Bears 2018 Offseason: Matt Nagy Hired as Head Coach

[Old Style]

Are the Bears really going to use the #8 pick on a guard? Maybe I'm just meatballing here but that seems like a not so wise use of a pick that high.

[David]

Are the Bears really going to use the #8 pick on a guard? Maybe I'm just meatballing here but that seems like a not so wise use of a pick that high.

 

 

i don't think he's going to get to them. but he's really horsefeathering good.

[UMFan83]

Apparently Jordan Howard has removed all his Bears related pictures from Instagram per Twitter

[Splendid Splinter]

Are the Bears really going to use the #8 pick on a guard? Maybe I'm just meatballing here but that seems like a not so wise use of a pick that high.

 

Here's my question to you. Would you draft Nelson if he could have the same trajectory as David DeCastro, but at LG? 2 1st team All Pro, 1 2nd team, and 3 straight Pro Bowls in his first 6 years.

 

I think a lot of people are expecting that he will be as good as DeCastro, if not better. We'll see if that's true or not in a couple years. I believe he will be so I think he's worth picking in the top 10.

[KingCubsFan]

Are the Bears really going to use the #8 pick on a guard? Maybe I'm just meatballing here but that seems like a not so wise use of a pick that high.

 

Here's my question to you. Would you draft Nelson if he could have the same trajectory as David DeCastro, but at LG? 2 1st team All Pro, 1 2nd team, and 3 straight Pro Bowls in his first 6 years.

 

I think a lot of people are expecting that he will be as good as DeCastro, if not better. We'll see if that's true or not in a couple years. I believe he will be so I think he's worth picking in the top 10.

I think he’ll step in and immediately be a top 5 guard in the NFL. As a Notre Dame fan, I think he was much, much better than Zack Martin in college, and Martin has been excellent for the Cowboys. And I’m not trying to be bias as an ND fan. FWIW, I don’t think McGlinchy will be that good in the NFL.

[We Got The Whole 9]

Apparently Jordan Howard has removed all his Bears related pictures from Instagram per Twitter

I saw somebody say he also removed his college and HS stuff as well. Maybe he's stating his athletics don't define him?

[Old Style]

Apparently Jordan Howard has removed all his Bears related pictures from Instagram per Twitter

I saw somebody say he also removed his college and HS stuff as well. Maybe he's stating his athletics don't define him?

Apparently he's telling friends to expect a trade soon. No idea what Pace is thinking here.

[Bertz]

Relevant to the Nelson discussion:

 

https://www.theringer.com/2018/4/5/17200244/quenton-nelson-notre-dame-draft-prospect-top-five-pick

 

Offensive line nerds have been gushing about Nelson for months, and their outpouring of love starts with his uncommon mean streak. Plenty of offensive linemen play with nastiness and aggression, but Nelson takes it to an entirely different level. It almost feels like each defender has personally wronged him, and now he must exact his revenge. Every other play he’s on the field resembles the third act of Unforgiven.

[UMFan83]

Apparently Jordan Howard has removed all his Bears related pictures from Instagram per Twitter

I saw somebody say he also removed his college and HS stuff as well. Maybe he's stating his athletics don't define him?

Apparently he's telling friends to expect a trade soon. No idea what Pace is thinking here.

 

Eh lets see what he gets for him before judging it.

[David]

Apparently Jordan Howard has removed all his Bears related pictures from Instagram per Twitter

I saw somebody say he also removed his college and HS stuff as well. Maybe he's stating his athletics don't define him?

Apparently he's telling friends to expect a trade soon. No idea what Pace is thinking here.

 

I couldn't really be all that bothered if they trade a running back and get something of value back for him. Especially one who can't catch (yes, he's very damn good at running but he's still a running back who can't catch in 2018). They have short shelf lives, and it's not a hard position to fill. All that together and I'm not gonna lose my mind over trading him.

 

That said, unless I missed something else, I think what you heard is based off an incarcerated bob tweet, so take that for what nothing it's worth. Rapoport tweeted that there's nothing going on with Howard.

[David]

Are the Bears really going to use the #8 pick on a guard? Maybe I'm just meatballing here but that seems like a not so wise use of a pick that high.

 

I'm with this. Don't the Bears have CB issues? 8 is a great spot for Denzel Ward.

 

They could be better, but I wouldn't deem it one of their positions of need at this point, no. Fuller and Amukamara are solid.

[Old Style]

Are the Bears really going to use the #8 pick on a guard? Maybe I'm just meatballing here but that seems like a not so wise use of a pick that high.

 

I'm with this. Don't the Bears have CB issues? 8 is a great spot for Denzel Ward.

I'd love to get Roquan Smith the LB from Georgia.

[minnesotacubsfan]

Are the Bears really going to use the #8 pick on a guard? Maybe I'm just meatballing here but that seems like a not so wise use of a pick that high.

 

I'm with this. Don't the Bears have CB issues? 8 is a great spot for Denzel Ward.

I'd love to get Roquan Smith the LB from Georgia.

 

 

 

Nelson is worth taking with a 2nd year QB and new offense. Trading Howard (although i don’t love it) isn’t the end of the world either. But only if it somehow creates a net gain of Barkley. Whatever you do, dont get worse at rb

[Thrilho]

My thinking is that it's always best to use high picks on the highest value positions: QB, pass rusher, CB, and OT. Ward crushed the combine (4.32, 39" vert, 11'4" broad) and came in with very high scouting grades before that, which instantly makes me think stud.

 

Smith is a guy I think will be a stud, but it's hard to support drafting so high a non-pass rushing LB who also isn't a confirmable freak athlete. The 1.58 10 yrd split at ten pounds above his listed playing weight is impressive, the 9'9" broad jump at his pro day less so.

 

I don't know what to think about Nelson beyond hoping the Jets take one of Mayfield, Rosen, or Darnold.

For me, CB isn't one of those premium positions. In the past 5 drafts there has only been one selected in the top 5 and four selected in the top 10. The Bears only allowed one 100 yard receiver this year with this current secondary and not much pass rush. Sure, they've now got Fuller and Amukamara making good money, but coming into this year most people thought of CB as a pretty big deficiency. So I basically think you can get by with decent corners with good scheming.

 

I'm actually really happy they re-signed their CB duo so they don't have to take a corner in the first. I think it's a lock they take Nelson if he's there (and for good reason), but if he's not I'd be all for Edmunds. He is the confirmed freak type you're talking about, and I think they could put him at edge for this year to take advantage of his athletic ability while mitigating his awareness/inexperience issues. Then down the road they could move him to his natural inside LB spot, as they fill the edge role. Basically, I just want them to get the guard situation taken care off and load up as much as possible on edge rushers.

[Thrilho]

Oh and for anyone who wants to know more about Nelson or Edmunds, take a look at these two videos. This Brett Kollmann is the same guy who said last year before the draft that Eddie Jackson should be like the 15th overall pick.

 

 

[Derwood]

Are the Bears really going to use the #8 pick on a guard? Maybe I'm just meatballing here but that seems like a not so wise use of a pick that high.

 

I'm with this. Don't the Bears have CB issues? 8 is a great spot for Denzel Ward.

 

Many "experts" consider Nelson the best player in the draft

[Thrilho]

For me, CB isn't one of those premium positions. In the past 5 drafts there has only been one selected in the top 5 and four selected in the top 10. The Bears only allowed one 100 yard receiver this year with this current secondary and not much pass rush. Sure, they've now got Fuller and Amukamara making good money, but coming into this year most people thought of CB as a pretty big deficiency. So I basically think you can get by with decent corners with good scheming.

 

I'm actually really happy they re-signed their CB duo so they don't have to take a corner in the first. I think it's a lock they take Nelson if he's there (and for good reason), but if he's not I'd be all for Edmonds. He is the confirmed freak type you're talking about, and I think they could put him at edge for this year to take advantage of his athletic ability while mitigating his awareness/inexperience issues. Then down the road they could move him to his natural inside LB spot, as they fill the edge role. Basically, I just want them to get the guard situation taken care off and load up as much as possible on edge rushers.

 

CBs carry either the third or fourth highest franchise and transition tag prices, teams spend more on the position than any other by QB, and top CBs are among the highest paid players in the game this decade. Throw in that neither of the two starting CBs have been the picture of health and consistency as a pros (Fuller getting the tag anyway hints at the position's value), nickel and dime packages make up like 60% of defensive snaps this decade....While they haven't gone so high, they have been both the most drafted position overall and in the first round (10 combined, 5 apiece) the past two drafts, which is all I checked, and there's going to be another run this year in the first.

 

Another hot take - Edmunds is one of the most overrated players in the draft. First, I don't think teenagers belong in the NFL. That DT the Texans took at 10 however many years ago got his ass handed to him. Edmunds also just didn't test like a freak athlete.

Yeah, I had a feeling there would be a case to make for CBs using contracts but didn't feel like doing the research. The feeling on CBs is just my own, I just don't like spending top picks there.

 

As for Edmunds, time will tell. The video from Kollmann convinced me, but he's a polarizing. The comparison to Okoye is one I keep seeing on reddit, but I don't get the comp to a DT from a bunch of years ago just due to age. Also, on the not testing like a freak thing, I guess that's subjective. To me, a 6'4 250 lb LB who runs a 4.54 40 and can play well in coverage while getting 5.5 sacks as a 19 year old sounds good. But again, 19 year olds with awareness issues can be polarizing. I like the upside.

[MidoreX]

Are the Bears really going to use the #8 pick on a guard? Maybe I'm just meatballing here but that seems like a not so wise use of a pick that high.

 

I'm with this. Don't the Bears have CB issues? 8 is a great spot for Denzel Ward.

 

Many "experts" consider Nelson the best player in the draft

 

Hiestand being around makes me very comfortable potentially taking Nelson that high. He knows better than anyone what the kid is, and what he isn't. If they take him at 8, then hiestand signed off on it

[Thrilho]

Yeah, I had a feeling there would be a case to make for CBs using contracts but didn't feel like doing the research. The feeling on CBs is just my own, I just don't like spending top picks there.

 

As for Edmunds, time will tell. The video from Kollmann convinced me, but he's a polarizing. The comparison to Okoye is one I keep seeing on reddit, but I don't get the comp to a DT from a bunch of years ago just due to age. Also, on the not testing like a freak thing, I guess that's subjective. To me, a 6'4 250 lb LB who runs a 4.54 40 and can play well in coverage while getting 5.5 sacks as a 19 year old sounds good. But again, 19 year olds with awareness issues can be polarizing. I like the upside.

 

The explosition (vert, broad jump) and agility (the almight 3 cone) drills are much more telling than the 40 yard dash. I don't think there's anything subjective about that.

The subjective piece is taking the cone drill over game film.

 

Edit: Here's his NFL.com profile:

 

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/tremaine-edmunds?id=32462018-0002-5600-62d0-412c60099aca

 

"Edmunds combines elite size, speed and explosiveness into a productive, versatile linebacker package that will have evaluators salivating."

 

Comp: Urlacher

 

I'm not personally saying he's got Urlacher athletic ability, but NFL.com makes the comp and the video I linked seems to think he's got some generational athleticism. So maybe he sucks in the NFL, but I'm not the only one claiming he's got some good athleticism.

[Thrilho]

The subjective piece is taking the cone drill over game film.

 

Edit: Here's his NFL.com profile:

 

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/tremaine-edmunds?id=32462018-0002-5600-62d0-412c60099aca

 

"Edmunds combines elite size, speed and explosiveness into a productive, versatile linebacker package that will have evaluators salivating."

 

Comp: Urlacher

 

I'm not personally saying he's got Urlacher athletic ability, but NFL.com makes the comp and the video I linked seems to think he's got some generational athleticism. So maybe he sucks in the NFL, but I'm not the only one claiming he's got some good athleticism.

 

There seems to be be some confusion here over whar subjective actually means. The three cone drill is objective, there’s no opinion that goes into formulating the number. Comparing him to Urlacher is subjective, a matter of opinion.

Cool, I've only got so much time to dedicate to dancing with you over semantics before I morph into a huge eye roll emoji, but yes the three cone drill is an objective activity. The quality of the results of the cone drill and the general definition of testing like an athletic freak are subjective.

 

Also, on the not testing like a freak thing, I guess that's subjective. To me, a 6'4 250 lb LB who runs a 4.54 40 and can play well in coverage while getting 5.5 sacks as a 19 year old sounds good.

 

In the first part of this statement, I'm saying that it is subjective that he did or didn't test like a freak. In the second, I'm saying I don't care whether he did or didn't; his frame, speed, and production are good enough for me to think of him as pretty athletic and good. Maybe my first statement is wrong and he did test outside of some objective measure of a freak, but I stand by my second statement that it doesn't matter and that this conversation is boring.

[Thrilho]

There’s been plenty written on the most predictive combine exercises, tests meant to objectively measure athleticism, and the fact is that the 40 falls firmly behind the three cone (and the other drills I mentioned). Running fast in a straight line isn’t a great measure of outright athleticism, I honestly believe that this is common enough knowledge at this point. Objectively Edmunds isn’t a freak athlete. Obviously plenty of LBs have been successful without being freaks among freaks, but they go in the third or later rather than than top ten.

One nice thing about reddit's format is that this conversation could be collapsed and down voted a place where nobody would see it.

 

But if you're going to lecture me on the objective fact, I'd like you to point me to the source for your definition of a freak athlete. You say he's objectively not a freak athlete, but the title of that video I posted is "Tremaine Edmunds is a freak of nature...with one big flaw." So is this Brett Kollmann guy misstating an objective fact or is it possible that your definition of freak athlete just your definition of a freak athlete?

 

He didn't perform up to your standards at the combine and you don't like him as a prospect. That's cool. But he's probaby going to go in the top 10-12 picks and if he doesn't have much in the way of experience or awareness it's probably going to have a lot to do with the fact that an NFL decision maker disagreed with you on the level of his athleticism.

[Thrilho]

All I have to do is show he’s not?

 

https://3sigmaathlete.com/rankings/off-los-linebacker/

 

I know that doesn’t have quite the standing as the subjective opinion of a guy in a Youtube clip, but it covers what I need to cover.

 

Not once did I say I do not like Edmunds btw. I liked him plenty when he wasn’t a first rounder let alone a guy getting top ten talk. Or when he wasn’t refereed to as a freak. Plus I haven’t talked about his experience, he actually has more than Vander Esch a LB I have been talking up for his athleticism.

What part of this link are you pointing me to? I see the part where he's the tallest guy in the table, nearly the heaviest, he has the longest arms and the third fastest 40 time. I see the part where he's got a middling benchpress count of 19 and a not so good broad jump. Am I missing it or did he just not do a whole bunch of drills, including the 3 cone? It would certainly not be uncommon for a guy who is known as a good athlete to skip stuff like the cone drill simply because he doesn't want his value boiled down in this very way.

 

Let me know if it's in there and I'm missing it or if you can find some other link that has his agility measurables. I did find this blurb about top day three combine performers:

 

https://247sports.com/nfl/cleveland-browns/Bolt/NFL-Combine-Top-Performers-Day-Three-115839456

 

Virginia Tech LB Tremaine Edmunds - It is remarkable that Edmunds is only 19-years old. He is more physically impressive than any other linebacker in this draft class. He is a brick wall of a player. Combined with those physical characteristics, he ran a 4.54 in the 40-yard dash. His 40-yard dash mark ranked No. 5 among linebackers but each of the four who finished ahead of him weighed at least 17 pounds lighter. He looked great during on-field drills showing seamless transitions and a comfort catching the football, which was not common at his position group.

 

That last bit, the seamless transitions and coverage ability is where Kollmann gives him the most praise. He does play up the sideline to sideline speed, but he talks Edmunds up as a big linebacker who plays like a safety. He shows him covering slot receivers or running step for step down the sideline with running backs, and said that VT used him that way a lot. Being good at coverage seems like it would take a good bit of agility and quickness.

 

Ultimately, I don't know a lot about what constitutes freak athleticism. I could watch Edmunds tape and Bostic's tape and I can't really tell a difference. I'm going more on the opinions of guys I assume to be smarter than me. Like Brett Kollmann, guy who does this tape stuff for a living and called Eddie Jackson last year. Or Voch Lombardi, dude who told me Trubisky is good. Or NFL.com, aka pretty ok source for football information. Or basically any mock draft.

 

They're all saying he's got really good upside and is very athletic. From there, I want a guy who can rush the passer. Knowing that the Bears have a 3-4 genius as their DC, I'd like to take the biggest, fastest, freakiest dude possible and let the genius guy figure out the rest. He may be raw so it could take a while and he could be not that good. I was happy with the Floyd pick and he hasn't been great, but I still think we're going to be very happy with that pick. I think it would be great to get another really fast guy on the other side. But if they take Davenport or Smith or some other guy I'll be happy because it's a LB and smarter people than me picked him.

[Thrilho]

And I suppose if they get a corner or Fitzpatrick I should probably still be happy because they're getting a pretty good player and that would mean the Bears have some kind of other plan for edge and guard. Right now I just see those two as the only glaring holes on the roster, and I know edge is a pretty popular one so it'll be hard to fill late in the draft.

 

Edit: I'll just add here cause I've posted so much on this page. I saw your guy Vander Esch at the top of that table with the best pSPARQ athleticism score and he does look interesting. Basically same size as Edmunds, 4.65 40, 39.5 inch vert, solid enough at the other athleticism stuff to rate at the top of the list, in the pics he doesn't appear to be a Shea McClellin phantom 250.

 

Then, apparently Pete Prisco is mocking him to the Bears here with a Kuechly comp.

 

https://247sports.com/nfl/chicago-bears/Bolt/CBS-Sports-pegs-Leighton-Vander-Esch-to-Bears-in-mock-draft-117046788

 

I'd rather get a guy who can rush the passer but if they get a potential Kuechly I'd be cool with that.

Edited April 5, 2018 by Thrilho

[minnesotacubsfan]

All I have to do is show he’s not?

 

https://3sigmaathlete.com/rankings/off-los-linebacker/

 

I know that doesn’t have quite the standing as the subjective opinion of a guy in a Youtube clip, but it covers what I need to cover.

 

Not once did I say I do not like Edmunds btw. I liked him plenty when he wasn’t a first rounder let alone a guy getting top ten talk. Or when he wasn’t referred to as a freak. Plus I haven’t talked about his experience, he actually has more than Vander Esch a LB I have been talking up for his athleticism.

 

 

Im confused. Hes on the bottom of the list but doesnt have the “threesigmascore” or whatever the hell it is

[Thrilho]

I really think this boils down to where we were at earlier - which is that you seem to be confused about what makes an objective vs. subjective analysis. I am aware of what the hype is and all the positive subjective takes, don't really require links for that because I'm not arguing over their existence. Edmunds may turn out to be excellent but on paper he's not a freak athlete - as the link provided shows - nor does he play a premium position. If I'm risking a top 10 pick on that kind of player the choice would be someome like Smith from Georgia, who went into the year as a strong first rounder despite that and never faltered.

Got it. The assertions that Edmunds is not a freak athlete and OLB is not a premium position are objective fact and your link that is missing results for Edmunds in 4 out of 6 categories proves something but you refuse to explain how. Glad this is cleared up.