Summer Complex League Changes

[Rex Buckingham]

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/arizona-florida-complex-league-schedules-changing-for-2024/

I don't have a BA sub, but from the free part of the article it seems that drafted players basically won't be available for complex leagues this year

[CubinNY]

<puts on tinfoil hat>

MLB is doing everything it can to keep players from making as much money as possible. And in so doing irreparable damage to the quality of the game.

<takes off tinfoil hat>

There must be a good reason for this but I don't know what it is.

[Bertz]

This seems fine?  Good even?  Most high school players don't get into games right after getting drafted.  Like looking at Termarr Johnson, a tippy top offensivd high school prospect, he got into 23 games post draft.  9 games in the ACL and 14 in low A.  Top talents like him could probably still go straight to A ball.  Mid round prospects, like our own Christopher Paciolla, don't usually get into formal games their draft year at all.  College players often spend like a weekend in the complex league before going into full season ball.  They're also not going to really miss anything.

Moving everything up a month I think makes it more likely that the really young and raw guys get a ~month in full season ball if they show out in their complex league.  Think like Owen Caissie in '21 or Ballesteros in '22.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

43 minutes ago, Rex Buckingham said:

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/arizona-florida-complex-league-schedules-changing-for-2024/

I don't have a BA sub, but from the free part of the article it seems that drafted players basically won't be available for complex leagues this year

Season is beginning and ending a month earlier than previous seasons, so this year, May 4 - July 25. 

Also has the additional benefit of replacing the hottest month of the year in the Phoenix metro (August) with a cooler one (May) and takes out the wettest month of the year in Florida.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

8 minutes ago, TomtheBombadil said:

Note the creep here as its a huge part of their game

What exactly is the diabolical outcome you think is happening because of a change like this

[Transmogrified Tiger]

20 minutes ago, TomtheBombadil said:

The outcomes are already there. Younger gens have been making less money, literally are expected to have shorter life spans, own less, start later, have to do or spend moar (always) for less etc etc…Why so concerned with outcome and not process? Why are we so casually cool with young players playing fewer games, particularly when so much rhetoric around paying young people is around experience and not being Proven, as if teams couldn’t also be coaching and developing them around that schedule?

This reads like someone raving to no one in particular on a street corner, can you please try to explain this with more detail and less shorthand, because I'm pretty sure I don't agree with at least some of what you're assuming as bedrock fact.  To simplify my point of view:

• Complex leagues are barely above an intrasquad scrimmage, there's basically zero competitive stakes and games are played/managed as such.  The main differentiation is that they report the box scores, which makes essentially no difference for player development or future pay
• Because there's basically no difference in facing your own org's teammates in intrasquad situations, draftees not being able to play in the last portion of the Complex season isn't going to lead to a bunch more of them starting in affiliated ball later than they would have before.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Dude can you just talk like a human being, it's honestly worrying that you can't write coherent sentences.

[Tim]

16 minutes ago, TomtheBombadil said:

Sorry but I couldn't give you what you wanted in any reasonable amount of time, but what a microcosm eh? They can take from younger people with no explanation other than it's a rule to make their other limiting rules work, defenders - distanced in a variety of ways from the impact of this new rule now and forever - will say it happens sometimes already plus nothing matters therefore this is good, but skepticism requires all kinds of data collected, analyzed, and properly presented....Stuff like this this is why I'm a crazy person: watching gen pop applaud the genius of being dominated by a few babies with more Monopoly money than the rest of the world combined is some surreal horsefeathers

 

Holy crap - there's not a single period in that whole thing.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

13 minutes ago, TomtheBombadil said:

What's appropriate here? Golf clap for a new rule taking the opportunity to play games and get PAs or innings away from always aging players and created to support a slightly less new rule?

This is not a 'your opinions are bad' thing, I suspect I disagree with you but I do value your perspective so I'm trying to take it in but you're making it impossible. Seriously look at your previous post and read it out loud, it's incomprehensible.  It's clear from context and most of what you've posted this offseason that it's vaguely ranting against the Man, but beyond that it's indecipherable and not making any point.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

The big negative to minor leaguers is already in place - it’s the reduction to 165-player rosters. This is just a natural response to the smaller rosters, and it probably helps minor leaguers more in this new world by giving players who weren’t just drafted more opportunities instead of being immediately passed over for the new draft class.

[Bertz]

51 minutes ago, CaliforniaRaisin said:

The big negative to minor leaguers is already in place - it’s the reduction to 165-player rosters. This is just a natural response to the smaller rosters, and it probably helps minor leaguers more in this new world by giving players who weren’t just drafted more opportunities instead of being immediately passed over for the new draft class.

Yeah the big blow has already happened with smaller rosters and the loss of the NWL and its equivalents.  But stuff like this isn't really a problem.  It's removing a layover from a bunch of fresh draftees on their way to full season ball and handing those PAs back to 18/19 year old prior year HS draftees and IFAs. 

Also TT nailed it in that the difference between the ACL and like scrimmages or EXST games is much more about the fact that the former is recorded better and less about the quality of competition or instruction.

Edited February 13, 2024 by Bertz

[craig]

I don't see any problem with the change, and I imagine it makes some sense. 

1. Minor leaguers who are in Arizona for spring training, can then stay for some of the no-box-score scrimmage season for one month in April rather than two months of that, and then progress to box-score Complex League in May instead of waiting till June.  
2. If they are progressing, then there will be a nice window of Myrtle's season left for them to advance in.  So I think it's probably nice for the minor-leaguers.  And probably all of the coaches, too.
3. Finishing end of July, for guys that don't advance to Myrtle, that also gives them a longer window within to work on things, or to rest as needed, in advance of Fall Instrux? To be going non-stop from spring training through Fall Instrux with little break might be hard, physically and or homesick-wise?  
4. For high school draftees, a HS stud like Hope got 35 AB last year.  Kind of a bummer for fans to lose that, but developmentally I'm not sure that's really anything lost.  They can still be doing scrimmage work and getting coached as needed.  College guys only spent a couple of days there anyway, so who cares?  
5. Overall, I think this will just be a nice opportunity for IFA guys and for low-level draftees from the previous year to push their way up to Myrtle faster, and to advance their careers, not delay them?

[craig]

I wonder if this might also be nice for carryover guys and draftees?  I'm guessing that guys who have hanging around since March, all the rhythms maybe get disrupted when the new draftees start rolling in?  Perhaps this way, the newly drafted guys can get all the primary attention they need, and the coaches can focus their time on the newly drafted guys.  Other guys can stay and get help too; or maybe some will take a break, and go back and visit their family in the Dominican or whatever; or go fishing with grandpa in Wisconsin, or whatever? 

[CubinNY]

Tom, I think people can be sympathetic to your sentiment but at the same time, this change doesn't appear to support an overarching malevolent intent. There appear to be good reasons for why the change was made.    

[craig]

16 hours ago, TomtheBombadil said:

Taking the possibility of PAs at any pro level from an entire demo of healthy and able pro players largely evaluated by their demonstrated performance in games is not a win for players, .... On the whole this will push more HS talent to the NCAA, pushes 18 YO signees to an age 19 debut in like good faith(?) that less or unofficial

HS talent like Alfonsin Rosario or Zyhir Hope will not choose college over pro because they are being denied 30 PA.  If so, they are probably too dumb for college anyway!  No pitcher is going to decide based on 5 innings in Arizona league.  

And any fan or pro scout who is "largely evaluating" some new draftee by 5 innings or 30 PA in Arizona August is not a very wise or sophisticated evaluator.  

This makes zero difference on their career or their pros-and-cons about signing.  Insignificant.  

Moving the draft from June to July, that's the move that had already obviated the relevance of the summer league for new draftees.  I wish they hadn't made that change, but they did.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

On 2/13/2024 at 4:31 PM, craig said:

I don't see any problem with the change, and I imagine it makes some sense. 

1. Minor leaguers who are in Arizona for spring training, can then stay for some of the no-box-score scrimmage season for one month in April rather than two months of that, and then progress to box-score Complex League in May instead of waiting till June.  
2. If they are progressing, then there will be a nice window of Myrtle's season left for them to advance in.  So I think it's probably nice for the minor-leaguers.  And probably all of the coaches, too.
3. Finishing end of July, for guys that don't advance to Myrtle, that also gives them a longer window within to work on things, or to rest as needed, in advance of Fall Instrux? To be going non-stop from spring training through Fall Instrux with little break might be hard, physically and or homesick-wise?  
4. For high school draftees, a HS stud like Hope got 35 AB last year.  Kind of a bummer for fans to lose that, but developmentally I'm not sure that's really anything lost.  They can still be doing scrimmage work and getting coached as needed.  College guys only spent a couple of days there anyway, so who cares?  
5. Overall, I think this will just be a nice opportunity for IFA guys and for low-level draftees from the previous year to push their way up to Myrtle faster, and to advance their careers, not delay them?

On #3, Fall Instrux will likely start nearly immediately after the end of the moved up ACL season and last till when they do now (so Instrux will basically double in length).