New Benny, and Other changes (Bulls offseason)

[Cubbie Swagger]

 

I agree that actually landing a name for once looks good, but the bold part seems like nonsense. Whet the hell are they supposed to do to accomplish this?

I like how you're asking me how to be nice to a person, as if you don't even know where to start.

 

No, I'm not; I'm asking how a professional sports organization is supposed to do something as ridiculous as "pamper" a player so everyone notices without looking like a bunch of pathetic, overcompensating goons. As others have pointed out, the narratives of the Bulls mistreating their players seems pretty overblown, so I'm confident they can simply act like normal human beings and have a pretty standard professional and personal relationship with Wade.

As usual, you are putting way too much effort into splitting hairs on my wording.

 

I'm saying you be nice to the guy and don't horsefeathers him over, so he will speak highly of us. I'm not talking about rolling out a horsefeathering red carpet and making a huge production for the world to see.

[Sammy Sofa]

I'm saying you be nice to the guy and don't [expletive] him over, so he will speak highly of us. I'm not talking about rolling out a [expletive] red carpet and making a huge production for the world to see.

 

Great, then when you're hoping for is SOP, which we have no reason to assume they wouldn't be doing anyway. Glad to see that's settled.

[Cubbie Swagger]

well yeah..i can't imagine what they'd do that they don't already do for any top tier players.

We need to not do what Pat Riley just did, for one.

 

OK? The Bulls DON'T have a legitimate history of being at odds with their players. Noah's departure was probably the "worst" thing along those lines, and that was simply making a break from a player whose contract was up.

Our bad rep may be overstated, I'm not sure. But this is what I do know: it's kinda silly of us, as fans, to sit here and act like we are privy to this kind of stuff. You have no idea what goes on behind closed doors or who we have pissed off in the past. I find it hard to believe that these claims are completely unfounded.

[Cubbie Swagger]

Something I should add: Don't forget Thibs.

 

The perception around the league is that we fucked that whole thing up and basically ran him out of town. And that just happened recently.

[Sammy Sofa]

Given how gossip-y and porous the NBA is when it comes to these kind of things, yeah, it seems pretty unfounded. It seems people are conflating the tumultuous relationship the FO has had with their coaches with how they get along with their players.

 

Point is, initially it was sounding like you were saying signing Wade was an opportunity for them to really go out of their way and make a show of going above and beyond in making a player feel welcome instead of just, y'know, acting like normal, professional human beings and managing to get along fine with him like FO's and players typically do.

[Sammy Sofa]

Something I should add: Don't forget Thibs.

 

The perception around the league is that we [expletive] that whole thing up and basically ran him out of town. And that just happened recently.

 

But that's hardly exceptional; most team/coach relationships end pretty badly short of the guy being a beloved figure who retires on top or before he can be fired. If anything, the relationship with Vinnie is far more glaring as being unusual and potentially something that'd have to make up for, but fortunately VDN did them the favor of continuing to be terrible post-Bulls, so nobody likely really cares.

[Cubbie Swagger]

Something I should add: Don't forget Thibs.

 

The perception around the league is that we [expletive] that whole thing up and basically ran him out of town. And that just happened recently.

 

But that's hardly exceptional; most team/coach relationships end pretty badly short of the guy being a beloved figure who retires on top or before he can be fired. If anything, the relationship with Vinnie is far more glaring as being unusual and potentially something that'd have to make up for, but fortunately VDN did them the favor of continuing to be terrible post-Bulls, so nobody likely really cares.

I think the Thibs thing was a much bigger deal than usual.

[weis21]

Something I should add: Don't forget Thibs.

 

The perception around the league is that we [expletive] that whole thing up and basically ran him out of town. And that just happened recently.

a front office and a coach at odds is not something unique to the bulls (and even then, using your mentality, "who knows what happens behind closed doors"). this is fairly common across every league and sport. i seriously doubt any player in any league/sport considers past relationships with the FO and former coaches when determining a location to sign.

 

they are going to look at the current roster, the current coach, the current FO (probably to a much lesser extent), future projections of team success, and money. that's it.

 

ETA: Plus, what mojo just said

[davell]

The rep thing is definitely still there. You had Mike calling Wade and ask if he's sure he wanted to come to Chicago.

[Sammy Sofa]

Something I should add: Don't forget Thibs.

 

The perception around the league is that we [expletive] that whole thing up and basically ran him out of town. And that just happened recently.

 

But that's hardly exceptional; most team/coach relationships end pretty badly short of the guy being a beloved figure who retires on top or before he can be fired. If anything, the relationship with Vinnie is far more glaring as being unusual and potentially something that'd have to make up for, but fortunately VDN did them the favor of continuing to be terrible post-Bulls, so nobody likely really cares.

I think the Thibs thing was a much bigger deal than usual.

 

That seems more like a proximity bias than anything else.

[Cubbie Swagger]

 

But that's hardly exceptional; most team/coach relationships end pretty badly short of the guy being a beloved figure who retires on top or before he can be fired. If anything, the relationship with Vinnie is far more glaring as being unusual and potentially something that'd have to make up for, but fortunately VDN did them the favor of continuing to be terrible post-Bulls, so nobody likely really cares.

I think the Thibs thing was a much bigger deal than usual.

 

That seems more like a proximity bias than anything else.

I was actually thinking the exact opposite. I reserve the right to be wrong, though.

 

What I'm saying is I feel like the national media has a different view of the situation than we do locally. Locally, we had been hearing reports of unrest between Thibs and the front office regularly for like 2 years, and I think we have a little more insight into what actually happened. Nationally, people don't quite understand, and they pretty much see it as just, "they screwed over Thibs". And, again, none of us even know the REAL story, and I'm not sure how many around the NBA know.

 

Another example of this is the Rose situation. People outside of Chicago don't realize that we've wanted Rose gone for a long time, and that lots of us pretty much hate him as a person. All they see is his highlight reel plays on Sportscenter, and they think he's this remarkable comeback story, hometown kid, etc.

[Sammy Sofa]

Well, just to boil it down further to my own proximity bias, I work outside of DC and it's a very transient area in terms of people living here from all over the place. We have ESPN on in my office all day, and you're lucky to have more than two fans of the same team in there at any given time. When Rose to the Knicks came up, the general things people said to me had to do with how he was seen as a bust due to his injuries and that going to the Knicks was basically like being banished to Siberia. I don't think anyone really sees Rose as much beyond a longshot on a crappy team at this point.

 

Thibs never even came up. Outside of showing up on the panel shows for a couple days, that was it. Nobody really cared, mainly because the Bulls were a nothing team at that point. Basically it was little more than, "the FO and the coach haven't gotten along for a while; now they're firing him after a disappointing season." In short, something you see every year in the NBA.

[weis21]

Thibs never even came up. Outside of showing up on the panel shows for a couple days, that was it. Nobody really cared, mainly because the Bulls were a nothing team at that point. Basically it was little more than, "the FO and the coach haven't gotten along for a while; now they're firing him after a disappointing season." In short, something you see every year in the NBA.

exactly. no player gives a damn about previous coaches being fired.

 

CubbieSwagger, do you think NFL players have this same mentality? What's the turnover in NFL coaches on a season-by-season basis?

[Cubbie Swagger]

Well, just to boil it down further to my own proximity bias, I work outside of DC and it's a very transient area in terms of people living here from all over the place. We have ESPN on in my office all day, and you're lucky to have more than two fans of the same team in there at any given time. When Rose to the Knicks came up, the general things people said to me had to do with how he was seen as a bust due to his injuries and that going to the Knicks was basically like being banished to Siberia. I don't think anyone really sees Rose as much beyond a longshot on a crappy team at this point.

 

Thibs never even came up. Outside of showing up on the panel shows for a couple days, that was it. Nobody really cared, mainly because the Bulls were a nothing team at that point. Basically it was little more than, "the FO and the coach haven't gotten along for a while; now they're firing him after a disappointing season." In short, something you see every year in the NBA.

Okay, you're right, nationally they do know all about the injuries. Obviously I see the memes. The funniest one was a Knicks meme that had like TMac, Baron Davis, Steve Francis, Penny Hardaway, Stephon Marbury and Rose. But nationally they don't know about how the city has turned on him due to his comments, his attitude, taking plays off in the playoffs, etc.

 

CubbieSwagger, do you think NFL players have this same mentality? What's the turnover in NFL coaches on a season-by-season basis?

I actually know basically nothing about football.

Edited July 10, 2016 by Cubbie Swagger

[SpongeWorthy]

when thibs starts kicking ass in minnesota (and he will) the perception will be "why did these knuckleheads fire him?"

 

it's easier to sweep it under the rug when the guy is out of coaching.

[Sammy Sofa]

Okay, you're right, nationally they do know all about the injuries. Obviously I see the memes. The funniest one was a Knicks meme that had like TMac, Baron Davis, Steve Francis, Penny Hardaway, Stephon Marbury and Rose. But nationally they don't know about how the city has turned on him due to his comments, his attitude, taking plays off in the playoffs, etc.

 

Nah, him opting to sit out and missing more time than expected was actually big news when it happened. Rose has had a rep as a bust long before his time as a Bull came to an end, sadly. There's few people out there thinking the Bulls gave Rose a raw deal or treated him bad.

[Sammy Sofa]

when thibs starts kicking ass in minnesota (and he will) the perception will be "why did these knuckleheads fire him?"

 

it's easier to sweep it under the rug when the guy is out of coaching.

 

There's nothing to sweep under the rug.

 

People seem to be drastically overestimating how much attention people outside of Chicago pay to the Bulls; the Rose stuff got play because he was expected become such a superstar (and was, for a brief time). Everything else is mostly only cared about by spiteful monsters like ssr.

[Cubbie Swagger]

Okay, you're right, nationally they do know all about the injuries. Obviously I see the memes. The funniest one was a Knicks meme that had like TMac, Baron Davis, Steve Francis, Penny Hardaway, Stephon Marbury and Rose. But nationally they don't know about how the city has turned on him due to his comments, his attitude, taking plays off in the playoffs, etc.

 

Nah, him opting to sit out and missing more time than expected was actually big news when it happened. Rose has had a rep as a bust long before his time as a Bull came to an end, sadly. There's few people out there thinking the Bulls gave Rose a raw deal or treated him bad.

Just to be clear, I wasn't implying that Rose was mistreated or anything. I was just making a side comment about the local vs national media aspect. It's just been my personal experience from talking to a few fans from other cities that people didn't seem to realize that there were lots of issues besides the actual injuries. If that's not true, then... oh well.

[Sammy Sofa]

Okay, you're right, nationally they do know all about the injuries. Obviously I see the memes. The funniest one was a Knicks meme that had like TMac, Baron Davis, Steve Francis, Penny Hardaway, Stephon Marbury and Rose. But nationally they don't know about how the city has turned on him due to his comments, his attitude, taking plays off in the playoffs, etc.

 

Nah, him opting to sit out and missing more time than expected was actually big news when it happened. Rose has had a rep as a bust long before his time as a Bull came to an end, sadly. There's few people out there thinking the Bulls gave Rose a raw deal or treated him bad.

Just to be clear, I wasn't implying that Rose was mistreated or anything. I was just making a side comment about the local vs national media aspect. It's just been my personal experience from talking to a few fans from other cities that people didn't seem to realize that there were lots of issues besides the actual injuries. If that's not true, then... oh well.

 

Oh, you're definitely right about how most of this stuff doesn't hit nationally; Rose was an exception. Just to bring it back to DC again, the Wizards had a horrendous year where they drastically underperformed, and the talk here would have you thinking it was an absurd soap opera that was so humiliating, yet it wasn't barely ever a blip on the national radar.

[SpongeWorthy]

when thibs starts kicking ass in minnesota (and he will) the perception will be "why did these knuckleheads fire him?"

 

it's easier to sweep it under the rug when the guy is out of coaching.

 

There's nothing to sweep under the rug.

 

People seem to be drastically overestimating how much attention people outside of Chicago pay to the Bulls; the Rose stuff got play because he was expected become such a superstar (and was, for a brief time). Everything else is mostly only cared about by spiteful monsters like ssr.

 

KAT will become a top 5 player as soon as next season, minny will win way more games than anyone expected, and we will all have to collectively reacknowledge the greatness of tom thibodeau

[Sammy Sofa]

when thibs starts kicking ass in minnesota (and he will) the perception will be "why did these knuckleheads fire him?"

 

it's easier to sweep it under the rug when the guy is out of coaching.

 

There's nothing to sweep under the rug.

 

People seem to be drastically overestimating how much attention people outside of Chicago pay to the Bulls; the Rose stuff got play because he was expected become such a superstar (and was, for a brief time). Everything else is mostly only cared about by spiteful monsters like ssr.

 

KAT will become a top 5 player as soon as next season, minny will win way more games than anyone expected, and we will all have to collectively reacknowledge the greatness of tom thibodeau

 

I have little doubt that Thibs and Minnesota will do really well for a few years. That Thibs had been the coach of the Bulls probably isn't going to be a big focus of that story nationally.

[Sammy Sofa]

Look at it this way: how often has the controversy of Maddon going from the Rays to the Cubs followed them throughout the season? Nobody cared about that after about, what, a week?

[Cubbie Swagger]

Look at it this way: how often has the controversy of Maddon going from the Rays to the Cubs followed them throughout the season? Nobody cared about that after about, what, a week?

That's a pretty weird analogy, but I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing with you.

[Sammy Sofa]

Look at it this way: how often has the controversy of Maddon going from the Rays to the Cubs followed them throughout the season? Nobody cared about that after about, what, a week?

That's a pretty weird analogy, but I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing with you.

 

It's a coach who went from one team to another under what was perceived by many as controversial circumstances and ultimately it didn't turn out to be much of a story despite getting a decent amount of attention while it went down and shortly afterwards. Why would Thibs getting fired and being hired by Minnesota be so much more scandalous or so much more of a story? The point is that it's ultimately not that big a deal, and odds are, outside of the local press for the teams and fans involved, it's not going to mean much of anything to everyone else.

[Cubbie Swagger]

Look at it this way: how often has the controversy of Maddon going from the Rays to the Cubs followed them throughout the season? Nobody cared about that after about, what, a week?

That's a pretty weird analogy, but I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing with you.

 

It's a coach who went from one team to another under what was perceived by many as controversial circumstances and ultimately it didn't turn out to be much of a story despite getting a decent amount of attention while it went down and shortly afterwards. Why would Thibs getting fired and being hired by Minnesota be so much more scandalous or so much more of a story? The point is that it's ultimately not that big a deal, and odds are, outside of the local press for the teams and fans involved, it's not going to mean much of anything to everyone else.

I feel like we aren't even talking about anything.