Bears/NFL training camp opens

[Sammy Sofa]

Eh, everyone wants their team to be run by people who actually know what they're doing, which seems to be a rarity in the NFL these days (I think of the major sports it's easily the one with the most just flat-out terrible front offices).

[David]

i love this horsefeathering guy

 

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[WrigleyField 22]

i love this horsefeathering guy

 

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Dooon't care.

 

Fyi- yesterday's game was supposed to be his first game in the booth. I that Burkhardt/Davis ended up a good team though.

[LeonDurham]

Also I think they're wrong that the Bears could've had him at 3. That will likely never be proven. But as has been noted, the Browns took a QB with their next pick and had more than enough fire power to jump to the #2 if the Bears hadn't acted.

 

Possibly. Has there been any talk the Browns attempted to do so? Also: it's the Browns.

 

And wasn't there a ton of talk that you had a bunch of people throughout the league wondering what the hell the Bears were doing? Again, Trubisky could very well end up being a great pick; it's just kinda goofy it's being spun as this move that required all kinds of brilliant strategy and trading up. You're right; nobody is going to know for sure, but the idea that Pace was just competing with himself seems to at least have as much weight as this idea he skillfully swooped in and was pulling the wool over everyone's eyes playing the long game and snatched away a pick the Bears weren't going to have if they hadn't traded up. Like, he doesn't have to be Super GM for this pick to work out.

 

I didn't read a ton post draft but in the couple days before the draft the Trubisky to Browns rumors were all over the place. I don't know who's actually got sources but here are some links a google search turned up.

 

Browns trying to trade up for QB - UPI - 4/27

https://www.upi.com/Sports_News/NFL/2017/04/27/Browns-trying-to-trade-up-for-QB-Trubisky/4241493330865/

 

Browns sound poised to trade up for QB (and they should) - 4/20

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/04/browns_are_poised_to_trade_up.html

 

Browns reportedly spoke to 3 teams about trading up

bleacherreport.com/articles/2705719-browns-reportedly-spoke-to-3-teams-about-trading-up-from-12th-pick-in-nfl-draft

 

Trubisky a serious possibility for Browns at 1

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/04/mitch_trubisky_still_a_serious.html

 

Chiefs-Browns reportedly coveted Mitch Trubisky (post draft)

bleacherreport.com/articles/2707219-chiefs-browns-reportedly-coveted-mitchell-trubisky-ryan-pace-explains-trade

 

Browns reportedly serious about taking Trubisky over Garrett

bleacherreport.com/articles/2707219-chiefs-browns-reportedly-coveted-mitchell-trubisky-ryan-pace-explains-trade

 

I'm not necessarily concerned with portraying Pace as the Theo of the NFL, but when the alternative view holds that he was dumb and it was a bad move my counterpoint is: nu-uh. I wanted Trubisky and I was reading all those articles that the Browns wanted him and had the fire power to get to 2. I figured leading into the draft that there was a good chance they'd have to trade up to get him. So just on my end it made sense from the beginning.

 

Then you've got what WF22 just said, that Pace knew all the offers to move up to 3.

 

So just in my little world, this was a coup and seems like something Pace planned out quite a bit. And in the end I think it'll look something like if Theo bamboozled his way into KB over Appel rather than having it fall in his lap. I'm adding more 4D chess moves to it by assuming Glennon was part of the plan, just because it makes sense that in order to trick people you can't be sitting there with a bare QB cupboard or a washed up Cutty that has missed significant time just about every year. Just wouldn't make sense to take a safety over QB in that situation. Or it could be that Pace didn't need to do it and I still think he's a genius who got KB over a bunch of Appels.

 

 

 

Good post. Agreed on all fronts. All this angst about the trading of picks is completely unjustified. At the very least, Pace knew people wanted to move up because he was talking to the exact same people trying to move up to 3. The same people who probably wouldn't have been calling him if they knew Pace wanted a QB. But nobody thought that. I'd even bet that if Cleveland 100% knew what the Bears would do, they would've taken Trubisky #1. It's almost like Cleveland fell for the peer pressure and was afraid people would ridicule them for over drafting Trubisky.

 

So much of the rage was the draft experts saying no QB is worth a top 15 pick. That whole concept is dumb because the draft experts completely seem to ignore the economics of the situation. Year after year QBs are overdrafted and often flop. So the experts feel vindicated and continue to underrate them. However, the analytics state that the QB is so far and away the most important position that its inherently worth the risk to draft a franchise QB. You can draft a bust at any position. Or you can even hit. You can draft stud who will be productive for maybe 3-4 years at a far less valuable position. You can get lucky with a DT like Aaron Donald who can hold out and demand a massive contract and then be productive for 2-3 years on that contract.

 

Or you can draft a franchise QB who can lead your team to the playoffs for a 20 year career. These guys are never available on the open market where even mediocre QB's are worth $20million/year. And most teams rarely draft in top 3. Either you draft high and take a shot or get lucky with a late rounder. And the way the draft is now, its tough to get lucky with a later pick. Aaron Rodgers basically made tons of money for all the Blake Bortles and Blaine Gabberts of the world. Any QB with any potential is getting nabbed early.

 

I'm 100% on board with the move by Pace. Even if Trubisky doesn't pan out I'm fine with it. But I'm happy he's looked damn good so far.

[Sammy Sofa]

Or you can draft a franchise QB who can lead your team to the playoffs for a 20 year career.

 

[Chocolate Milk]

So much of the rage was the draft experts saying no QB is worth a top 15 pick.

Almost all draft related rage is people reacting negatively to deviations from the "established" predicted draft order. I personally love all of the post draft hot takes because literally no one has any idea of how the players in the draft will turn out.

 

Independent of how Trubisky turns out, the trade up seems kind of stupid to me. But marginally stupid as they didn't trade mortgage the future for it. The gave up a 3rd (2017), a 4th (2017), and a 3rd (2018). In the second round, they dropped 9 spots and picked up a 4th (2017), a 6th (2017), and a 4th (2018). While these two moves should probably be evaluated independently, it seems to me the dropped when they felt like they could still get their guy and jumped up when they weren't sure if they could get their guy. It's not completely a wash, but it softens the blow for sure.

 

"The Bears have potentially drafted something they never had before - a franchise quarterback!"

"Yeah, but couldn't they have drafted him more economically?"

[Derwood]

So much of the rage was the draft experts saying no QB is worth a top 15 pick.

Almost all draft related rage is people reacting negatively to deviations from the "established" predicted draft order. I personally love all of the post draft hot takes because literally no one has any idea of how the players in the draft will turn out.

 

Independent of how Trubisky turns out, the trade up seems kind of stupid to me. But marginally stupid as they didn't trade mortgage the future for it. The gave up a 3rd (2017), a 4th (2017), and a 3rd (2018). In the second round, they dropped 9 spots and picked up a 4th (2017), a 6th (2017), and a 4th (2018). While these two moves should probably be evaluated independently, it seems to me the dropped when they felt like they could still get their guy and jumped up when they weren't sure if they could get their guy. It's not completely a wash, but it softens the blow for sure.

 

"The Bears have potentially drafted something they never had before - a franchise quarterback!"

"Yeah, but couldn't they have drafted him more economically?"

 

I'm less annoyed by what they gave up to move up, and more concerned about if Trubisky is a "franchise" QB to begin with. Any QB is a gamble, but Trubisky wasn't even a consensus first QB off the board, much less an Andrew Luck-esque "next big thing".

[David]

So much of the rage was the draft experts saying no QB is worth a top 15 pick.

Almost all draft related rage is people reacting negatively to deviations from the "established" predicted draft order. I personally love all of the post draft hot takes because literally no one has any idea of how the players in the draft will turn out.

 

Independent of how Trubisky turns out, the trade up seems kind of stupid to me. But marginally stupid as they didn't trade mortgage the future for it. The gave up a 3rd (2017), a 4th (2017), and a 3rd (2018). In the second round, they dropped 9 spots and picked up a 4th (2017), a 6th (2017), and a 4th (2018). While these two moves should probably be evaluated independently, it seems to me the dropped when they felt like they could still get their guy and jumped up when they weren't sure if they could get their guy. It's not completely a wash, but it softens the blow for sure.

 

"The Bears have potentially drafted something they never had before - a franchise quarterback!"

"Yeah, but couldn't they have drafted him more economically?"

 

I'm less annoyed by what they gave up to move up, and more concerned about if Trubisky is a "franchise" QB to begin with. Any QB is a gamble, but Trubisky wasn't even a consensus first QB off the board, much less an Andrew Luck-esque "next big thing".

 

mainly because some people don't know that deshaun watson will never throw accurately enough to be all that good.

[Derwood]

Almost all draft related rage is people reacting negatively to deviations from the "established" predicted draft order. I personally love all of the post draft hot takes because literally no one has any idea of how the players in the draft will turn out.

 

Independent of how Trubisky turns out, the trade up seems kind of stupid to me. But marginally stupid as they didn't trade mortgage the future for it. The gave up a 3rd (2017), a 4th (2017), and a 3rd (2018). In the second round, they dropped 9 spots and picked up a 4th (2017), a 6th (2017), and a 4th (2018). While these two moves should probably be evaluated independently, it seems to me the dropped when they felt like they could still get their guy and jumped up when they weren't sure if they could get their guy. It's not completely a wash, but it softens the blow for sure.

 

"The Bears have potentially drafted something they never had before - a franchise quarterback!"

"Yeah, but couldn't they have drafted him more economically?"

 

I'm less annoyed by what they gave up to move up, and more concerned about if Trubisky is a "franchise" QB to begin with. Any QB is a gamble, but Trubisky wasn't even a consensus first QB off the board, much less an Andrew Luck-esque "next big thing".

 

mainly because some people don't know that deshaun watson will never throw accurately enough to be all that good.

 

He was good enough to beat Ohio State (handily) and Alabama last year in the playoffs, but I guess we'll see

[LeonDurham]

 

I'm less annoyed by what they gave up to move up, and more concerned about if Trubisky is a "franchise" QB to begin with. Any QB is a gamble, but Trubisky wasn't even a consensus first QB off the board, much less an Andrew Luck-esque "next big thing".

 

mainly because some people don't know that deshaun watson will never throw accurately enough to be all that good.

 

He was good enough to beat Ohio State (handily) and Alabama last year in the playoffs, but I guess we'll see

 

 

You mean a consensus #1 like Jared Goff? Time will tell for sure. But no question that Rams would take Mitch for Goff right now and not even think twice. And I disagree. Most people thought Trubisky was a better pick that Watson, even given Watson's resume.

[David]

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[WrigleyField 22]

I'm less annoyed by what they gave up to move up, and more concerned about if Trubisky is a "franchise" QB to begin with. Any QB is a gamble, but Trubisky wasn't even a consensus first QB off the board, much less an Andrew Luck-esque "next big thing".

Rofl, come the horsefeathers on.

[UK]

The market value for moving up 1 slot was worth what they gave up.

 

5 of the top 6 teams in the draft needed a QB.

 

The only bitching I will do about Trubisky is if they keep Sanchez and keep 3 QBs active.

[Guest]

Almost all draft related rage is people reacting negatively to deviations from the "established" predicted draft order. I personally love all of the post draft hot takes because literally no one has any idea of how the players in the draft will turn out.

 

Independent of how Trubisky turns out, the trade up seems kind of stupid to me. But marginally stupid as they didn't trade mortgage the future for it. The gave up a 3rd (2017), a 4th (2017), and a 3rd (2018). In the second round, they dropped 9 spots and picked up a 4th (2017), a 6th (2017), and a 4th (2018). While these two moves should probably be evaluated independently, it seems to me the dropped when they felt like they could still get their guy and jumped up when they weren't sure if they could get their guy. It's not completely a wash, but it softens the blow for sure.

 

"The Bears have potentially drafted something they never had before - a franchise quarterback!"

"Yeah, but couldn't they have drafted him more economically?"

 

I'm less annoyed by what they gave up to move up, and more concerned about if Trubisky is a "franchise" QB to begin with. Any QB is a gamble, but Trubisky wasn't even a consensus first QB off the board, much less an Andrew Luck-esque "next big thing".

 

mainly because some people don't know that deshaun watson will never throw accurately enough to be all that good.

 

And also, he makes one read and runs.

[Guest]

I'm less annoyed by what they gave up to move up, and more concerned about if Trubisky is a "franchise" QB to begin with. Any QB is a gamble, but Trubisky wasn't even a consensus first QB off the board, much less an Andrew Luck-esque "next big thing".

Rofl, come the horsefeathers on.

 

Derwood's takes are becoming bum-esque.

[David]

The market value for moving up 1 slot was worth what they gave up.

 

5 of the top 6 teams in the draft needed a QB.

 

The only bitching I will do about Trubisky is if they keep Sanchez and keep 3 QBs active.

 

what's crazy is how much the draft got bashed immediately and how solid the first 4 picks are looking.

 

they may have gotten 4 legit contributors, including a franchise QB, in one draft. that's the good stuff.

[Derwood]

I'm less annoyed by what they gave up to move up, and more concerned about if Trubisky is a "franchise" QB to begin with. Any QB is a gamble, but Trubisky wasn't even a consensus first QB off the board, much less an Andrew Luck-esque "next big thing".

Rofl, come the horsefeathers on.

 

Derwood's takes are becoming bum-esque.

 

Says the guy with the hottest takes in the thread

[WrigleyField 22]

Rofl, come the horsefeathers on.

 

Derwood's takes are becoming bum-esque.

 

Says the guy with the hottest takes in the thread

Bringing up Andrew Luck in a QB prospect discussion is the NFL version of Godwins law.

[Guest]

Dude, you're like an alien that read every word of a USAToday from last month and you decided you might like to try your hand at "trolling."

 

That's basically what the bum is. I mean, with maybe a bit more self-awareness.

[Derwood]

Dude, you're like an alien that read every word of a USAToday from last month and you decided you might like to try your hand at "trolling."

 

That's basically what the bum is. I mean, with maybe a bit more self-awareness.

 

Lol, ok. No

[Guest]

I don't think that's an acceptable response, though.

[David]

Dude, you're like an alien that read every word of a USAToday from last month and you decided you might like to try your hand at "trolling."

 

That's basically what the bum is. I mean, with maybe a bit more self-awareness.

 

this is actually so spot on lmao

[Derwood]

Derwood displays some concerns about how the off-season went: CRAZY HOT TAKES

 

Sulley proclaims Trubisky to be the next Aaron Rodgers, plus the running game is "elite": reasoned analysis.

[WrigleyField 22]

Derwood displays some concerns about how the off-season went: CRAZY HOT TAKES

 

Sulley proclaims Trubisky to be the next Aaron Rodgers, plus the running game is "elite": reasoned analysis.

Everyone knows sulley is a crazy blowhard (only my teams!), but he wears it on his sleeve. Your measured response is concern that Trubisky isn't Andrew Luck as a prospect.

[Derwood]

Derwood displays some concerns about how the off-season went: CRAZY HOT TAKES

 

Sulley proclaims Trubisky to be the next Aaron Rodgers, plus the running game is "elite": reasoned analysis.

Everyone knows sulley is a crazy blowhard (only my teams!), but he wears it on his sleeve. Your measured response is concern that Trubisky isn't Andrew Luck as a prospect.

 

My measured concern is everyone in this thread crowning Mitch's ass before he's thrown a meaningful pass.