4-3-2019 - 6:20p CDT - Braves scrimmaging against YMCA pickup team

[Gilby]

Can we do one of those trades that the Dodgers do every other year and have a team just take on our bad, expensive players please

[17 Seconds]

Can we do one of those trades that the Dodgers do every other year and have a team just take on our bad, expensive players please

 

it's funny because that's how theo was let off the hook after leaving boston, except the dodgers were on the other side

[Cubswin11]

Jon wants the 1 post game beer rule to be abolished

 

[17 Seconds]

Jon wants the 1 post game beer rule to be abolished

 

 

"we need to try harder to start the season"

 

"oh no, we're trying too hard"

[Deeg]

Unique strategy the Cubs have employed with the bullpen, targeting guys who neither throw really hard or have good command.

[r_mack]

Unique strategy the Cubs have employed with the bullpen, targeting guys who neither throw really hard or have good command.

Wonder when they'll push out the 3rd pitching coach in 3 years

[Proven Veteran]

So, no bullpen and not a single starting quality outfielder on the team. Looking real good.

[Andy]

So, no bullpen and not a single starting quality outfielder on the team. Looking real good.

Letting division rivals take 2 of the 3 good outfielders the Marlins were giving away for no good reason, while having maybe 2/3 of one good hitting outfielder himself (Schwarber vs RHP), is probably going down as the 'in retrospect, it was all over then' moment for this regime.

[Sammy Sofa]

I mean, Ozuna to the Cardinals is technically annoying, but it just doesn't even compare to how much it sucks that Yelich ended up with the Brewers. Even without him stepping up to what he is now, he was absolutely perfect on so many levels for what this Cubs team needed (and still desperately needs). They should have been willing to give up anyone short of Bryant to get him.

[Flames24Rulz]

and based on the return the Marlins got for those guys, the Cubs really wouldn't have had to give up that much to get either Yelich or Ozuna (or even Stanton for that matter, besides taking on that contract). to me, it was clear in 2017 that the OF needed some shaking up and instead of doing anything about it, they let their two biggest rivals get better while they stood pat.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Ozuna is not good and is actively broken, and Yelich was traded after Happ and Almora had just combined for 3 WAR in just over a full season's worth of PA. I was a fan of trading for Yelich, but IIRC the types of prospects Miami wanted didn't match up perfectly and I get not going whole hog for him with the offense in the excellent shape it was in at the time. Ozuna/Yelich is not high at all on the list of mistakes/missed opportunities that led to the current moment.

[Sammy Sofa]

and based on the return the Marlins got for those guys, the Cubs really wouldn't have had to give up that much to get either Yelich or Ozuna (or even Stanton for that matter, besides taking on that contract). to me, it was clear in 2017 that the OF needed some shaking up and instead of doing anything about it, they let their two biggest rivals get better while they stood pat.

 

In hindsight I unfortunately get why they didn't even try with Stanton; I don't believe for a second that the budget issues were any kind of surprise for anyone running the team. But, man, even pre-worldbeater Yelich was SO perfect with his contract and the position he played and how valuable he was with the bat. That's where I start veering into getting annoyed along the lines of the FO being too enamored with "their guys" or being too in love with the idea of a cheap, clever platoon that MIGHT work.

[JennieGarthAlgar]

Yelich was traded after Happ and Almora had just combined for 3 WAR in just over a full season's worth of PA.

 

Wouldve been an ideal time to sell high on those guys in hindsight, huh

[Sammy Sofa]

I honestly can't tell if TT's assessment of that platoon is supposed to be praising them or a knock against them.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

I honestly can't tell if TT's assessment of that platoon is supposed to be praising them or a knock against them.

 

With Schwarber they had 3 outfielders playing at a 3ish win level plus Heyward and Bryant/Zobrist(since Russell hadn't cratered both on and off the field). I'm always down for adding really good hitters(you can find a dozen or so posts from me that offseason suggesting to trade for Yelich), but idea that there was a gaping need for an outfielder post-2017 isn't true either.

[Sammy Sofa]

Not a gaping hole necessarily, sure, but enough of a clear and obvious upgrade, IMO, that it was the kind of move a so-called wonderkid FO or whatever the horsefeathers should be all over. I mean, just for not having to manage the whole thing optimally between 6 guys regularly for not THAT much more money alone it seems so obvious.

 

Preferring to go with that over Stanton? I get it; I don't like it, but I get it.

 

Preferring to go with that over getting Yelich? Sorry; that just seems pointlessly dumb and stubborn, even prior to God mode Yelich.

[Transmogrified Tiger]

Not a gaping hole necessarily, sure, but enough of a clear and obvious upgrade, IMO, that it was the kind of move a so-called wonderkid FO or whatever the horsefeathers should be all over. I mean, just for not having to manage the whole thing optimally between 6 guys regularly for not THAT much more money alone it seems so obvious.

 

Preferring to go with that over Stanton? I get it; I don't like it, but I get it.

 

Preferring to go with that over getting Yelich? Sorry; that just seems pointlessly dumb and stubborn, even prior to God mode Yelich.

 

It's a question of priorities, at the time did it make more sense to empty the org of its trade assets and some payroll flexibility to get Yelich when the team had plenty of offense even when you don't count on the outfielders(Bryant, Rizzo, Contreras, Baez, Zobrist)? Or did it make more sense to focus on replacing Arrieta, Lackey, and Davis from the pitching staff where the incumbents were much less strong? I get the idea around trading Yelich(again, I voted for it), but the idea that the alternative was inexcusable is revisionist history.

[Cubswin11]

Not a gaping hole necessarily, sure, but enough of a clear and obvious upgrade, IMO, that it was the kind of move a so-called wonderkid FO or whatever the horsefeathers should be all over. I mean, just for not having to manage the whole thing optimally between 6 guys regularly for not THAT much more money alone it seems so obvious.

 

Preferring to go with that over Stanton? I get it; I don't like it, but I get it.

 

Preferring to go with that over getting Yelich? Sorry; that just seems pointlessly dumb and stubborn, even prior to God mode Yelich.

 

It's a question of priorities, at the time did it make more sense to empty the org of its trade assets and some payroll flexibility to get Yelich when the team had plenty of offense even when you don't count on the outfielders(Bryant, Rizzo, Contreras, Baez, Zobrist)? Or did it make more sense to focus on replacing Arrieta, Lackey, and Davis from the pitching staff where the incumbents were much less strong? I get the idea around trading Yelich(again, I voted for it), but the idea that the alternative was inexcusable is revisionist history.

We also don’t know what the ask was, it’s entirely possible there just wasn’t really a fit or the ask was like Javy, Happ or Willy and other stuff (which I can understand not doing that). I absolutely wanted him too, I think I even started the thread on making him our main target last offseason before he was even known to be available. I would’ve been fine doing just about any trade to get him.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

Not a gaping hole necessarily, sure, but enough of a clear and obvious upgrade, IMO, that it was the kind of move a so-called wonderkid FO or whatever the horsefeathers should be all over. I mean, just for not having to manage the whole thing optimally between 6 guys regularly for not THAT much more money alone it seems so obvious.

 

Preferring to go with that over Stanton? I get it; I don't like it, but I get it.

 

Preferring to go with that over getting Yelich? Sorry; that just seems pointlessly dumb and stubborn, even prior to God mode Yelich.

 

It's a question of priorities, at the time did it make more sense to empty the org of its trade assets and some payroll flexibility to get Yelich when the team had plenty of offense even when you don't count on the outfielders(Bryant, Rizzo, Contreras, Baez, Zobrist)? Or did it make more sense to focus on replacing Arrieta, Lackey, and Davis from the pitching staff where the incumbents were much less strong? I get the idea around trading Yelich(again, I voted for it), but the idea that the alternative was inexcusable is revisionist history.

We also don’t know what the ask was, it’s entirely possible there just wasn’t really a fit or the ask was like Javy, Happ or Willy and other stuff (which I can understand not doing that).

 

Yeah, and I also think Lewis Brinson was more highly regraded than the Happs of the world and would have taken more of the Javy types.

[Cubswin11]

 

It's a question of priorities, at the time did it make more sense to empty the org of its trade assets and some payroll flexibility to get Yelich when the team had plenty of offense even when you don't count on the outfielders(Bryant, Rizzo, Contreras, Baez, Zobrist)? Or did it make more sense to focus on replacing Arrieta, Lackey, and Davis from the pitching staff where the incumbents were much less strong? I get the idea around trading Yelich(again, I voted for it), but the idea that the alternative was inexcusable is revisionist history.

We also don’t know what the ask was, it’s entirely possible there just wasn’t really a fit or the ask was like Javy, Happ or Willy and other stuff (which I can understand not doing that).

 

Yeah, and I also think Lewis Brinson was more highly regraded than the Happs of the world and would have taken more of the Javy types.

Yeah, which is kinda crazy because Lewis Brinson sucks and I never got the hype of him being a top, top prospect. He’s actually older than Happ too and Happ had major league success too while Brinson was an unknown (which I know let’s team dream on potential).

[Sammy Sofa]

Not a gaping hole necessarily, sure, but enough of a clear and obvious upgrade, IMO, that it was the kind of move a so-called wonderkid FO or whatever the horsefeathers should be all over. I mean, just for not having to manage the whole thing optimally between 6 guys regularly for not THAT much more money alone it seems so obvious.

 

Preferring to go with that over Stanton? I get it; I don't like it, but I get it.

 

Preferring to go with that over getting Yelich? Sorry; that just seems pointlessly dumb and stubborn, even prior to God mode Yelich.

 

It's a question of priorities, at the time did it make more sense to empty the org of its trade assets and some payroll flexibility to get Yelich when the team had plenty of offense even when you don't count on the outfielders(Bryant, Rizzo, Contreras, Baez, Zobrist)? Or did it make more sense to focus on replacing Arrieta, Lackey, and Davis from the pitching staff where the incumbents were much less strong? I get the idea around trading Yelich(again, I voted for it), but the idea that the alternative was inexcusable is revisionist history.

We also don’t know what the ask was, it’s entirely possible there just wasn’t really a fit or the ask was like Javy, Happ or Willy and other stuff (which I can understand not doing that). I absolutely wanted him too, I think I even started the thread on making him our main target last offseason before he was even known to be available. I would’ve been fine doing just about any trade to get him.

 

Post 2017, any of those 3 guys should have been easily, EASILY (IMO) on the table for someone like Yelich. Again, even pre-God mode Yelich had already shown he was much more of a sure bet (again, IMO) than any of those guys. Hell, Yelich had already essentially had 2 of Baez's 2018 season without having to be some kind of bizarre baseball freak amalgamation.

 

Plus I guess I don't understand the "focus on replacing the pitching staff part" via significant trade instead of trading for Yelich, since they didn't.

[Sammy Sofa]

 

It's a question of priorities, at the time did it make more sense to empty the org of its trade assets and some payroll flexibility to get Yelich when the team had plenty of offense even when you don't count on the outfielders(Bryant, Rizzo, Contreras, Baez, Zobrist)? Or did it make more sense to focus on replacing Arrieta, Lackey, and Davis from the pitching staff where the incumbents were much less strong? I get the idea around trading Yelich(again, I voted for it), but the idea that the alternative was inexcusable is revisionist history.

We also don’t know what the ask was, it’s entirely possible there just wasn’t really a fit or the ask was like Javy, Happ or Willy and other stuff (which I can understand not doing that).

 

Yeah, and I also think Lewis Brinson was more highly regraded than the Happs of the world and would have taken more of the Javy types.

 

Javy types SHOULD net you someone like Yelich. Being in the Cubs' position and instead relying on Javy types is something I just don't understand.

[Cubswin11]

 

It's a question of priorities, at the time did it make more sense to empty the org of its trade assets and some payroll flexibility to get Yelich when the team had plenty of offense even when you don't count on the outfielders(Bryant, Rizzo, Contreras, Baez, Zobrist)? Or did it make more sense to focus on replacing Arrieta, Lackey, and Davis from the pitching staff where the incumbents were much less strong? I get the idea around trading Yelich(again, I voted for it), but the idea that the alternative was inexcusable is revisionist history.

We also don’t know what the ask was, it’s entirely possible there just wasn’t really a fit or the ask was like Javy, Happ or Willy and other stuff (which I can understand not doing that). I absolutely wanted him too, I think I even started the thread on making him our main target last offseason before he was even known to be available. I would’ve been fine doing just about any trade to get him.

 

Post 2017, any of those 3 guys should have been easily, EASILY (IMO) on the table for someone like Yelich. Again, even pre-God mode Yelich had already shown he was much more of a sure bet (again, IMO) than any of those guys. Hell, Yelich had already essentially had 2 of Baez's 2018 season without having to be some kind of bizarre baseball freak amalgamation.

 

Plus I guess I don't understand the "focus on replacing the pitching staff part" via significant trade instead of trading for Yelich, since they didn't.

Sure, if the ask was just Javy I would’ve done it. My guess was that it would taken multiple of Javy, Schwarbs, Willy, and Happ and I get why you don’t do that. I don’t necessarily agree with it but I get it. And yeah I don’t get the pitching thing because we just spent on that at that point on.

[Sammy Sofa]

Sure, if the ask was just Javy I would’ve done it. My guess was that it would taken multiple of Javy, Schwarbs, Willy, and Happ and I get why you don’t do that. I don’t necessarily agree with it but I get it. And yeah I don’t get the pitching thing because we just spent on that at that point on.

 

Personally, I think it would have taken a couple of those guys and then some prospects, and I would have been than fine with the main duo being any combination of them. Now, I'm a baseball idiot, but I don't think any pair of those guys being replaced the Yelich puts the 2018 Cubs at the same or worse than they were in 2017. I think the most valuable pairing at the time would have been Baez and Contreras, and a FO supposedly as ahead of the curve as this one should have been really horsefeathering aware early on that between catchers typically having a pretty short shelf life AND Contreras needs to hit a ton to offset his framing that he was a prime sell high candidate.

 

Instead we just have him and fuckingCaratini AND the current horsefeathering OF, which feels insane to type. How have they horsefeathering botched so many aspects of this team SO spectacularly in such a short frame of time?

[Cubswin11]

Sure, if the ask was just Javy I would’ve done it. My guess was that it would taken multiple of Javy, Schwarbs, Willy, and Happ and I get why you don’t do that. I don’t necessarily agree with it but I get it. And yeah I don’t get the pitching thing because we just spent on that at that point on.

 

Personally, I think it would have taken a couple of those guys and then some prospects, and I would have been than fine with the main duo being any combination of them. Now, I'm a baseball idiot, but I don't think any pair of those guys being replaced the Yelich puts the 2018 Cubs at the same or worse than they were in 2017. I think the most valuable pairing at the time would have been Baez and Contreras, and a FO supposedly as ahead of the curve as this one should have been really horsefeathering aware early on that between catchers typically having a pretty short shelf life AND Contreras needs to hit a ton to offset his framing that he was a prime sell high candidate.

I think that’s a bit revisionist on Willy, remember the 2017 he was coming off of. I wouldn’t be surprised if he was pretty much untouchable last offseason. Also remember Yelich would’ve been Chili balled to death so we never would’ve seen this current player of him and also I wouldn’t Theo was probably still going about things thinking he had the budget room for Bryce so he didn’t go all in on a trade...... horsefeathers everything.