Bears 2018 Offseason: Matt Nagy Hired as Head Coach

[David]

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Edited April 6, 2018 by David

[Thrilho]

Thank you for that David. Trubisky is going to be so good.

[David]

Thank you for that David. Trubisky is going to be so good.

 

no problem...just added 2-3 more clips

[David]

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[We Got The Whole 9]

My hope is that we can work a deal with AZ for the 15 pick, their 3rd, and their 2019 1st. They need a franchise QB and they should be desperate enough to trade up for one, and their roster sucks enough that they should still be a bottom 10 team this year, if not bottom 5.

 

So I was thinking 8 and our higher 4th for those 3 picks. Thoughts?

[David]

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[minnesotacubsfan]

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It will be interesting to see if this pushes us into Ridley

[David]

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It will be interesting to see if this pushes us into Ridley

 

I'm damn near positive the Bears will match.

[David]

[raw]

It's funny to me how bad Trubisky's feet are in those videos. He's not pointing towards his throws consistently. Not stepping into throws that don't have interior pressure in his face. His feet are kind of a mess even when he makes good plays. The combination of improved footwork, monumentally better weapons to throw to, and going from the stone age to a real offense will give Trubisky the potential to be a top 5 QB in the very near future.

[Thrilho]

Pass rushing isn't Edmunds' game in the first place but, if it were, the lack of sacks (I think he had 10 in college) + non-elite workout would make him a massive gamble and terrible value in the top ten.

I'll skip the rest, because you're selling me on the fact that athletic measures are important and have been proven so. For whatever the rest of the discussion, can we just be clear that he didn't have a "non-elite workout," he skipped the drills? I get the value of analytics. But which argument are you making?

 

1. He didn't do the drills so we can assume he would have performed poorly in them

2. You've watched him play and you think he's not an elite athlete

3. Something else

 

If it's the first one, I don't get how you can make that assumption. But if that's it, I get what you're doing and I just disagree.

 

If it's number 2, there are a bunch of links that disagree. We don't have the analytics to validate his freakiness but evaluators are comping him to dudes like Urlacher who if I recall was a solid athlete. I haven't really seen how your prospect picking stands up over time, so I'm taking their analysis over yours.

 

Regarding the idea that he's a massive gamble because someone said he's an edge prospect but he doesn't have sacks etc. He's a 19 year old player who is a gifted athlete and was used in the way that helped his team the most. Same as Leonard Floyd covering receivers in college and not getting a whole lot of sacks because of it.

 

Edmunds was primarily an inside linebacker playing in space. But he was a big guy with long arms who could take on blockers. He had 10 sacks and 30.5 TFLs the last two years playing primarily as an inside linebacker. Vander Esch for instance, had 5 sacks and 12 TFLs. And all Vander Esch's were on his highlight reel and they mostly on unblocked free shots at the QB. Edmunds can play at the line, take on o-linemen. The fact that he can consistently do that while spending a lot of time covering is why he's considered such a good athlete.

 

I think most places consider Edmunds an ILB long term, but this team's needs are at rusher right now so I think he could fit there in the short term and long term has more upside than Davenport or Smith or Vander Esch [again just IMO]. So I'd be cool with all those other guys but hoping that Fangio likes Edmunds enough to take him because he's got a lot of upside.

[Thrilho]

Agreed on both those Trubisky takes too. Completion percentage and TD-INT% and physical traits > experience. And yeah, Trubisky's feet were junk in most of those throws and yet nearly all were amazing. Calling top 10 fantasy QB for next year and long term top 5 guy. Can't wait to watch him grow in this offense.

[minnesotacubsfan]

It's funny to me how bad Trubisky's feet are in those videos. He's not pointing towards his throws consistently. Not stepping into throws that don't have interior pressure in his face. His feet are kind of a mess even when he makes good plays. The combination of improved footwork, monumentally better weapons to throw to, and going from the stone age to a real offense will give Trubisky the potential to be a top 5 QB in the very near future.

 

sometimes, you just see what you like regardless of where you are.

 

I think sulley and I are the only 2 on this board who wanted to draft him regardless of cost. Mitch has work to do, but horsefeathers everyone if you dont think he can't.

[Thrilho]

It's funny to me how bad Trubisky's feet are in those videos. He's not pointing towards his throws consistently. Not stepping into throws that don't have interior pressure in his face. His feet are kind of a mess even when he makes good plays. The combination of improved footwork, monumentally better weapons to throw to, and going from the stone age to a real offense will give Trubisky the potential to be a top 5 QB in the very near future.

 

sometimes, you just see what you like regardless of where you are.

 

I think sulley and I are the only 2 on this board who wanted to draft him regardless of cost. Mitch has work to do, but horsefeathers everyone if you dont think he can't.

Come on man! I suppose I don't have enough posts to be part of the Cheers gang but Id think I had enough TL;DR article length posts dedicated to Trubisky fawning leading up to the draft that I get a spot on the bandwagon. Raw was in there too there, maybe the original QB or bust voice.

 

But yeah I'd have given up quite a bit to move up that one spot and was worried that Cleveland would be smarter than standard Cleveland and work some way to get Mitch with one of their picks. But happily they're fools and decided to do the foolish thing of waiting until the second round to get a QB who ended up being bad enough that they traded him a year later. Pace fleeced them and everyone else who had a shot at getting Mitch. Mitch is going to be super good and all Bears fans will be way happy. Pace is making it pretty clear that he's great at GMing, I couldn't have asked for a more promising HC hire, and the the offense is set up to be an exciting consistent top 10 type thing for the first time in my life (first time in every Bears fans life?)

 

I'm sure this all sounds pretty overconfident for a team picking 8, but I feel like the team is finally going to pay off my "cup runneth over" optimism here.

[minnesotacubsfan]

It's funny to me how bad Trubisky's feet are in those videos. He's not pointing towards his throws consistently. Not stepping into throws that don't have interior pressure in his face. His feet are kind of a mess even when he makes good plays. The combination of improved footwork, monumentally better weapons to throw to, and going from the stone age to a real offense will give Trubisky the potential to be a top 5 QB in the very near future.

 

sometimes, you just see what you like regardless of where you are.

 

I think sulley and I are the only 2 on this board who wanted to draft him regardless of cost. Mitch has work to do, but horsefeathers everyone if you dont think he can't.

Come on man! I suppose I don't have enough posts to be part of the Cheers gang but Id think I had enough TL;DR article length posts dedicated to Trubisky fawning leading up to the draft that I get a spot on the bandwagon. Raw was in there too there, maybe the original QB or bust voice.

 

But yeah I'd have given up quite a bit to move up that one spot and was worried that Cleveland would be smarter than standard Cleveland and work some way to get Mitch with one of their picks. But happily they're fools and decided to do the foolish thing of waiting until the second round to get a QB who ended up being bad enough that they traded him a year later. Pace fleeced them and everyone else who had a shot at getting Mitch. Mitch is going to be super good and all Bears fans will be way happy. Pace is making it pretty clear that he's great at GMing, I couldn't have asked for a more promising HC hire, and the the offense is set up to be an exciting consistent top 10 type thing for the first time in my life (first time in every Bears fans life?)

 

I'm sure this all sounds pretty overconfident for a team picking 8, but I feel like the team is finally going to pay off my "cup runneth over" optimism here.

 

 

eh; Sulley are old friends. tree too. regardless, this will be a journey. welcome to the ride.

[Thrilho]

eh; Sulley are old friends. tree too. regardless, this will be a journey. welcome to the ride.

Totally, I just needed a way to start my post. Felt like typing out some Trubisky hyperbole after 10,000 words of defending my logic regarding a future 49ers linebacker.

[WrigleyField 22]

Pace is making it pretty clear that he's great at GMing

:?

[WrigleyField 22]

I wanted to stay far away from this thread after yesterday's travesty BUT I noticed something new. I hadn't closed the tab on my phone yesterday so boom this thread came up. If I'm reading correctly, Edmunds is considered a pass rushing/edge candidate as well as a freak coverage linebacker? That is even easier to squash.

 

Pass rushers in the draft are well studied. In 2011 a poster named WALDO posted on a random football forum formulas for predicting pass rushers and basically changed the whole game for draftniks. The WALDO formulas were incredibly accurate and sparked further works by Justis Mosqueda with his Force Players work as well as Football Outsider's SackSeer. Other metrics such as the Sparq and Twitch took similar concepts to all the positions, but pass rushers started it for me so that is where my confidence is (I'm also liking it for CBs and OTs more and more). The Seahawks are probably the most popular org to dive into these analytics, but slowly and surely these are becoming more mainstream. You might also note that guys like Ware, Bosa, and slam dunk top 3 pick Von Miller did all the relevant drills, no problems and no excuses, as has basically every relevant pass rusher in the past couple decades.

 

Anyway - if you're actually interested in finding a pass rusher I would suggest reading the links and checking out SackSEERs list this year. If you want a pass rusher who can play LB in the first I would go Harold Landry from BC though SackSEER actually likes Davenport and Chubb a little more. Pass rushing isn't Edmunds' game in the first place but, if it were, the lack of sacks (I think he had 10 in college) + non-elite workout would make him a massive gamble and terrible value in the top ten.

Man, there are some fun Bears on that force and mid tier list; Shane Mcclellin, Dan Bazuin, Jarron Gilbert (pool jumper!)

[Thrilho]

Pace is making it pretty clear that he's great at GMing

:?

Seems clear to me, but I understand your perspective. How do you feel about the offseason additions, Nagy included?

[David]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q6UiAecl8O8

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Th_249zCWp4

[davell]

Pace is making it pretty clear that he's great at GMing

:?

Seems clear to me, but I understand your perspective. How do you feel about the offseason additions, Nagy included?

 

 

I like what's been done this off-season. But its way too premature to give Pace any sort of real credit yet. Trubisky has some weapons now. Lets see how he does.....

 

But the bottom line is still the actual bottom line and the record shows nothing so far. How many more years does he get before he needs to make the playoffs?

 

I just don't think a true rebuild is needed in football. But either way, its time to start winning games at this point.

 

Edit- But I will definitely vouch for you, that you were a leading member of the Trubisky bandwagon. Because I went round and round on the other end of it.

[raw]

Raw was in there too there, maybe the original QB or bust voice.

 

That I was. I even predicted that Trubisky would be the target, as he had all the traits Pace looked for. Though, I was on record of slightly preferring Watson.

[Thrilho]

:?

Seems clear to me, but I understand your perspective. How do you feel about the offseason additions, Nagy included?

 

 

I like what's been done this off-season. But its way too premature to give Pace any sort of real credit yet. Trubisky has some weapons now. Lets see how he does.....

 

But the bottom line is still the actual bottom line and the record shows nothing so far. How many more years does he get before he needs to make the playoffs?

 

I just don't think a true rebuild is needed in football. But either way, its time to start winning games at this point.

 

Edit- But I will definitely vouch for you, that you were a leading member of the Trubisky bandwagon. Because I went round and round on the other end of it.

I'll stick with my concept that if you believe in Trubisky and the weapons and the scheme of the HC he got then you can give him his praise now. Same as you could with Theo when the Cubs were losing a ton of games but had an excellent farm system ready to break it open. You could look at the job Theo did to that point and say "well he's real good at coming in second on free agents." Or you could understand that he knew the team wasn't ready and decided not to spend the extra cash to get a guy like Tanaka because it would waste money and screw with his tanking.

 

Here's the roster that Pace took over:

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/chi/2014_roster.htm

 

You and others might not think that a rebuild is necessary in the NFL but I'll say what everyone was saying to Kyle when he said Theo wasn't getting it done. What would you have done differently to turn that team into a consistent contender? Much less a consistent contender with an offense that anyone wanted to watch?

 

Pace has racked up a lot of quality players through these first three drafts. He hasn't hit on many great free agents, but he saved a boatload of cash and has spent a bunch of it this offseason winning bidding wars for good offensive players. And most of them have come here for the QB he got and the coach he got. Robinson was probably the top offensive player on the market and he wouldn't have come here in probably any other year I could remember. It's not like they blew him away with a 5 year contract either. He signed up largely for the quality of the team going forward, it seems to me. Same with Nagy, really.

 

So it took three years to get here, but Angelo had a lot longer than three years. There are a lot of GMs around that have had had longer and haven't put together a team that looks this set up for success. I'm biased, because I think Trubisky is going to be the best QB the Bears have had by a mile and a top 5 guy. So that makes the future look rosier and makes Pace's past moves look rosier. But even if he's not a top 5 QB, I'm real confident this offense is going to be better than anything the Bears have fielded in my lifetime. And the defense is pretty good too, built almost entirely of young players. Can Pace get an amen for solving the safety position?

 

I don't want to get myself into legal jeopardy by taking bets from the 50 or so people who would probably take these, but I'd bet on all these things:

 

- Bears will have a top 10 scoring offense in the NFL next year

- Trubisky is a top 10 fantasy QB next year

- Bears make the playoffs

 

The first two I'm very confident in, the third one...I'll say pretty confident because it would be tough for the first two to happen and not the last one with this defense. So, just to level set, it's on this basis that I'm giving Pace a good grade. I understand the perspective of anyone who needs to see it first though.

[davell]

I'm optimistic. Not nearly THAT optimistic though. A top 10 offense puts them in the playoffs. I don't see that yet.

 

Nor do I think comparing what Pace has done, to what Theo did, is remotely fair. If anything, I think Theo gave the rest of Chicago's sports teams a reason to do this. And none of them are as equipped as well as Theo to do it obviously.

 

Theo had everybody in baseball gushing over the prospects and he'd already proven that he could lure the big FA too, when the time was right..... Everyone knew the Cubs were going to be elite.

 

I mean, we're gushing over Pace's off season this year..... But nationally, its been lukewarm, I guess? No ones jumping thru hoops to talk about the Bears. And its still far from certain this is working either..... If I'm comparing it to the Cubs, I'd say the Bears right now are at the point when the Cubs drafted KB? Which puts the Bears needing to be a playoff team by 2019, I guess?

 

And while I'm thrilled with Robinson, he's a dude coming off a down year and then a season ending injury after that. He's still a risk. Much more so than a normal top flight guy obviously and it showed in his pricetag.

 

As for what I'd have done differently? I'd have went bigger in FA each year and would have traded back enough to acquire a bunch of extra picks.

 

Granted, I'll admit I wouldn't have Trubisky. But, I'd have had the ammo to go get a top flight QB prospect too. And while I'm optimistic on Trubisky, its far from set in stone he's a franchise guy. We'll obviously know much more after the season though.

 

Anyway, put me down in the group where I need to see results here. Pace doesn't have the same authority as Theo.(no one does though lol)

[David]

You're severely overstating the public's faith in Theo before 2015.

 

And if anything, I think the Bears are getting more credit and attention lately nationally than locally. Aside from jahns, the local media has been lukewarm at best.