Bears offseason

[WrigleyField 22]

I'd much rather draft Lattimore. He ran a 4.36.

 

Teez Tabor, who was projected as maybe the top CB in the draft, ran 4.63.

 

40 times are an incredibly stupid way to judge players. Who cares how fast they can run in a straight line with no pads?

 

Because generally, the faster they run in a straight line with no pads, the faster they play.

 

And it's not like there's no film on Lattimore, the fact that he possesses world class speed indicates he can keep up with receivers in addition to having instincts.

Obviously Lattimore is a top prospect as is, but not sure he's top 5 pick, 40 time or not.

 

FWIW, in regards to the discussion;

Top 25 CBs in 2016 per PFF (*Indicates estimate or non-combine time)

Player 40Time PFF Score '16

Aqib Talib 4.44 90

Malcolm Butler 4.6* 86

Chris Harris Jr. 4.48 87

Terence Newman 4.37 85

Patrick Peterson 4.31 84

Janoris Jenkins 4.41 84

AJ Bouye 4.55* 87

Casey Hayward 4.47 84

Morris Claiborne 4.50 84

Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie 4.29 84

Josh Norman 4.61 83

Sean Smith 4.50 84

David Amerson 4.44 83

Xavier Rhodes 4.43 81

Brent Grimes 4.57* 83

Marcus Peters 4.53 81

Richard Sherman 4.54 78

Brandon Carr 4.44* 81

Darius Slay 4.36 82

Tramaine Brock 4.4* 82

Lamarcus Joyner 4.55 82

James Bradberry 4.50 80

Captain Munnerlyn 4.51 81

Byron Maxwell 4.43 79

Prince Amukamara 4.38 81

Average 4.46

 

Mid 4.4s is probably the consensus of what you want to see from a top CB prospect. But it certainly shouldn't move a guy too much, and I'm always much more interested in 40 times next to the other athletic tests, like the shuttle.

[davell]

Adam Jahns mentions we're interested in Kenny Stills and Dion Sims.....

 

I kind of like Sims, but I think we can use a mid round pick on a TE and wind up as good or better off.

 

Adam Shaheen intrigues the horsefeathers out of me.

 

Stills? He's young. But damn, he drops a bunch of balls. Keep Alshon or get Pryor. I'm fairly unhappy with anything less than one of those two.

[Guest]

I'd much rather draft Lattimore. He ran a 4.36.

 

Teez Tabor, who was projected as maybe the top CB in the draft, ran 4.63.

 

 

I like Lattimore. But he also tweaked his hamstring right after running and has had hamstring issues in the past. A bit too much risk to take at 3 for me. A trade down to the 8-10 range? Yeah, he's a definite possibility in that range. That said, I don't see a team trading up with us.

 

I think if a player that you like is there where you are picking and he won't be there the next time you pick and you can't find a trade partner, you take the guy you want.

[jersey cubs fan]

I'd much rather draft Lattimore. He ran a 4.36.

 

Teez Tabor, who was projected as maybe the top CB in the draft, ran 4.63.

 

 

I like Lattimore. But he also tweaked his hamstring right after running and has had hamstring issues in the past. A bit too much risk to take at 3 for me. A trade down to the 8-10 range? Yeah, he's a definite possibility in that range. That said, I don't see a team trading up with us.

 

I think if a player that you like is there where you are picking and he won't be there the next time you pick and you can't find a trade partner, you take the guy you want.

Aka the Shea McClellan

[davell]

I'd much rather draft Lattimore. He ran a 4.36.

 

Teez Tabor, who was projected as maybe the top CB in the draft, ran 4.63.

 

 

I like Lattimore. But he also tweaked his hamstring right after running and has had hamstring issues in the past. A bit too much risk to take at 3 for me. A trade down to the 8-10 range? Yeah, he's a definite possibility in that range. That said, I don't see a team trading up with us.

 

I think if a player that you like is there where you are picking and he won't be there the next time you pick and you can't find a trade partner, you take the guy you want.

 

 

That's fine. In THAT case, I'd much prefer any of Garrett, Adams, or Hooker at 3. Maybe still Allen too. Injuries suck, but I don't see Hooker's being a long term impediment, so I'd still feel at least a bit more comfy at 3, with him, over Lattimore. P!us, I like the depth at CB much more in the draft, than at any other defensive position.

[Derwood]

If the Browns take anyone but Garrett they're nuts.

[davell]

If the Browns take anyone but Garrett they're nuts.

 

I agree and think they DO take him. I just used him because I have 3 definite defensive guys I'd take over Lattimore and that's all that's needed to not use a pick on him at 3, from my personal list.

[Derwood]

If the Browns take anyone but Garrett they're nuts.

 

I agree and think they DO take him. I just used him because I have 3 definite defensive guys I'd take over Lattimore and that's all that's needed to not use a pick on him at 3, from my personal list.

 

Garrett is the obvious pick, but the Browns have "smartest guy in the room" syndrome and will do something stupid

[Guest]

 

 

I like Lattimore. But he also tweaked his hamstring right after running and has had hamstring issues in the past. A bit too much risk to take at 3 for me. A trade down to the 8-10 range? Yeah, he's a definite possibility in that range. That said, I don't see a team trading up with us.

 

I think if a player that you like is there where you are picking and he won't be there the next time you pick and you can't find a trade partner, you take the guy you want.

Aka the Shea McClellan

 

I don't think Emery saw him as a reach, bruh.

[jumbo]

 

I think if a player that you like is there where you are picking and he won't be there the next time you pick and you can't find a trade partner, you take the guy you want.

Aka the Shea McClellan

 

I don't think Emery saw him as a reach, bruh.

 

Jersey called it the Shea McClellan. I call it the Angelo approach: fixate on a guy, decide you need him, get scared he won't be there with your next pick and then pick the player a round too early. It fits a lot of Angelo picks (or maybe bad picks just fit the narrative).

 

I think Angelo's draft room was incapable of handling the pressure of letting the draft come to them. Nervous that a guy might not be available, they lowered their sights, picked a safe target, then overdrafted them to avoid disturbing their plan. I'll bet they could have submitted their picks a week early and gotten everyone they wanted through this approach. All just thoughts from all the drafts I watched over the years.

[jersey cubs fan]

Aka the Shea McClellan

 

I don't think Emery saw him as a reach, bruh.

 

Jersey called it the Shea McClellan. I call it the Angelo approach: fixate on a guy, decide you need him, get scared he won't be there with your next pick and then pick the player a round too early. It fits a lot of Angelo picks (or maybe bad picks just fit the narrative).

 

I think Angelo's draft room was incapable of handling the pressure of letting the draft come to them. Nervous that a guy might not be available, they lowered their sights, picked a safe target, then overdrafted them to avoid disturbing their plan. I'll bet they could have submitted their picks a week early and gotten everyone they wanted through this approach. All just thoughts from all the drafts I watched over the years.

angelo was such a better drafter than Emery though.

 

That description does work on guys like Bazuin, but that was a second round reach, and probably more to do with Lovies increased say in the draft and the supposed perfect fit.

[Guest]

 

Jersey called it the Shea McClellan. I call it the Angelo approach: fixate on a guy, decide you need him, get scared he won't be there with your next pick and then pick the player a round too early. It fits a lot of Angelo picks (or maybe bad picks just fit the narrative).

 

I think Angelo's draft room was incapable of handling the pressure of letting the draft come to them. Nervous that a guy might not be available, they lowered their sights, picked a safe target, then overdrafted them to avoid disturbing their plan. I'll bet they could have submitted their picks a week early and gotten everyone they wanted through this approach. All just thoughts from all the drafts I watched over the years.

 

Emery's problem is that he is crappy at identifying talent, not that he went after guys he liked. I'm pretty sure McLellin was the top guy on his board when he picked him.

 

GM's reach for people all the time based on who they like and who will be there when they pick next. Optimally, you want to get the guy you like, where they're slotted, but most settle for who they want.

[WrigleyField 22]

 

Jersey called it the Shea McClellan. I call it the Angelo approach: fixate on a guy, decide you need him, get scared he won't be there with your next pick and then pick the player a round too early. It fits a lot of Angelo picks (or maybe bad picks just fit the narrative).

 

I think Angelo's draft room was incapable of handling the pressure of letting the draft come to them. Nervous that a guy might not be available, they lowered their sights, picked a safe target, then overdrafted them to avoid disturbing their plan. I'll bet they could have submitted their picks a week early and gotten everyone they wanted through this approach. All just thoughts from all the drafts I watched over the years.

 

Emery's problem is that he is crappy at identifying talent, not that he went after guys he liked. I'm pretty sure McLellin was the top guy on his board when he picked him.

 

GM's reach for people all the time based on who they like and who will be there when they pick next. Optimally, you want to get the guy you like, where they're slotted, but most settle for who they want.

Trying to determine if a guy was best on a GMs board is a project in vain because draft boards vary so much. (This goes for Angelo or Emery)

 

Retrospectively with Emery, he seemed to be a very process oriented guy, which is only a good thing if you have the right process in place. He seems like a decent scout, but was obviously a poor GM.

 

Angelo... obviously had some early hits and then not only failed to follow up on that success, but also systematically devalued the draft and develepment pipeline.

[RammyFanny]

A reminder that Free Agency begins this afternoon. Or at least the legal tampering period. But I believe verbal agreements can be made today (correct me if I'm wrong).

[WrigleyField 22]

A reminder that Free Agency begins this afternoon. Or at least the legal tampering period. But I believe verbal agreements can be made today (correct me if I'm wrong).

Correct. No pen to paper, but we may get verbal agreements.

[WrigleyField 22]

Remember when Lovie showed up at Peppers front door at midnight because FA officially opened?

 

It will be like that except a tweet from Ian Rappaport at 4 EST that Glennon is headed to the Bears on a 3 year deal.

 

:?

Edited March 7, 2017 by WrigleyField 22

[davell]

So, here's the list of known targets, as of now.....

 

RT Ricky Wagner(Lions sign)-27(3.5)Riley Reiff-28(2.5) Austin Pasztor-26(2)

QB Mike Glennon-27(2) Brian Hoyer-(San Fran signs)31(2)

CB Stephon Gilmore-26(3.5),AJ Bouye-26(4)

S DJ Swearinger-26(2.5), Duron Harmon-26(2), Micah Hyde-26(3)

TE Jack Doyle(Colts resign), Dion Sims-26(1.5)

WR Alshon Jeffery-27(3.5, Kenny Stills(Dolphins resign)-25(2), Cordarelle Patterson-26-(2.5), Andre Holmes-29(1.5) Brandon LaFell(Bengals resign)-30(1.5)

Edited March 8, 2017 by davell

[WrigleyField 22]

So, here's the list of known targets, as of now.....

 

RT Wagner - Sure

QB Glennon, Hoyer - meh, ew

CB Gilmore - yes please

S Swearinger, Harmon - yes, not sure

TE Doyle, Sims - unsure on both- draft moght be better

WR Jeffery, Stills, Patterson, Holmes - YES, yea, unsure, unsure

My official thoughts

[davell]

So, here's the list of known targets, as of now.....

 

RT Wagner - Sure

QB Glennon, Hoyer - meh, ew

CB Gilmore - yes please

S Swearinger, Harmon - yes, not sure

TE Doyle, Sims - unsure on both- draft moght be better

WR Jeffery, Stills, Patterson, Holmes - YES, yea, unsure, unsure

My official thoughts

 

I'm OK if they bring back Hoyer. I'd be happy with Harmon. The draft is loaded with TE's, I think I prefer that route. Stills is young, but I think I'm a "no" on him. I like Cordarelle enough as a returner to put up with him as a 3/4 WR. I guess Holmes is a ST guy too, but I don't know enough about him.

[WrigleyField 22]

So, here's the list of known targets, as of now.....

 

RT Wagner - Sure

QB Glennon, Hoyer - meh, ew

CB Gilmore - yes please

S Swearinger, Harmon - yes, not sure

TE Doyle, Sims - unsure on both- draft moght be better

WR Jeffery, Stills, Patterson, Holmes - YES, yea, unsure, unsure

My official thoughts

 

I'm OK if they bring back Hoyer. I'd be happy with Harmon. The draft is loaded with TE's, I think I prefer that route. Stills is young, but I think I'm a "no" on him. I like Cordarelle enough as a returner to put up with him as a 3/4 WR. I guess Holmes is a ST guy too, but I don't know enough about him.

I'm in the acceptance stage with Hoyer, but if he is the presumed starter (no Watson/Trubisky @3), I might just watch the Bears defense on Sundays.

[RammyFanny]

None of these guys are without risk, but if you can add Gilmore, Swearinger, AND a DB in the 1st (Adams/Hooker/Lattimore, maybe a trade down), I'd be pretty giddy.

[UK]

My official thoughts

 

I'm OK if they bring back Hoyer. I'd be happy with Harmon. The draft is loaded with TE's, I think I prefer that route. Stills is young, but I think I'm a "no" on him. I like Cordarelle enough as a returner to put up with him as a 3/4 WR. I guess Holmes is a ST guy too, but I don't know enough about him.

I'm in the acceptance stage with Hoyer, but if he is the presumed starter (no Watson/Trubisky @3), I might just watch the Bears defense on Sundays.

 

I can't wait for KC to cut Foles.

[davell]

If we get Glennon, a top end CB like Gilmore, a RT(Wagner), a WR(Jeffery)and a S......

 

It pretty much allows for true BPA. You can take a QB at 3, if you want. Or any sort of defensive playmaker.

 

At any rate, it'd tell me we can take a QB inside the first 4 rounds almost definitely, along with a CB, a TE, and depth elsewhere.....

[WrigleyField 22]

If we get Glennon, a top end CB like Gilmore, a RT(Wagner), a WR(Jeffery)and a S......

 

It pretty much allows for true BPA. You can take a QB at 3, if you want. Or any sort of defensive playmaker.

 

At any rate, it'd tell me we can take a QB inside the first 4 rounds almost definitely, along with a CB, a TE, and depth elsewhere.....

If we arent sold on a QB at 3 a trade down would be pretty apealing for the right price.

[davell]

If we get Glennon, a top end CB like Gilmore, a RT(Wagner), a WR(Jeffery)and a S......

 

It pretty much allows for true BPA. You can take a QB at 3, if you want. Or any sort of defensive playmaker.

 

At any rate, it'd tell me we can take a QB inside the first 4 rounds almost definitely, along with a CB, a TE, and depth elsewhere.....

If we arent sold on a QB at 3 a trade down would be pretty apealing for the right price.

 

I would LOVE to trade down. I just don't see a team trading up to 3. What are they moving up FOR?