Cubs add Chapman for Torres, et al. imb wishes we paid more

[Cubbie Swagger]

There's a big difference between this and the Castro thing.

 

Castro's was a matter of an alleged rape. The question was did it happen or was it somebody trying to cash in (I'm not taking either side, just stating the argument.)

 

Chapman's is we know that he committed this atrocious act; do we root for him anyway?

you are a [expletive] idiot and should feel bad about it

You're a really nice person.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

I really am a bundle of joy

[imb]

There's a big difference between this and the Castro thing.

 

Castro's was a matter of an alleged rape. The question was did it happen or was it somebody trying to cash in (I'm not taking either side, just stating the argument.)

 

Chapman's is we know that he committed this atrocious act; do we root for him anyway?

you are a [expletive] idiot and should feel bad about it

You're a really nice person.

 

he had some bad Barton's last night

[Banedon]

Murderers and child molesters get out of prison in only a few years, and then they continue on with their lives. That's how it works.

 

Oh, is that how it works? Murders and child molesters get out and then they have no troubles after that? No trouble getting jobs or anything? They don't have to register with authorities, or attend therapy, or notify neighbors about their past? They just get out and move along as normal?

[Bull]

Murderers and child molesters get out of prison in only a few years, and then they continue on with their lives. That's how it works.

 

Oh, is that how it works? Murders and child molesters get out and then they have no troubles after that? No trouble getting jobs or anything? They don't have to register with authorities, or attend therapy, or notify neighbors about their past? They just get out and move along as normal?

bitter?

[Tracer Bullet]

Are we positive this isn't the bum again?

[Cubbie Swagger]

Murderers and child molesters get out of prison in only a few years, and then they continue on with their lives. That's how it works.

 

Oh, is that how it works? Murders and child molesters get out and then they have no troubles after that? No trouble getting jobs or anything? They don't have to register with authorities, or attend therapy, or notify neighbors about their past? They just get out and move along as normal?

Sex offenders have to register, obviously. Sometimes they have to attend therapy, etc. but I believe that's a case-to-case basis.

 

Murderers cop a plea for 12 years and serve 6. Maybe even less due to overcrowding. They get out on parole and as long as they don't commit any more crimes or fail any drug tests, they go about their life as normal.

 

As far as difficulty finding a job, that can be overblown at times. There are some jobs and careers that you will be automatically eliminated from if you are a convicted felon. There are other jobs and careers where it makes no difference. There are lawyers that are convicted felons. There are lawyers that are convicted sex offenders.

 

There are a couple of other factors besides the actual conviction that make it hard for many ex-cons to find decent long-term work. One is that many of them have spent their lives being criminals, so they have no education, no work history, and no real skills. The other is that convicted felons are not allowed to receive student loans. So, unless you're rich enough to pay out of pocket, it's not possible to go to school.

[Tracer Bullet]

Murderers and child molesters get out of prison in only a few years, and then they continue on with their lives. That's how it works.

 

Oh, is that how it works? Murders and child molesters get out and then they have no troubles after that? No trouble getting jobs or anything? They don't have to register with authorities, or attend therapy, or notify neighbors about their past? They just get out and move along as normal?

Sex offenders have to register, obviously. Sometimes they have to attend therapy, etc. but I believe that's a case-to-case basis.

 

Murderers cop a plea for 12 years and serve 6. Maybe even less due to overcrowding. They get out on parole and as long as they don't commit any more crimes or fail any drug tests, they go about their life as normal.

 

As far as difficulty finding a job, that can be overblown at times. There are some jobs and careers that you will be automatically eliminated from if you are a convicted felon. There are other jobs and careers where it makes no difference. There are lawyers that are convicted felons. There are lawyers that are convicted sex offenders.

 

There are a couple of other factors besides the actual conviction that make it hard for many ex-cons to find decent long-term work. One is that many of them have spent their lives being criminals, so they have no education, no work history, and no real skills. The other is that convicted felons are not allowed to receive student loans. So, unless you're rich enough to pay out of pocket, it's not possible to go to school.

 

Will you stop talking out your ass and just making horsefeathers up as you go?

 

Also, Chapmand wasn't arrested, charged, or convicted. He didn't go to jail. He also has an elite skill that is worth millions. So comparing him to a murderer looking for work is stupid.

[Cubbie Swagger]

Will you stop talking out your ass and just making [expletive] up as you go?

Are you going to quit being an horsefeathers any time soon? No?

 

Everything I just said was true, so I'm not totally sure what you're getting at.

 

Also, Chapmand wasn't arrested, charged, or convicted. He didn't go to jail. He also has an elite skill that is worth millions. So comparing him to a murderer looking for work is stupid.

Listing a bunch of ways that he is different from a murderer doesn't change my point. The only comparison I was making is that once someone has received their punishment for doing something, that's the end of it.

[Agony and Ivy]

Murderers and child molesters get out of prison in only a few years, and then they continue on with their lives. That's how it works.

 

Oh, is that how it works? Murders and child molesters get out and then they have no troubles after that? No trouble getting jobs or anything? They don't have to register with authorities, or attend therapy, or notify neighbors about their past? They just get out and move along as normal?

 

Matt Bush is a pretty bad dude and even went to prison...and by bad guy I mean a really bad guy. He beat the horsefeathers out of a high schooler with a golf club, ran over the head of a 74 year old while drunk, is a suspect in multiple hit and runs and has run up a tidy 3 DUIs in his lifetime. It's weird that he's portrayed in the media as some feel good story. He shouldn't be allowed to play Major League Baseball but he throws hard...and is white? This is how our society works.

[Banedon]

Murderers and child molesters get out of prison in only a few years, and then they continue on with their lives. That's how it works.

 

Oh, is that how it works? Murders and child molesters get out and then they have no troubles after that? No trouble getting jobs or anything? They don't have to register with authorities, or attend therapy, or notify neighbors about their past? They just get out and move along as normal?

 

Matt Bush is a pretty bad dude and even went to prison...and by bad guy I mean a really bad guy. He beat the [expletive] out of a high schooler with a golf club, ran over the head of a 74 year old while drunk, is a suspect in multiple hit and runs and has run up a tidy 3 DUIs in his lifetime. It's weird that he's portrayed in the media as some feel good story. He shouldn't be allowed to play Major League Baseball but he throws hard...and is white? This is how our society works.

 

I'll admit I don't know much about Matt Bush, but assuming everything you said is accurate, that dude should never have played again.

[Ding Dong Johnson]

"Mr. Bush, I see a big gap in dates on your resume. can you fill me in on what you were doing those years?"

[Agony and Ivy]

"Mr. Bush, I see a big gap in dates on your resume. can you fill me in on what you were doing those years?"

 

"Basically I've just been doing arts and crafts."

[David]

Murderers and child molesters get out of prison in only a few years, and then they continue on with their lives. That's how it works.

 

Oh, is that how it works? Murders and child molesters get out and then they have no troubles after that? No trouble getting jobs or anything? They don't have to register with authorities, or attend therapy, or notify neighbors about their past? They just get out and move along as normal?

 

Matt Bush is a pretty bad dude and even went to prison...and by bad guy I mean a really bad guy. He beat the [expletive] out of a high schooler with a golf club, ran over the head of a 74 year old while drunk, is a suspect in multiple hit and runs and has run up a tidy 3 DUIs in his lifetime. It's weird that he's portrayed in the media as some feel good story. He shouldn't be allowed to play Major League Baseball but he throws hard...and is white? This is how our society works.

 

I think the main reason for that being portrayed as a redemption story is that he has cleaned himself up and got sober, did serious time, and the 74 year old himself had gone to visit him in jail and forgave him IIRC. So people think it's cool that he's managed to clean up and salvage a little bit of a career. I hadn't heard the thing about beating the crap out of the kid with the golf club, though.

[JennieGarthAlgar]

I went for a long run last night and had time to think about things. I was wrong to try to diminish what happened. I was blinded by my love for this team and the excitement of adding a player of Chapman's caliber to it made me take a stance that I wouldn't ever normally take. I do think that in our society (and on the internet in general) there is a rush to judgement without knowing all of the facts, although enough is known here to realize that Chapman is a scumbag that doesn't deserve my support. I genuinely am sorry for upsetting anyone here based on the things I wrote or shared in this thread. It makes me sick to think that while trying to make a point I came across as someone who defends a batterer. Thats not who I am or how I was raised.

 

I do love this board and 99% of the contributors on it and I hope this can be an example of how reasoned debate can open a person's eyes to the correct way of thinking. Thank you guys for that, truly.

[Tracer Bullet]

 

Oh, is that how it works? Murders and child molesters get out and then they have no troubles after that? No trouble getting jobs or anything? They don't have to register with authorities, or attend therapy, or notify neighbors about their past? They just get out and move along as normal?

 

Matt Bush is a pretty bad dude and even went to prison...and by bad guy I mean a really bad guy. He beat the [expletive] out of a high schooler with a golf club, ran over the head of a 74 year old while drunk, is a suspect in multiple hit and runs and has run up a tidy 3 DUIs in his lifetime. It's weird that he's portrayed in the media as some feel good story. He shouldn't be allowed to play Major League Baseball but he throws hard...and is white? This is how our society works.

 

I think the main reason for that being portrayed as a redemption story is that he has cleaned himself up and got sober, did serious time, and the 74 year old himself had gone to visit him in jail and forgave him IIRC. So people think it's cool that he's managed to clean up and salvage a little bit of a career. I hadn't heard the thing about beating the crap out of the kid with the golf club, though.

 

I would probably feel differently if Chapman had gone to jail for choking and threatening a woman and then made some discernible progress toward being a better human. But we have no evidence of that and he didn't really get punished (a fine, which is basically what he got, when you make as much as Chapman does and are about to sign a huge contract isn't a real punishment). His statement doesn't indicate real remorse or even acknowledgement of what he did. I understand why he doesn't want to admit what he did, but without taking full responsibility and making any sort of positive action (donate a few million to charities that assist domestic abuse victims), then I'll continue to feel like he's a piece of horsefeathers.

[Tracer Bullet]

I went for a long run last night and had time to think about things. I was wrong to try to diminish what happened. I was blinded by my love for this team and the excitement of adding a player of Chapman's caliber to it made me take a stance that I wouldn't ever normally take. I do think that in our society (and on the internet in general) there is a rush to judgement without knowing all of the facts, although enough is known here to realize that Chapman is a scumbag that doesn't deserve my support. I genuinely am sorry for upsetting anyone here based on the things I wrote or shared in this thread. It makes me sick to think that while trying to make a point I came across as someone who defends a batterer. Thats not who I am or how I was raised.

 

I do love this board and 99% of the contributors on it and I hope this can be an example of how reasoned debate can open a person's eyes to the correct way of thinking. Thank you guys for that, truly.

 

nice post.

[Agony and Ivy]

 

Oh, is that how it works? Murders and child molesters get out and then they have no troubles after that? No trouble getting jobs or anything? They don't have to register with authorities, or attend therapy, or notify neighbors about their past? They just get out and move along as normal?

 

Matt Bush is a pretty bad dude and even went to prison...and by bad guy I mean a really bad guy. He beat the [expletive] out of a high schooler with a golf club, ran over the head of a 74 year old while drunk, is a suspect in multiple hit and runs and has run up a tidy 3 DUIs in his lifetime. It's weird that he's portrayed in the media as some feel good story. He shouldn't be allowed to play Major League Baseball but he throws hard...and is white? This is how our society works.

 

I think the main reason for that being portrayed as a redemption story is that he has cleaned himself up and got sober, did serious time, and the 74 year old himself had gone to visit him in jail and forgave him IIRC. So people think it's cool that he's managed to clean up and salvage a little bit of a career. I hadn't heard the thing about beating the crap out of the kid with the golf club, though.

 

He beat the horsefeathers out of the high school kid while yelling "I'm Matt horsefeathering Bush!" and it's on video.

 

The point isn't to excuse Chapman it's to say that the only people who truly know what happened are saying nothing physically harmful happened. I think it's safe to assume no stable human being would just fire off some garage shots in anger. We KNOW what a scumbag like Matt Bush did and yet he's celebrated. Chapman is probably a douche but none of us know for sure, people are free to make their judgements. I am going to unapologetically cheer my ass off for him but won't try to change anyone else's mind in the process. I also don't want anyone trying to change my mind. I do think there is a racial component to all of this when it comes to the stories being framed by the media, but I could just be suffering from reading the Chicago media constantly bash latin players over the years.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Can we all just agree that Aroldis is a very bad man but a very good pitcher and leave it at that? Because this is going to turn real ugly real quick.

[Agony and Ivy]

 

Matt Bush is a pretty bad dude and even went to prison...and by bad guy I mean a really bad guy. He beat the [expletive] out of a high schooler with a golf club, ran over the head of a 74 year old while drunk, is a suspect in multiple hit and runs and has run up a tidy 3 DUIs in his lifetime. It's weird that he's portrayed in the media as some feel good story. He shouldn't be allowed to play Major League Baseball but he throws hard...and is white? This is how our society works.

 

I think the main reason for that being portrayed as a redemption story is that he has cleaned himself up and got sober, did serious time, and the 74 year old himself had gone to visit him in jail and forgave him IIRC. So people think it's cool that he's managed to clean up and salvage a little bit of a career. I hadn't heard the thing about beating the crap out of the kid with the golf club, though.

 

I would probably feel differently if Chapman had gone to jail for choking and threatening a woman and then made some discernible progress toward being a better human. But we have no evidence of that and he didn't really get punished (a fine, which is basically what he got, when you make as much as Chapman does and are about to sign a huge contract isn't a real punishment). His statement doesn't indicate real remorse or even acknowledgement of what he did. I understand why he doesn't want to admit what he did, but without taking full responsibility and making any sort of positive action (donate a few million to charities that assist domestic abuse victims), then I'll continue to feel like he's a piece of [expletive].

 

IF he didn't do anything why would he passively admit it? His girlfriend has said it didn't happen and she stayed with him. I know that means nothing because I've had friends in terribly abusive relationships for years and none of us knew, but it's what we have to go on.

[Rex Buckingham]

I will root for Chapman to be amazing. I hope that we treat him like the Brewers treated Sabathia. Throw him every time you possibly can for as long as he dominates. Then, let his scumbag self go in the offseason after we've hopefully won a WS. Look, even if he never put his hands on a woman (which is incredibly unlikely) he never denied discharging his weapon in the garage, which might even be scarier for a woman to know that he blows off steam by firing his gun and having to think that maybe one day he will blow his top and turn the gun toward her. I hate that we are now tied to this lunatic, but as long as he is here he might as well pitch great.

[imb]

Can we all just agree that Aroldis is a very bad man but a very good pitcher and leave it at that? Because this is going to turn real ugly real quick.

 

Have you missed the last 40 pages?

[minnesotacubsfan]

You know what absolutely sucks? We have an amazing bullpen with guys that can throw 97-105 and I have totally mixed feelings about it. Ugggh

[Post Count Padder]

You know what absolutely sucks? We have an amazing bullpen with guys that can throw 97-105 and I have totally mixed feelings about it. Ugggh

Yeah, I've spent the better part of the past 2 days rationalizing this move to myself and feel kinda sick that I'm doing that. This guy is scum vs. god I want a WS win. Gonna be even more disheartening if we don't win it and he leaves after the season.

[Tracer Bullet]

 

I think the main reason for that being portrayed as a redemption story is that he has cleaned himself up and got sober, did serious time, and the 74 year old himself had gone to visit him in jail and forgave him IIRC. So people think it's cool that he's managed to clean up and salvage a little bit of a career. I hadn't heard the thing about beating the crap out of the kid with the golf club, though.

 

I would probably feel differently if Chapman had gone to jail for choking and threatening a woman and then made some discernible progress toward being a better human. But we have no evidence of that and he didn't really get punished (a fine, which is basically what he got, when you make as much as Chapman does and are about to sign a huge contract isn't a real punishment). His statement doesn't indicate real remorse or even acknowledgement of what he did. I understand why he doesn't want to admit what he did, but without taking full responsibility and making any sort of positive action (donate a few million to charities that assist domestic abuse victims), then I'll continue to feel like he's a piece of [expletive].

 

IF he didn't do anything why would he passively admit it? His girlfriend has said it didn't happen and she stayed with him. I know that means nothing because I've had friends in terribly abusive relationships for years and none of us knew, but it's what we have to go on.

 

No, it's not what we have to go on. We have her statement to the police that he put her hands around her neck and threatened her. Only later, as almost always happens, did she change her story and decide not to cooperate. (As others pointed out, her alternative likely was what? Return to Cuba?) If he didn't do anything, why would he accept the suspension? He didn't get suspended 30 games for breaking his own car window and shooting his garage. We also have his statement vaguely apologizing for actions. If all he did was shoot up his garage, it'd be pretty easy to apologize for that thing he's already admitted to doing and wouldn't subject him to further legal action. "I lost my temper and used poor judgment in shooting a gun in my garage. I apologize for putting people in danger by not exercising better judgment with a firearm." He's intentionally being vague because admitting to choking his girlfriend would probably get him arrested.

 

If you want to look past domestic abuse because he pitches for your favorite team, that's up to you. But own it. My issue is with those that pretend we don't know enough or diminish his actions because they don't want to face reality.