Bulls offseason

[UMFan83]

How bad are we currently? Over/Under 25 wins? Figure we'll bring back Mirotic. And I guess we'll use Rondo to bring in a bad contract guy, with something attached.

I'd say definitely under 30 wins

 

I saw somewhere on twitter that a vegas capper estimated O/U at 35 wins, but I dont think thats possible. And if they did win 35 games I'd be pisssed.

[davell]

I've just been dead set on getting the rebuild started. It truly doesn't bother me that the alternative to what happened, was watching another .500ish team slug thru another season.

 

I'd love to know what other packages were on the table. I'm sure they'd have pissed me off. But, I hate GarPax so much, they've lowered the bar for me, to the point I'd accept anything.

 

Selling the 38th pick for cash was absolutely stupid and cheap and shows they're not even truly committed to rebuilding though. Can't believe they needed to include 16 in the trade either.

 

If they don't take on a bad contract or two and add another asset or two in the process, I'll get more pissed. If you're going to do this, just do it. But, they'll half ass it, based on what they did last night.

[jersey cubs fan]

I've just been dead set on getting the rebuild started. It truly doesn't bother me that the alternative to what happened, was watching another .500ish team slug thru another season.

 

That was not the alternative though, and I'm not quite sure why you, and people like David Haugh, are ignoring that fact.

 

Choosing to rebuild is a viable game plan, but having the strategy in place does you no good when the tactics taken to get to your goal are poorly done.

 

If you want a rebuild, you need very good drafter/developer people in charge, and if you are going to sell off valuable assets you need to turn them into valuable future assets. It's kind of insane that they didn't get any future picks when trading a current star.

 

A rebuild doesn't start just because you've sold off your assets for 71 cents on the dollar.

 

It is amazing how much the incredibly unique strategy taken by Theo and the Cubs has blinded so many people to the actual work that has to be done to make it a success.

[WrigleyField 22]

Re: having a good drafter, did Lloyd end up getting the Orlando GM job? He was always given a lot of credit for the mid aughts draft hits. Can he be brought back?

[davell]

I've just been dead set on getting the rebuild started. It truly doesn't bother me that the alternative to what happened, was watching another .500ish team slug thru another season.

 

That was not the alternative though, and I'm not quite sure why you, and people like David Haugh, are ignoring that fact.

 

Choosing to rebuild is a viable game plan, but having the strategy in place does you no good when the tactics taken to get to your goal are poorly done.

 

If you want a rebuild, you need very good drafter/developer people in charge, and if you are going to sell off valuable assets you need to turn them into valuable future assets. It's kind of insane that they didn't get any future picks when trading a current star.

 

A rebuild doesn't start just because you've sold off your assets for 71 cents on the dollar.

 

It is amazing how much the incredibly unique strategy taken by Theo and the Cubs has blinded so many people to the actual work that has to be done to make it a success.

 

I agree we've got the wrong guys here to implement this. They're awful. But, what WAS the alternative? Watching these same idiots try to build WITH Jimmy and setting us back even further? If they're not capable of executing one strategy, what makes them capable of the other?

 

We weren't competing for a title within the next two years, under any circumstance. At that point, you'd be paying Jimmy a super max deal and making it even harder to truly compete.

 

I think this path is the one likelier to get us into contention quicker, acknowledging that NEITHER is likily to get the Bulls there within the next 3-4 years.

 

One involves getting lucky with drafting, the other was counting on a guy in his 30's holding up well and eventually recruiting guys here, when he's taking up 30-35% of the cap.

[davell]

I've just been dead set on getting the rebuild started. It truly doesn't bother me that the alternative to what happened, was watching another .500ish team slug thru another season.

 

That was not the alternative though, and I'm not quite sure why you, and people like David Haugh, are ignoring that fact.

 

Choosing to rebuild is a viable game plan, but having the strategy in place does you no good when the tactics taken to get to your goal are poorly done.

 

If you want a rebuild, you need very good drafter/developer people in charge, and if you are going to sell off valuable assets you need to turn them into valuable future assets. It's kind of insane that they didn't get any future picks when trading a current star.

 

A rebuild doesn't start just because you've sold off your assets for 71 cents on the dollar.

 

It is amazing how much the incredibly unique strategy taken by Theo and the Cubs has blinded so many people to the actual work that has to be done to make it a success.

 

And I'll gladly admit that after last night, we should be sitting on some extra picks. We should have been able to keep the 16. Should have gotten an extra pick from Minny too. And should have kept Bell or traded him for future picks too.

[Bobson Dugnutt]

I've just been dead set on getting the rebuild started. It truly doesn't bother me that the alternative to what happened, was watching another .500ish team slug thru another season.

 

That was not the alternative though, and I'm not quite sure why you, and people like David Haugh, are ignoring that fact.

 

Choosing to rebuild is a viable game plan, but having the strategy in place does you no good when the tactics taken to get to your goal are poorly done.

 

If you want a rebuild, you need very good drafter/developer people in charge, and if you are going to sell off valuable assets you need to turn them into valuable future assets. It's kind of insane that they didn't get any future picks when trading a current star.

 

A rebuild doesn't start just because you've sold off your assets for 71 cents on the dollar.

 

It is amazing how much the incredibly unique strategy taken by Theo and the Cubs has blinded so many people to the actual work that has to be done to make it a success.

 

We weren't competing for a title within the next two years, under any circumstance. At that point, you'd be paying Jimmy a super max deal and making it even harder to truly compete.

 

I think this path is the one likelier to get us into contention quicker, acknowledging that NEITHER is likily to get the Bulls there within the next 3-4 years.

 

Jimmy's under contract for three more years, not two. And I disagree that the path that leaves us with zero stars is likelier to get us into contention more quickly than the one in which we have one.

[Splendid Splinter]

 

That was not the alternative though, and I'm not quite sure why you, and people like David Haugh, are ignoring that fact.

 

Choosing to rebuild is a viable game plan, but having the strategy in place does you no good when the tactics taken to get to your goal are poorly done.

 

If you want a rebuild, you need very good drafter/developer people in charge, and if you are going to sell off valuable assets you need to turn them into valuable future assets. It's kind of insane that they didn't get any future picks when trading a current star.

 

A rebuild doesn't start just because you've sold off your assets for 71 cents on the dollar.

 

It is amazing how much the incredibly unique strategy taken by Theo and the Cubs has blinded so many people to the actual work that has to be done to make it a success.

 

We weren't competing for a title within the next two years, under any circumstance. At that point, you'd be paying Jimmy a super max deal and making it even harder to truly compete.

 

I think this path is the one likelier to get us into contention quicker, acknowledging that NEITHER is likily to get the Bulls there within the next 3-4 years.

 

Jimmy's under contract for three more years, not two. And I disagree that the path that leaves us with zero stars is likelier to get us into contention more quickly than the one in which we have one.

 

It's really 2 years. 3rd year is player option which he'll opt out 100%.

[davell]

 

That was not the alternative though, and I'm not quite sure why you, and people like David Haugh, are ignoring that fact.

 

Choosing to rebuild is a viable game plan, but having the strategy in place does you no good when the tactics taken to get to your goal are poorly done.

 

If you want a rebuild, you need very good drafter/developer people in charge, and if you are going to sell off valuable assets you need to turn them into valuable future assets. It's kind of insane that they didn't get any future picks when trading a current star.

 

A rebuild doesn't start just because you've sold off your assets for 71 cents on the dollar.

 

It is amazing how much the incredibly unique strategy taken by Theo and the Cubs has blinded so many people to the actual work that has to be done to make it a success.

 

We weren't competing for a title within the next two years, under any circumstance. At that point, you'd be paying Jimmy a super max deal and making it even harder to truly compete.

 

I think this path is the one likelier to get us into contention quicker, acknowledging that NEITHER is likily to get the Bulls there within the next 3-4 years.

 

Jimmy's under contract for three more years, not two. And I disagree that the path that leaves us with zero stars is likelier to get us into contention more quickly than the one in which we have one.

 

No, its two. He has a player option. There's no way in hell he'd use that unless he's ridiculously hurt at that point.

[Thed Hoyerstein]

[Andy]

Is there a single person in the media even kind of defending it? Legitimately asking. I'd love to read it.

No. One SI.com article said the only defensible thing about the deal is how bad it makes the team now, and I think that's the closest thing to a defense I've seen.

 

And the hell of it is, it probably doesn't even make the team THAT bad unless Dunn and LaVine both turn into their worst-case scenarios. A basket of future picks probably would've made the team really bad, but they wouldn't even go that route apparently.

 

FWIW, Boston supposedly wasn't offering 3 or next year's Nets pick (Danny Ainge is allergic to trading anything with any value at all), so who knows if there was a better deal out there.

[Bobson Dugnutt]

 

We weren't competing for a title within the next two years, under any circumstance. At that point, you'd be paying Jimmy a super max deal and making it even harder to truly compete.

 

I think this path is the one likelier to get us into contention quicker, acknowledging that NEITHER is likily to get the Bulls there within the next 3-4 years.

 

Jimmy's under contract for three more years, not two. And I disagree that the path that leaves us with zero stars is likelier to get us into contention more quickly than the one in which we have one.

 

It's really 2 years. 3rd year is player option which he'll opt out 100%.

 

ah, ok.

[Cubswin11]

Re: having a good drafter, did Lloyd end up getting the Orlando GM job? He was always given a lot of credit for the mid aughts draft hits. Can he be brought back?

The Bucks GM, John Hammond, left and took the Orlando job

[UMFan83]

Re: having a good drafter, did Lloyd end up getting the Orlando GM job? He was always given a lot of credit for the mid aughts draft hits. Can he be brought back?

 

I think his star lost a bunch of shine due to the fact that the Magic have probably been the worst lottery drafters in the league since he joined.

[Derwood]

Behold! Your new savior!

 

 

http://i.cdn.turner.com/drp/nba/bulls/sites/default/files/styles/hi_res_full_width/public/ssmith_cover_1_-lauri_markkanen_06.23.jpg?itok=ev5jg0az

[davell]

 

Well, at least we know Boston wasn't offering much.

 

And not that I like being on their side very often, Haugh and Bernstein are both defending the direction.

[Sammy Sofa]

The Bears are just happy that it only took 2 months for another Chicago team to overtake them in the "let's be dumbasses on draft day" department.

 

And please, before any of you start quivering in sweaty anger over how sneaky smart the Bears actually were, do us all a favor and just start eating your keyboard instead. The Bears are garbage and will be garbage forever, and I hope you have trouble [expletive] out that spacebar.

[WrigleyField 22]

Fwiw, based on my calcs

 

Room under salary cap/floor :

 

With no holds on current FA, and Rondo option picked up; 25.9/16

 

With holds for Felicio and Mirotic, and Rondo option picked up; 12.4/2.5

 

With Rondo option declined and cap holds for Mirotic/Felicio; 22.8/12.9

 

So, try and salary dump Rondo as an expiring? Buy out Wade. Offer 2 or 3 year deals at average salary (~6.5m/per) to Felicio and Mirotoc, but don't fret if someone else overpays (probably will for Mirotic). Round out roster with low level FAs. Who cares if you even meet salary floor.

 

Grant-Dunn-Payne

(Lavine)-Valentine-Canaan

Zipser

Markkanen-Portis

Lopez-Felicio

 

Plus any Rondo trade salary dump returm and low level FAs. That's a good tank team right?

[WrigleyField 22]

If you don't sell Rondo as an expiring by taking on a longer term contract, you could easily be looking at 50m+ in 2018 cap space without even getting rid of Lopez (or worthless bit pieces like Payne).

 

Eta - that would be with a max of anywhere from 24 to 36 depending on where the cap falls and the player in question.

[davell]

I think you've got to keep Wade for a while anyway. If he's not too pissed anyway, over Jimmy getting dealt. They need some semblance of a vet that can help teach, on some level. Granted, it could be Rondo, but with the PG's on the roster, I think he's gone.

 

I think you try and take back a shitty contract for Rondo actually, adding an asset in the process, for doing it. Maybe Deng or Noah? Getting picks from the Knicks and picks or Randle from LA....

 

Won't surprise me if Lopez is dealt. But, it may be an in-season deal.

 

PG Dunn(I think he'll start) Grant, Payne(one of them probably gone before season starts, with cheap vet as replacement)

SG Wade, LaVine, Valentine

SF Mirotic, Zipser,

PF Portis, Markkonen

C Lopez, Felicio

 

Rondo moved for bad salary and young guy or pick. Payne or Grant moved for a 2nd probably. A couple of vets signed to short term contracts. Mid season buyout of Wade, trade of Lopez....

 

That's my guess.

[Sammy Sofa]

Behold! Your new savior!

 

 

http://i.cdn.turner.com/drp/nba/bulls/sites/default/files/styles/hi_res_full_width/public/ssmith_cover_1_-lauri_markkanen_06.23.jpg?itok=ev5jg0az

 

Hopefully he brought Rowsdower with him.

[davell]

If you don't sell Rondo as an expiring by taking on a longer term contract, you could easily be looking at 50m+ in 2018 cap space without even getting rid of Lopez (or worthless bit pieces like Payne).

 

Eta - that would be with a max of anywhere from 24 to 36 depending on where the cap falls and the player in question.

 

Its hard enough getting a max guy to come to Chicago, if the Bulls are already good. I don't think you're getting them with a 25 win roster. I think its definitely a few years of high picks and hoping to draft a star before you're in the picture of any max guys considering them.

[WrigleyField 22]

If you don't sell Rondo as an expiring by taking on a longer term contract, you could easily be looking at 50m+ in 2018 cap space without even getting rid of Lopez (or worthless bit pieces like Payne).

 

Eta - that would be with a max of anywhere from 24 to 36 depending on where the cap falls and the player in question.

 

Its hard enough getting a max guy to come to Chicago, if the Bulls are already good. I don't think you're getting them with a 25 win roster. I think its definitely a few years of high picks and hoping to draft a star before you're in the picture of any max guys considering them.

I'm not trying to sell it as "the plan" or anything, but bottom line is within the next three off seasons the Bulls would need to hand out 130-150 in total commitments (including their own FA) just to meet the salary floor over that period, without even trying to clear space. But they'll have some flexibility how they want to approach it... spread it out each year, or go for a big splash year in 18 or 19.

[UMFan83]

If you don't sell Rondo as an expiring by taking on a longer term contract, you could easily be looking at 50m+ in 2018 cap space without even getting rid of Lopez (or worthless bit pieces like Payne).

 

Eta - that would be with a max of anywhere from 24 to 36 depending on where the cap falls and the player in question.

 

Its hard enough getting a max guy to come to Chicago, if the Bulls are already good. I don't think you're getting them with a 25 win roster. I think its definitely a few years of high picks and hoping to draft a star before you're in the picture of any max guys considering them.

 

Any cap space the Bulls have should be used for absorbing bad contracts in exchange for lottery picks.

[WrigleyField 22]

If you don't sell Rondo as an expiring by taking on a longer term contract, you could easily be looking at 50m+ in 2018 cap space without even getting rid of Lopez (or worthless bit pieces like Payne).

 

Eta - that would be with a max of anywhere from 24 to 36 depending on where the cap falls and the player in question.

 

Its hard enough getting a max guy to come to Chicago, if the Bulls are already good. I don't think you're getting them with a 25 win roster. I think its definitely a few years of high picks and hoping to draft a star before you're in the picture of any max guys considering them.

 

Any cap space the Bulls have should be used for absorbing bad contracts in exchange for lottery picks.

Its a reasonable request from a fan perspective, but with the rising cap and less years on deals, there's a lot less opportunity than there used to be. There's really only a handful of teams with long term cap issues and at least a third of the league probably wouldn't need a cost saving deal like Rondo as a quick fix for immediate cap space.

Edited June 23, 2017 by WrigleyField 22