ish reasons, it might be perfectly fine to call him that.

[vance_the_cubs_fan]

He already has a good nick-name.

[minnesotacubsfan]

He already has a good nick-name.

 

 

ok, I admit, it was a lame attempt at humor...

 

:wink:

[treebird]

But I guess nicknames can be used when the point is weak.

 

Whatever you say, Dusty Buster.