Chicago Bears Offseason Thread (the tank must payoff)

[jersey cubs fan]

Honest question, if the Bears don't end up finding a trade package they like, and end up just taking Carter or Anderson with the #1 pick, is that a successful use of draft capital at the top?

No

 

That doesn’t mean it’s not a good pick or a successful draft, but when you have #1 and don’t need a qb but do need a ton of other stuff, you need to do something more than draft defense at the top and wait until pick 56 to grab an offensive player.

[raw]

Honest question, if the Bears don't end up finding a trade package they like, and end up just taking Carter or Anderson with the #1 pick, is that a successful use of draft capital at the top?

No

 

That doesn’t mean it’s not a good pick or a successful draft, but when you have #1 and don’t need a qb but do need a ton of other stuff, you need to do something more than draft defense at the top and wait until pick 56 to grab an offensive player.

 

Yep, even an underwhelming package of picks is better than sticking at 1 to me. The Bears will never have anything more valuable that they actually want to give up than the #1 pick. It's like finding a Van Gogh painting in your basement and not getting what you want from an art buyer and just hanging it in your house.

[Old Style]

Skip Bayless

Petition to have this name automatically changed to Stupid McUglyface if anyone posts it here.

[WrigleyField 22]

Honest question, if the Bears don't end up finding a trade package they like, and end up just taking Carter or Anderson with the #1 pick, is that a successful use of draft capital at the top?

No

 

That doesn’t mean it’s not a good pick or a successful draft, but when you have #1 and don’t need a qb but do need a ton of other stuff, you need to do something more than draft defense at the top and wait until pick 56 to grab an offensive player.

I mean they're lucky it's a decent QB draft and not 2022 or 2013.

 

I don't know if this is off base either, but I also feel like Anderson or Carter aren't a Myles Garret type prospect where staying pat would be more appealing.

[WrigleyField 22]

Honest question, if the Bears don't end up finding a trade package they like, and end up just taking Carter or Anderson with the #1 pick, is that a successful use of draft capital at the top?

No

 

That doesn’t mean it’s not a good pick or a successful draft, but when you have #1 and don’t need a qb but do need a ton of other stuff, you need to do something more than draft defense at the top and wait until pick 56 to grab an offensive player.

 

Yep, even an underwhelming package of picks is better than sticking at 1 to me. The Bears will never have anything more valuable that they actually want to give up than the #1 pick. It's like finding a Van Gogh painting in your basement and not getting what you want from an art buyer and just hanging it in your house.

Yea, I mean, if they took the exact same package for 1-4 that the Colts got from New York to go 3-6, it would still have about 200 excess points on the Jimmy Johnson chart (Jets realllllly overpaid for Darnold lol).

 

So you could take a little less than 2 current year high seconds and a future second and still justify it straight up on the JJ chart to go 1-4 with Colts.

 

And while people have dreamed up extracting a ransom from Houston, a Trubisky like package to move one slot would still give them 3 extra top 100ish swings.

[Derwood]

Helluva year to NOT have a Bosa-level defender in the draft :banghead:

[minnesotacubsfan]

Helluva year to NOT have a Bosa-level defender in the draft :banghead:

 

Bosa (either one) was not an obvious home run

 

I have to admit, I might be wrong about Anderson. David pointed out that Carter was drawing "Darnold" comparisons and last season, Carter was clearly stronger than Anderson. How far would the Bers drop before you would feel comfortable still getting Carter?

[knoblejr]

So this kid has to be our guy. He can help the offense from day 1 and give herbert running lanes as well as give Fields time to throw. Watch some of his film he is a beats.

 

https://www.draftdive.com/ocyrus-torrence-scouting-report/

[UK]

Helluva year to NOT have a Bosa-level defender in the draft :banghead:

 

Bosa (either one) was not an obvious home run

 

I have to admit, I might be wrong about Anderson. David pointed out that Carter was drawing "Darnold" comparisons and last season, Carter was clearly stronger than Anderson. How far would the Bers drop before you would feel comfortable still getting Carter?

 

If they don't go sign someone like Payne, I would be fine if they drafted him at 1 if they felt he was the BPA and for some reason a trade fell through.

 

They still have to be proven wrong at this point whether they can be trusted even in hypotheticals.

[raw]

So this kid has to be our guy. He can help the offense from day 1 and give herbert running lanes as well as give Fields time to throw. Watch some of his film he is a beats.

 

https://www.draftdive.com/ocyrus-torrence-scouting-report/

 

He's the best guard in this draft. Could argue the best lineman, IMO, if Skoronski's short arms move him to the interior. One thing about him is he's HUGE. 347lbs is his listed weight. The Bears have talked about wanting smaller, athletic linemen to run their outside zone scheme. But Torrence is really good. Even if he lost like 15-20lbs though, he'd still be on the bigger side for what the Bears like. I'm not sure if he'll be truly on their radar, but if he can move well enough at the combine, I don't see why they couldn't make it work.

 

He's played both LG and RG and with this length, if he shows the footwork, I wouldn't be surprised if he could be a solid RT.

[raw]

Helluva year to NOT have a Bosa-level defender in the draft :banghead:

 

Bosa (either one) was not an obvious home run

 

I have to admit, I might be wrong about Anderson. David pointed out that Carter was drawing "Darnold" comparisons and last season, Carter was clearly stronger than Anderson. How far would the Bers drop before you would feel comfortable still getting Carter?

 

If they don't go sign someone like Payne, I would be fine if they drafted him at 1 if they felt he was the BPA and for some reason a trade fell through.

 

They still have to be proven wrong at this point whether they can be trusted even in hypotheticals.

 

Eh, there's really no excuse to pick a player with the #1 pick. They have to trade it, whether they get a huge package or not, they should at least get 2-3 top 100 picks. They have to take that over a non-consensus #1 pick.

 

That being said, I think Will Anderson may be a Bosa level talent. He's definitely similar to Joey in recruiting rankings in their respective years. Nick was a top 5 recruit by most publications, but Anderson was a 5-star as well and top 50. Anderson also has put up double digit sacks in the last 2 years in the best conference in college football. He's really damn good.

[David]

Helluva year to NOT have a Bosa-level defender in the draft :banghead:

 

uhh isn't the top of this draft supposed to be really heavy on defensive talent

[CubinNY]

Helluva year to NOT have a Bosa-level defender in the draft :banghead:

 

uhh isn't the top of this draft supposed to be really heavy on defensive talent

Johnson, the WR from TCU is a top 10 candidate and there are several others projected to go in the first round, but it is supposedly a very weak draft. Maybe they want to target the position through FA. OL is weak too, but there is one in the top 10.

[Outshined_One]

Helluva year to NOT have a Bosa-level defender in the draft :banghead:

 

uhh isn't the top of this draft supposed to be really heavy on defensive talent

 

My impression is there is a lot of quality depth at the top of the draft on the DL, with Anderson and Carter leading the way, but I'm not as sure how Anderson and Carter stack up compared to recent guys like Bosa and Chase Young. WrigleyField22 mentioned neither of them stack up to Myles Garrett, and I think that's accurate, although you can make a really good argument Garrett's the best DL prospect to come out in the last decade.

 

There are some concerns with Anderson's size and speed, which might limit his usefulness when he's not rushing the passer, and Carter has some questions about his technique and health. The Combine will help tell the tale, and I think the Bears' D would improve measurably with either, but I don't think the Bears *have* to walk away from this draft with either guy.

[raw]

Helluva year to NOT have a Bosa-level defender in the draft :banghead:

 

uhh isn't the top of this draft supposed to be really heavy on defensive talent

 

My impression is there is a lot of quality depth at the top of the draft on the DL, with Anderson and Carter leading the way, but I'm not as sure how Anderson and Carter stack up compared to recent guys like Bosa and Chase Young. WrigleyField22 mentioned neither of them stack up to Myles Garrett, and I think that's accurate, although you can make a really good argument Garrett's the best DL prospect to come out in the last decade.

 

There are some concerns with Anderson's size and speed, which might limit his usefulness when he's not rushing the passer, and Carter has some questions about his technique and health. The Combine will help tell the tale, and I think the Bears' D would improve measurably with either, but I don't think the Bears *have* to walk away from this draft with either guy.

 

Garrett, Young, and the Nick Bosa are definitely better prospects than any edge in this draft. But Anderson is better than either of the first 2 picks last year (Walker, Hutchinson) IMO. Myles Murphy is a Travon Walker clone and he's DE2 or DE3. This is a really good edge draft, with a lot of players with 8+ sack potential, IMO. Anderson isn't quite generational, but he's pretty good. And I think this draft is about 8-9 deep in Round 1 or 2 guys that can be good pro players early in their careers.

[UMFan83]

Tony Pollard broke his leg yesterday. Wonder if this will depress his value a bit or if it makes it more likely he takes a friendlier deal to stay with the Cowboys

[WrigleyField 22]

Helluva year to NOT have a Bosa-level defender in the draft :banghead:

 

uhh isn't the top of this draft supposed to be really heavy on defensive talent

 

My impression is there is a lot of quality depth at the top of the draft on the DL, with Anderson and Carter leading the way, but I'm not as sure how Anderson and Carter stack up compared to recent guys like Bosa and Chase Young. WrigleyField22 mentioned neither of them stack up to Myles Garrett, and I think that's accurate, although you can make a really good argument Garrett's the best DL prospect to come out in the last decade.

 

There are some concerns with Anderson's size and speed, which might limit his usefulness when he's not rushing the passer, and Carter has some questions about his technique and health. The Combine will help tell the tale, and I think the Bears' D would improve measurably with either, but I don't think the Bears *have* to walk away from this draft with either guy.

Yea, Andersons size has been brought up a lot. But then I also saw someone say his listed height/weight is the same as Khalil Mack's at Buffalo and I went down the dubious "scouting off still photos" rabbit hole and kind of left wondering if he's actually too small.

 

Of course it's a trap to focus on a single below average trait and compare it to one great player. BUT, definitely deserves some careful question of what his lack of size hasn't let him do and what specifically it harms. If you can point to elite traits he has that he uses, the less elite traits becomes less important because they're just not relevant to their game. And that comp player was still a top 5 pick, not a nobody who surprised everyone.

 

That RAS guy had a long tweet thread recently talking about WR speed and I'm sure you can apply some of these points to DE athletic traits too

 

(Good thread, but a little rambling)

 

For reference once his testing numbers come combine time.

https://ras.football/ras-compare/?&p1=11400&p2=9654&pos=

Edited January 23, 2023 by WrigleyField 22

[raw]

Tony Pollard broke his leg yesterday. Wonder if this will depress his value a bit or if it makes it more likely he takes a friendlier deal to stay with the Cowboys

 

I'm guessing neither. He'll be good to go in like 3 months, and should have no long-term issues. The Cowboys signed Gallup for 5/57M last offseason and he actually had a torn ACL. While that's maybe a slight discount, they SHOULD cut Elliot and re-sign Pollard for whatever it takes. Zeke has a 16M cap hit next year and they save 11M if they cut him.

[UMFan83]

Tony Pollard broke his leg yesterday. Wonder if this will depress his value a bit or if it makes it more likely he takes a friendlier deal to stay with the Cowboys

 

I'm guessing neither. He'll be good to go in like 3 months, and should have no long-term issues. The Cowboys signed Gallup for 5/57M last offseason and he actually had a torn ACL. While that's maybe a slight discount, they SHOULD cut Elliot and re-sign Pollard for whatever it takes. Zeke has a 16M cap hit next year and they save 11M if they cut him.

 

Damn that seems like a no brainer. Zeke just hasn't been the same back the last couple of years even with a reduced workload to help with wear and tear. Wouldn't go near him. I also see a lot of people on twitter suggesting making a run at Barkley and I kind of feel the same way. A little different situation because he was still productive on a per carry basis but the Giants really throttled back his workload the second half of the season as his production started to decline rapidly. Don't know if you can trust him to be a three down back, and I'm sure he'll want to get paid like one.

[WrigleyField 22]

Tony Pollard broke his leg yesterday. Wonder if this will depress his value a bit or if it makes it more likely he takes a friendlier deal to stay with the Cowboys

 

I'm guessing neither. He'll be good to go in like 3 months, and should have no long-term issues. The Cowboys signed Gallup for 5/57M last offseason and he actually had a torn ACL. While that's maybe a slight discount, they SHOULD cut Elliot and re-sign Pollard for whatever it takes. Zeke has a 16M cap hit next year and they save 11M if they cut him.

I could still see Jerry valuing Zeke at 11M. But that will be a super interesting decision to watch that could have some really interesting ripple effects on the RB market.

[raw]

Tony Pollard broke his leg yesterday. Wonder if this will depress his value a bit or if it makes it more likely he takes a friendlier deal to stay with the Cowboys

 

I'm guessing neither. He'll be good to go in like 3 months, and should have no long-term issues. The Cowboys signed Gallup for 5/57M last offseason and he actually had a torn ACL. While that's maybe a slight discount, they SHOULD cut Elliot and re-sign Pollard for whatever it takes. Zeke has a 16M cap hit next year and they save 11M if they cut him.

 

Damn that seems like a no brainer. Zeke just hasn't been the same back the last couple of years even with a reduced workload to help with wear and tear. Wouldn't go near him. I also see a lot of people on twitter suggesting making a run at Barkley and I kind of feel the same way. A little different situation because he was still productive on a per carry basis but the Giants really throttled back his workload the second half of the season as his production started to decline rapidly. Don't know if you can trust him to be a three down back, and I'm sure he'll want to get paid like one.

 

I think the issue with Saquon was the big jump in usage. Due to his injuries, he hadn't been used that much since his rookie year. He had 352 touches this year and only like 230 in the previous 2 years combined. And almost 100 more touches than he had in any of the previous 3 seasons. He just got worn out. I think he'd be more capable of handling a similar workload in 2023, but I understand the hesitation to sign him to big money. I wouldn't turn him down by any means, but I'd almost certainly prefer a speedier back who's a better natural receiver.

[We Got The Whole 9]

Nobody in the draft is worth passing up on the trade from 1 IMO.

 

Sent from my motorola one 5G UW using Tapatalk

[raw]

Nobody in the draft is worth passing up on the trade from 1 IMO.

 

 

I don't know if there's any non-QB in any draft ever worth NOT trading back for. Obviously, if you're in a situation like the Jags were last year where they had a QB and there were no top 20 QBs, then you have to take the pick. But if you have a QB, and there are QBs at the top of the draft, and there are teams that need a QB, you trade it 100x out of 100.

[WrigleyField 22]

 

Want back at multi year (price contingent)

- David Montgomery

- DeAndre Houston Carson

 

Want Back at one year near-min/tender

- Darrynton Evans

- Josh Blackwell

- Patrick Scales

- Blasingame

 

Indifferent (one year unguaranteed deal only)

- Breon Borders

- Dieter Eiselen

- Andrew Brown

- Morrow

- Blackson

- Lee

- Pennel

- Harry

- Cruikshank

- Adams

- Armon Watts

- Trevon Wesco

- Joe Thomas

 

Can leave:

- Pettis

- Pringle

- Reiff

- Dozier

- Griffin

 

Fire into sun:

- Sam Mustipher

- Peterman

- Boyle

- Schofield

[raw]

 

Want back at multi year (price contingent)

- David Montgomery

- DeAndre Houston Carson

 

Want Back at one year near-min/tender

- Darrynton Evans

- Josh Blackwell

- Patrick Scales

- Blasingame

 

Indifferent (one year unguaranteed deal only)

- Breon Borders

- Dieter Eiselen

- Andrew Brown

- Morrow

- Blackson

- Lee

- Pennel

- Harry

- Cruikshank

- Adams

- Armon Watts

- Trevon Wesco

- Joe Thomas

 

Can leave:

- Pettis

- Pringle

- Reiff

- Dozier

- Griffin

 

Fire into sun:

- Sam Mustipher

- Peterman

- Boyle

- Schofield

 

Can't do without:

NONE

 

Might as well bring back:

Blackwell (ERFA deal is like 750K)

Evans (camp invite, possibly doesn't make the team)

Houston-Carson (can't help but love the guy, does a bit of everything)

 

I'd take back, but could be upgraded easily:

Scales

Wesco

Eiselen (probably should add enough to the OL that he goes away)

Watts (probably should add enough to the DL that he goes away)

 

Can Leave:

Literally everyone else