Bears at Rams SNF on NBC 7:20 PM

[jersey cubs fan]

 

what?

I think he's worried if the Bears turn it around with Mitch they'll give him a dumb extension.

 

Exactly, when I re-read it didn't make sense to me either, should he show signs of moderate improvement in 2020, do not want the Bears fooled into giving him a financially crippling extension.

If he shows only moderate signs of improvement the team won't be that much better and I would expect them not to give him an extension.

[gflore34]

I feel like if Nagy is involved in picking the next attempt at a franchise QB, he'll turn it into some weird sideshow where he comes up with convoluted ways to measure who is the exact opposite of Trubisky in every way.

They'll try to find the Mahomes-iest pick they can, but just end up with some Air Raid guy with a lots a confidence but 1/3 the arm talent.

 

A guy confident QB with a lesser arm is still an improvement over Mitch, no?

[gflore34]

I think he's worried if the Bears turn it around with Mitch they'll give him a dumb extension.

 

Exactly, when I re-read it didn't make sense to me either, should he show signs of moderate improvement in 2020, do not want the Bears fooled into giving him a financially crippling extension.

If he shows only moderate signs of improvement the team won't be that much better and I would expect them not to give him an extension.

 

Logically your statement is correct however, we're talking about Pace, who invested so much in Mitch, don't you think he'd find any excuse to re-up. Rather, than finally admit his mistake and move on?

[WrigleyField 22]

 

Exactly, when I re-read it didn't make sense to me either, should he show signs of moderate improvement in 2020, do not want the Bears fooled into giving him a financially crippling extension.

If he shows only moderate signs of improvement the team won't be that much better and I would expect them not to give him an extension.

 

Logically your statement is correct however, we're talking about Pace, who invested so much in Mitch, don't you think he'd find any excuse to re-up. Rather, than finally admit his mistake and move on?

Would need to check his conviction-o-meter

[WrigleyField 22]

I feel like if Nagy is involved in picking the next attempt at a franchise QB, he'll turn it into some weird sideshow where he comes up with convoluted ways to measure who is the exact opposite of Trubisky in every way.

They'll try to find the Mahomes-iest pick they can, but just end up with some Air Raid guy with a lots a confidence but 1/3 the arm talent.

 

A guy confident QB with a lesser arm is still an improvement over Mitch, no?

I present Baker Mayfield.

 

Maybe it's a Minshew who might also be a junky QB despite the hot start.

[jersey cubs fan]

 

Exactly, when I re-read it didn't make sense to me either, should he show signs of moderate improvement in 2020, do not want the Bears fooled into giving him a financially crippling extension.

If he shows only moderate signs of improvement the team won't be that much better and I would expect them not to give him an extension.

 

Logically your statement is correct however, we're talking about Pace, who invested so much in Mitch, don't you think he'd find any excuse to re-up. Rather, than finally admit his mistake and move on?

No.

 

I think he'd love to see Mitch take a leap and he'd extend him with glee. But if Mitch struggles I think he'd be ready to move on, just like he was with Kevin White.

 

I don't want to be in the I hope they don't make the playoffs and fool them business. If Mitch plays well enough to bring them back into the playoffs next year, great. He almost certainly will not, but great anyway.

 

To expand on this a bit, there is no doubt in my mind that Nagy is frustrated with Mitch. I cannot imagine a still frustrated Nagy signing on to a Mitch extension if Mitch isn't much better. Nagy would probably love to draft his guy, with Pace, and start fresh if they get that opportunity.

 

I also don't think ownership would be the least bit disappointed if Pace/Nagy told them they decided not to spend $100+ million on a Mitch extension and think they'd be better off drafting somebody new.

Edited November 19, 2019 by jersey cubs fan

[minnesotacubsfan]

if Mitch improves to the point that he gets in line for an extension, he will have played very well. I don't think Pace and CO are going to extend him if he's just so-so.

[WrigleyField 22]

if Mitch improves to the point that he gets in line for an extension, he will have played very well. I don't think Pace and CO are going to extend him if he's just so-so.

Check out my last post on the previous page. How do you think Pace handles that hypothetical?

[minnesotacubsfan]

if Mitch improves to the point that he gets in line for an extension, he will have played very well. I don't think Pace and CO are going to extend him if he's just so-so.

Check out my last post on the previous page. How do you think Pace handles that hypothetical?

 

a 99 passer rating and nearly 4000 yards would likely be an extension. That's not Aaron Rodgers level, but its good and a deal that doesn't cripple the Bears financially wont stop them from also drafting another QB if they want. That's what I would hope they do. If the concern is that Pace will inflate his chest, yell "I told you so" and bump Mitch up to top 3 status for QB salary, no thanks.

 

fwiw, If I thought Mitch was going to put up those numbers consistently, I'd sign him long term tomorrow. You can win with a QB playing at that level.

[WrigleyField 22]

if Mitch improves to the point that he gets in line for an extension, he will have played very well. I don't think Pace and CO are going to extend him if he's just so-so.

Check out my last post on the previous page. How do you think Pace handles that hypothetical?

 

a 99 passer rating and nearly 4000 yards would likely be an extension. That's not Aaron Rodgers level, but its good and a deal that doesn't cripple the Bears financially wont stop them from also drafting another QB if they want. That's what I would hope they do. If the concern is that Pace will inflate his chest, yell "I told you so" and bump Mitch up to top 3 status for QB salary, no thanks.

 

fwiw, If I thought Mitch was going to put up those numbers consistently, I'd sign him long term tomorrow. You can win with a QB playing at that level.

But consistency would be the huge question mark. You'd have two total crap years and two nice years but not even top 10 type years. And coming off a season like that, if it's not a top 3 extension it would probably be at least top 5 with a significant guaranteed deal.

 

If he didn't become consistent then, the those first few extension years become rough to build around.

 

Luckily I think the hypothetical is very optimistic. More likely would be what happens if Mitch is the QB next year and settles into a high 80s low 90s type passer but you still haven't drafted his replacement. Is there a shorter term deal you can sign him to to bridge until you draft and develop a replacement? Or he's a low 80s type passer again and maybe the D will regress and you sneak tank for Lawrence.

[minnesotacubsfan]

Check out my last post on the previous page. How do you think Pace handles that hypothetical?

 

a 99 passer rating and nearly 4000 yards would likely be an extension. That's not Aaron Rodgers level, but its good and a deal that doesn't cripple the Bears financially wont stop them from also drafting another QB if they want. That's what I would hope they do. If the concern is that Pace will inflate his chest, yell "I told you so" and bump Mitch up to top 3 status for QB salary, no thanks.

 

fwiw, If I thought Mitch was going to put up those numbers consistently, I'd sign him long term tomorrow. You can win with a QB playing at that level.

But consistency would be the huge question mark. You'd have two total crap years and two nice years but not even top 10 type years. And coming off a season like that, if it's not a top 3 extension it would probably be at least top 5 with a significant guaranteed deal.

 

If he didn't become consistent then, the those first few extension years become rough to build around.

 

Luckily I think the hypothetical is very optimistic. More likely would be what happens if Mitch is the QB next year and settles into a high 80s low 90s type passer but you still haven't drafted his replacement. Is there a shorter term deal you can sign him to to bridge until you draft and develop a replacement? Or he's a low 80s type passer again and maybe the D will regress and you sneak tank for Lawrence.

 

consistency is a question if nothing else changes, but, say the o-line goes through a positive makeover and his numbers bounce upwards, I think you can take the numbers as reliable. Right now, his regression is likely #1)him and/or #2) environmental issues. Outside of Mitch, the o-line looks like the typical suspect, dropped passes the second most likely suspect. Fix #2), and you probably get an accurate read on #1). If its a big increase in play, there you go. If its not, then he's horsefeathers. That's how I would approach this off season since you are stuck with Mitch next year anyway.

[WrigleyField 22]

Was thinking of what could come out of Nagy...

 

True or False:

Jason Garrett is Matt Nagy's upper ceiling as a coach.

 

Garrett was a young up and coming offensive coach who's teams were pretty average (0.500 record, 2 15th ranked scoring Os) his first two years, with a pretty good QB in Romo running things, to boot.

 

Before his third full season he gave up the play calling reigns and now is the only O heas coach I can think of who doesn't regularly call his own plays (Reid has given up play calling to mix it up before, but regularly still calls plays). Since he handed over play calling duties they are 62-44 and have had 4 top 5 scoring offenses, including this year so far. They were division Champs 3 times as well and are on pace for a 4th in 2019. But they've also failed to make it past the divisional round.

 

I bring this up since Nagy seems so awful as a play caller. Could he give up the reigns to that and be an effective head coach or not? I tend to say no, but was looking for examples, which is why I came up with Garret. The lack of playoff success aside, 3 or 4 division Champs in 6 years would be something the Bears haven't seen since, what the 80s? Would you be pleased with that outcome 5 or 6 years from now?

[raw]

The Bears have too much talent to tank. They've gone over 300 yards 1 time in 10 games and have had a chance in the final 3 minutes in all but the Saints game. The problem with competition for Trubisky is that "competition" isn't good enough. You need a guy better than Trubisky, and probably clearly. Otherwise the alternative is Trubisky either winning the job or that guy getting hurt and Trubisky inheriting the job. Even if he plays like last year, we saw that wasn't good enough to be a real contender, and it's even less effective now as the defense isn't as dominant as it was back then.

 

And I don't think Pace and Nagy want to deal with even the possibility of having this season happen again.

[jersey cubs fan]

Even if he plays like last year, we saw that wasn't good enough to be a real contender, and it's even less effective now as the defense isn't as dominant as it was back then.

 

The Bears were a real contender last year.

[minnesotacubsfan]

I've never looked that closely at Garret since he hasn't had the playoff success, but they play in arguably the weakest division in the NFC. If Aaron Rodgers decide to hang up his cleats and move on to wine making, maybe Nagy surpasses Garret, but he has a ways to go to learn situational play calling to be sure. It also doesn't help he gets tanked by QB regression and cursed PK's. if Parkey hits that FG last year in the playoffs, Nagy might already be at Garrets presumed plateau.

[jersey cubs fan]

Nagy leaves a lot to be desired but I don't see why he can't improve at the job.

 

Bad QB, bad offensive line and impactless running backs are a tough thing to succeed with. People criticize them for not running up the middle enough when they can't gain a yard to save their lives.

[minnesotacubsfan]

The Bears have too much talent to tank. They've gone over 300 yards 1 time in 10 games and have had a chance in the final 3 minutes in all but the Saints game. The problem with competition for Trubisky is that "competition" isn't good enough. You need a guy better than Trubisky, and probably clearly. Otherwise the alternative is Trubisky either winning the job or that guy getting hurt and Trubisky inheriting the job. Even if he plays like last year, we saw that wasn't good enough to be a real contender, and it's even less effective now as the defense isn't as dominant as it was back then.

 

And I don't think Pace and Nagy want to deal with even the possibility of having this season happen again.

 

I'm not sure what your conclusion is, keep Mitch or ditch mitch? I think unless you are in love with a QB that drops to you in the second round this draft, you have to use those picks to revamp the o-line.Even if Mitch continues to tank you at least have the building blocks to surround the QB who takes over after Mitch leaves, HC and GM be damned. Reaching for a QB in this draft would be a huge mistake.

[minnesotacubsfan]

Nagy leaves a lot to be desired but I don't see why he can't improve at the job.

 

Bad QB, bad offensive line and impactless running backs are a tough thing to succeed with. People criticize them for not running up the middle enough when they can't gain a yard to save their lives.

 

yes, but running Cohen between the tackles doesnt help either, and thats all Nagy

[Hairyducked Idiot]

The Bears have too much talent to tank. They've gone over 300 yards 1 time in 10 games and have had a chance in the final 3 minutes in all but the Saints game. The problem with competition for Trubisky is that "competition" isn't good enough. You need a guy better than Trubisky, and probably clearly. Otherwise the alternative is Trubisky either winning the job or that guy getting hurt and Trubisky inheriting the job. Even if he plays like last year, we saw that wasn't good enough to be a real contender, and it's even less effective now as the defense isn't as dominant as it was back then.

 

And I don't think Pace and Nagy want to deal with even the possibility of having this season happen again.

 

The 2018 Bears had too much talent to tank. The 2020 Bears? Eh.

 

I generally don't believe in intentional tanking. If you're bad enough to need it, it takes care of itself. The Bears have a pretty good chance of taking care of it themselves.

[WrigleyField 22]

The Bears have too much talent to tank. They've gone over 300 yards 1 time in 10 games and have had a chance in the final 3 minutes in all but the Saints game. The problem with competition for Trubisky is that "competition" isn't good enough. You need a guy better than Trubisky, and probably clearly. Otherwise the alternative is Trubisky either winning the job or that guy getting hurt and Trubisky inheriting the job. Even if he plays like last year, we saw that wasn't good enough to be a real contender, and it's even less effective now as the defense isn't as dominant as it was back then.

 

And I don't think Pace and Nagy want to deal with even the possibility of having this season happen again.

As bad as Mitch has been, I'm not sure how many unquestionable upgradres there are. I think the likes of Mariota, Winston, Dalton, and Keenum would all be coming into something of a competition, even if they were lined up with starters on day 1 of training camp. Bridgewater would probably be the only realistic one of available FA. Obviously no rookie would either.

[WrigleyField 22]

Nagy leaves a lot to be desired but I don't see why he can't improve at the job.

 

Bad QB, bad offensive line and impactless running backs are a tough thing to succeed with. People criticize them for not running up the middle enough when they can't gain a yard to save their lives.

Obviously he has capacity to improve, but is it "improve as a play caller or bust"? Could he just give up the part and be a successful head coach still?

 

Going back to his short stint calling plays in KC theres a pretty established history of questioning his play calling acumen. It's enough to sink him by next year at this point if he doesn't show that improvement quickly.

[raw]

Even if he plays like last year, we saw that wasn't good enough to be a real contender, and it's even less effective now as the defense isn't as dominant as it was back then.

 

The Bears were a real contender last year.

 

True, but they didn't really contend...by winning a playoff game.

[raw]

The Bears have too much talent to tank. They've gone over 300 yards 1 time in 10 games and have had a chance in the final 3 minutes in all but the Saints game. The problem with competition for Trubisky is that "competition" isn't good enough. You need a guy better than Trubisky, and probably clearly. Otherwise the alternative is Trubisky either winning the job or that guy getting hurt and Trubisky inheriting the job. Even if he plays like last year, we saw that wasn't good enough to be a real contender, and it's even less effective now as the defense isn't as dominant as it was back then.

 

And I don't think Pace and Nagy want to deal with even the possibility of having this season happen again.

 

The 2018 Bears had too much talent to tank. The 2020 Bears? Eh.

 

I generally don't believe in intentional tanking. If you're bad enough to need it, it takes care of itself. The Bears have a pretty good chance of taking care of it themselves.

 

Even with the most abysmal offense in the league, the Bears are 4-6 with back-to-back games coming up against inferior teams. The 2020 Bears won't be much worse than the 2019 Bears talent-wise, and almost certainly would be better at QB by either Mitch improving or simply having more or better viable options.

[raw]

The Bears have too much talent to tank. They've gone over 300 yards 1 time in 10 games and have had a chance in the final 3 minutes in all but the Saints game. The problem with competition for Trubisky is that "competition" isn't good enough. You need a guy better than Trubisky, and probably clearly. Otherwise the alternative is Trubisky either winning the job or that guy getting hurt and Trubisky inheriting the job. Even if he plays like last year, we saw that wasn't good enough to be a real contender, and it's even less effective now as the defense isn't as dominant as it was back then.

 

And I don't think Pace and Nagy want to deal with even the possibility of having this season happen again.

 

I'm not sure what your conclusion is, keep Mitch or ditch mitch? I think unless you are in love with a QB that drops to you in the second round this draft, you have to use those picks to revamp the o-line.Even if Mitch continues to tank you at least have the building blocks to surround the QB who takes over after Mitch leaves, HC and GM be damned. Reaching for a QB in this draft would be a huge mistake.

 

I think you have to ditch Mitch. While I don't think he would be as bad next year as he's been this year, he's definitely not the answer. Best case is a 2018 repeat where he figures out how to use his legs again. But I think he's lost the support of his teammates. They obviously won't say anything publicly, but you can see the body language on the field. Lackluster effort for high throws, stopping on routes when he misses them flash open, nobody moving down the field when he scrambles out of a pocket that he could have stood in. Nagy clearly can't do what he wants with the offense, and he's getting flack from the press and fans about his offense and playcalling. I just don't see Nagy being very willing to go into 2020 with his future tied to a QB that he has to dumb down his playbook for. Because after all, if Trubisky is here again and the offense struggles again with a half-filled play sheet....the offensive minded head coach is going to certainly take a lot of the heat for not having a good offense and not developing a talented QB.

 

I don't think Pace can go to ownership after 2 bad years and say, "Hey, I built up the rest of the team, let me get 1 more shot at QB" when the QB he picked is the reason for 2 bad years. And i don't think Nagy has been good enough to survive a GM change.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

The 2020 Bears will almost certainly be less talented, because life is a decaying march to death and everyone in the NFL just gets more beat up and bad the more football they play. You need a steady flow of fresh, talented bodies that they can't provide because of their missing draft picks, and if you bring in a QB who is definitely better than Trubisky you're going to have to weaken the starters at several other positions by either cutting guys or signing equal replacements for your UFAs.

 

But don't mind me, I'm just doom bonering.