Bulls '20-'21

[CaliforniaRaisin]

i'm trying to still like the trade but it's really really hard. i don't see how we fix the defense in one offseason, and vuc and zach keep going cold down the stretches of games. assuming we don't move up in the lottery, we're already going to be giving up a pretty high 1st for vuc, and who knows what the 2023 pick will look like.

 

trading for vuc/theis/brown and then leaving the pg position alone is probably the biggest mistake so far this season. i'm sure they knew it was a half measure, but probably figured the roster would be good enough to get in the playoffs, and then we'd be able to fix the position in the offseason. and honestly, this roster IS good enough to be a playoff team in the east. they certainly shouldn't be playing like this.

 

They’re unlikely to get an all-star player with pick 7 or whatever those two picks would be if they didn’t make the trade, the picks are still top-4 protected and they needed to do something to help ensure Lavine re-signs.

 

I’m sure they tried to get a PG (that’s where all the rumors were) but it takes two to tango. Hopefully they can address it in the offseason.

[ChiCubsFan]

i'm trying to still like the trade but it's really really hard. i don't see how we fix the defense in one offseason, and vuc and zach keep going cold down the stretches of games. assuming we don't move up in the lottery, we're already going to be giving up a pretty high 1st for vuc, and who knows what the 2023 pick will look like.

 

trading for vuc/theis/brown and then leaving the pg position alone is probably the biggest mistake so far this season. i'm sure they knew it was a half measure, but probably figured the roster would be good enough to get in the playoffs, and then we'd be able to fix the position in the offseason. and honestly, this roster IS good enough to be a playoff team in the east. they certainly shouldn't be playing like this.

 

They’re unlikely to get an all-star player with pick 7 or whatever those two picks would be if they didn’t make the trade, the picks are still top-4 protected and they needed to do something to help ensure Lavine re-signs.

 

I’m sure they tried to get a PG (that’s where all the rumors were) but it takes two to tango. Hopefully they can address it in the offseason.

 

This. The trade for Vuc was NOT for this year. It was for the next 5 years.... and particularly for the next year+ to help keep Zach. And the team is good enough where the pick is going to be a late lottery/non lottery or they are going to get really lucky, but then get to keep their pick. So there’s really no downside, other than trading a 2023 pick in what may be a double draft. But we can worry about that later.

[bjam12]

I don't want much NBA outside of the Bulls, but there can't be many worse defensive teams in the league.

[raw]

i'm trying to still like the trade but it's really really hard. i don't see how we fix the defense in one offseason, and vuc and zach keep going cold down the stretches of games. assuming we don't move up in the lottery, we're already going to be giving up a pretty high 1st for vuc, and who knows what the 2023 pick will look like.

 

trading for vuc/theis/brown and then leaving the pg position alone is probably the biggest mistake so far this season. i'm sure they knew it was a half measure, but probably figured the roster would be good enough to get in the playoffs, and then we'd be able to fix the position in the offseason. and honestly, this roster IS good enough to be a playoff team in the east. they certainly shouldn't be playing like this.

 

I don't think you're looking at this the right way. They definitely aren't going to fix the defense anytime soon, but when you can't do that you have to get even more offense. The Bulls are looking at 10-14 in the lottery right now. Certainly not a "pretty high 1st". That's an acceptable range to give up. There's still 5-6 teams that will definitely finish below them. My hope is just that they don't go to that back end of the teams around 20-24 wins right now and be in that 6th-7th pick range.

 

I also don't think they left PG alone. They clearly tried for a couple players including Lonzo Ball. And I just never thought they matched up well in a trade with the Pelicans. And I don't think they necessarily thought they would be good enough to get into the playoffs in 2021. They definitely should be playing better, but they got rid of half the team and these things take time to come together. I think the trades were more of a move toward the 2021-22 season and beyond. I always took the moves as "if playoffs happen this year, great. If not, we should only be giving up a pick outside of the top 10". But just in case it did take longer they put top 4 protection in there. I'd still do the trade 100 times out of 100.

[17 Seconds]

i'm trying to still like the trade but it's really really hard. i don't see how we fix the defense in one offseason, and vuc and zach keep going cold down the stretches of games. assuming we don't move up in the lottery, we're already going to be giving up a pretty high 1st for vuc, and who knows what the 2023 pick will look like.

 

trading for vuc/theis/brown and then leaving the pg position alone is probably the biggest mistake so far this season. i'm sure they knew it was a half measure, but probably figured the roster would be good enough to get in the playoffs, and then we'd be able to fix the position in the offseason. and honestly, this roster IS good enough to be a playoff team in the east. they certainly shouldn't be playing like this.

 

They’re unlikely to get an all-star player with pick 7 or whatever those two picks would be if they didn’t make the trade, the picks are still top-4 protected and they needed to do something to help ensure Lavine re-signs.

 

I’m sure they tried to get a PG (that’s where all the rumors were) but it takes two to tango. Hopefully they can address it in the offseason.

 

This. The trade for Vuc was NOT for this year. It was for the next 5 years.... and particularly for the next year+ to help keep Zach. And the team is good enough where the pick is going to be a late lottery/non lottery or they are going to get really lucky, but then get to keep their pick. So there’s really no downside, other than trading a 2023 pick in what may be a double draft. But we can worry about that later.

 

the next 5 years? it's asking a lot for a center to be good until he's 36. not to mention it's not even guaranteed he signs here. obviously the trade was made for beyond this year, but they obviously were expecting much different results THIS year, and it's troubling just HOW bad they look.

 

the downside is that the zach/vuc combo could not work at all, and we end up giving away 2 firsts for nothing, while also not getting any top picks.

[17 Seconds]

pwill is making me sad

[ChiCubsFan]

 

They’re unlikely to get an all-star player with pick 7 or whatever those two picks would be if they didn’t make the trade, the picks are still top-4 protected and they needed to do something to help ensure Lavine re-signs.

 

I’m sure they tried to get a PG (that’s where all the rumors were) but it takes two to tango. Hopefully they can address it in the offseason.

 

This. The trade for Vuc was NOT for this year. It was for the next 5 years.... and particularly for the next year+ to help keep Zach. And the team is good enough where the pick is going to be a late lottery/non lottery or they are going to get really lucky, but then get to keep their pick. So there’s really no downside, other than trading a 2023 pick in what may be a double draft. But we can worry about that later.

 

the next 5 years? it's asking a lot for a center to be good until he's 36. not to mention it's not even guaranteed he signs here. obviously the trade was made for beyond this year, but they obviously were expecting much different results THIS year, and it's troubling just HOW bad they look.

 

the downside is that the zach/vuc combo could not work at all, and we end up giving away 2 firsts for nothing, while also not getting any top picks.

 

His game should easily translate for the next 5 years, but I was more meaning putting together a competitive team to surround Zach though his prime (hopefully with someone eventually better than Zach). Yes, they will be competitive next year.

 

The downside you speak of can easily be recuperated by trading Zach and/or Vuc if this really isn’t coming together a year from now. We also were very unlikely to get a top pick even before the trade, unless you consider the 10th overall pick a top pick.

 

Just curious, what would you have done instead?

[17 Seconds]

 

This. The trade for Vuc was NOT for this year. It was for the next 5 years.... and particularly for the next year+ to help keep Zach. And the team is good enough where the pick is going to be a late lottery/non lottery or they are going to get really lucky, but then get to keep their pick. So there’s really no downside, other than trading a 2023 pick in what may be a double draft. But we can worry about that later.

 

the next 5 years? it's asking a lot for a center to be good until he's 36. not to mention it's not even guaranteed he signs here. obviously the trade was made for beyond this year, but they obviously were expecting much different results THIS year, and it's troubling just HOW bad they look.

 

the downside is that the zach/vuc combo could not work at all, and we end up giving away 2 firsts for nothing, while also not getting any top picks.

 

His game should easily translate for the next 5 years, but I was more meaning putting together a competitive team to surround Zach though his prime (hopefully with someone eventually better than Zach). Yes, they will be competitive next year.

 

The downside you speak of can easily be recuperated by trading Zach and/or Vuc if this really isn’t coming together a year from now. We also were very unlikely to get a top pick even before the trade, unless you consider the 10th overall pick a top pick.

 

Just curious, what would you have done instead?

 

i still would have done it, but the early returns are pretty miserable. i know it's for the future, but it was supposed to lead them solidifying their spot this year. we need to establish that this is a good competitive team before any star would consider coming here, and it looks like the turnaround won't start until next season now.

 

it's just frustrating because even though this is an extremely flawed roster, there is still plenty of talent to be making a push in the weak east.

[ChiCubsFan]

Okay, so we generally agree. I definitely thought it was going to be a rough stretch initially with the difficult schedule and minimal practice days, but I can agree this is going worse than anticipated. Biggest problem with me is the rotations. Theis should be starting as Thad is a bit redundant next to Vuc and Theis’s rim protection and athleticism would help on the defensive end. He also can stretch the court a touch better than Thad. And then Thad can go back to being a playmaker when Vuc is resting.

 

You also can’t have PW playing 30+ mpg and giving you literally nothing. Add in when Sato and Lauri contribute nothing and Coby is always a net negative, and there’s just too many bad players for Zach and Vuc to overcome.

[17 Seconds]

how can they possibly be this bad? this is insane

[raw]

Yikes!

 

Sent from my SM-A115AZ using Tapatalk

[UMFan83]

how can they possibly be this bad? this is insane

 

Has anyone ever traded for an all star and then immediately go 3-10 after?

 

The Magic were 4-19 in their last 23 games coming into tonight. Unreal

[raw]

Zach LaVine is going to miss "several games" due to safety protocols. Operation: Top 4 Pick is beginning. :good:

[ChiCubsFan]

Can’t wait for all the Bulls are better without Lavine hot takes.

[17 Seconds]

Can’t wait for all the Bulls are better without Lavine hot takes.

 

are you suggesting the ewing theory was stupid?

[UMFan83]

The non-Sox Chicago sports scene is absolutely brutal right now

[CaliforniaRaisin]

 

Let’s horsefeathers around and get Suggs or Cunningham

[CaliforniaRaisin]

The non-Sox Chicago sports scene is absolutely brutal right now

 

The White Sox are under .500. Every Chicago sports team is the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked.

[The SABR Gamer]

The non-Sox Chicago sports scene is absolutely brutal right now

 

The White Sox are under .500. Every Chicago sports team is the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked.

 

They are a good team though.

[We Got The Whole 9]

You just know they're gonna (not) get the 5th pick

[ChiCubsFan]

You just know they're gonna (not) get the 5th pick

 

It’s virtually impossible for them to get the 5th pick. They would have to lose enough to finish with a worse record than Sacramento (probable), Cleveland (possible), and OKC (very unlikely). And then not have any team below 5 jump into the top 4, which is only a 2.2% chance of happening. Even if they somehow ended up with the 4th worst record, the odds of exactly one team jumping them and ending up with the 5th pick is only 7.2%. This is why I’m good with the trade basically no matter what. Very likely that it’ll be 1-4 (best case scenario) or 6+ in a 5 player draft.

 

Next 2/3 against Cleveland is huge. Gotta drop both. Finishing 6th worst increases the odds of Top 4 to 37.2%, with a 9.0% chance of Cade.

[CaliforniaRaisin]

The non-Sox Chicago sports scene is absolutely brutal right now

 

The White Sox are under .500. Every Chicago sports team is the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked.

 

They are a good team though.

 

Meh, they’re going to win 80-something games which is decent.

[UK]

 

The White Sox are under .500. Every Chicago sports team is the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked.

 

They are a good team though.

 

Meh, they’re going to win 80-something games which is decent.

 

The White Sox are currently the rare example of the manager actually having an impact on their overall record (of course it's in a negative manner).

[We Got The Whole 9]

Pip's eldest son died, only 33 years old. Cause of death unknown.

[WrigleyField 22]

Pip's eldest son died, only 33 years old. Cause of death unknown.

Damn. I was just thinking that tomorrow is my birthday and I turn "Scottie Pippen years old". Same age. Can't imagine.