Better Javy, KB, Zobrist defense?

[Gmoney08]

I think Javy is earning a lot of PT for this team.

 

There is 2 options of lineups with Javy that we will see a lot.

 

What is better defensively for the team. Javy 3b, KB LF and Zobrist at 2b vs KB 3b, Zobrisy LF and Javy at 2B?

 

I think Javy is an easy upgrade over both guys at both infield positions but KB may very well be the better OF over Zobrist because of speed an arm at this point. So im kinda leaning toward 3b javy.

[Thrilho]

Just posted this in the game thread so I'll memorialize it here even though I could probably do better if I wasn't on my phone:

 

 

The missing part there is Bryant vs Zobrist in the outfield. With Bryant's speed I think he be a big plus in the outfield. I'd guess Zobrist has lost some steps.

 

I'd think that the Javy would provide a bigger lift at third because of all the crazy plays his arm allow him to make. At second a big benefit is his ability to turn quick double plays, but that's the sort of skill you'd think would age well with Zobrist. He won't turn quite as many as Baez would, but the plays Baez is able to make at third just wouldn't get made by anyone else.

 

Also, Baez creates more double play opportunities at third, which I'd think would come close to wash with the extra turns you'd get with Baez over Zobrist at second.

 

But really it boils down to Baez having the armto make long throws from up the line or the throws on the run coming in. How many of those would have been hits with Bryant playing?

 

Also if you move Zobrist full time now he's going lose his second base skills quicker over the course of the contract. 38 year old pure outfielder Zobrist doesn't sound great. Primary concern is this year of course, but it is something.

 

Biggest thing in all of it might be your MVP candidate KB might not want to play OF all the time and putting him in LF permanently might hurt the chances of resigning him down the road. Lol just kidding I don't think that's a concern. This team is amazing and I'm guessing he enjoys watching Javy make these plays too. If it was every day that would be one thing, but if Javy's main position is third I'd guess he'll still play SS and 2nd like 30-40% of the time.

[Sammy Sofa]

I'd rather have Bryant in the OF; Zobrist is just going to keep getting older and more stump-legged.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Whatever Joe Maddon feels like sending out there.

[Tim]

Bryant is a damn fine 3B. Zobrist is meh at 2B at this point. Defense at 2B is more important than at 3B is more important than at LF.

 

This is easy.

 

Put the best defender (Baez) at the most important position (2B).

 

Put the next best defender (Bryant) at the next most important position (3B).

 

Put Zobrist where he'll hurt the team the least in the field (LF).

[Omar]

The truth of whats about to unfold:

[Gilby]

I keep Bryant at 3B. I admit my desire to see Bryant eclipse 7 wins might be clouding my judgment, but I still think it makes the most sense to move the worst infielder of the bunch (Zobrist) to the easiest position on the diamond. LF in Wrigley isn't hard to play (unless you're Soler (sick burn)) and I'd argue Zobrist's loss in quickness is more impactful at 2B than it would be in LF. He's super sure-handed which helps, but man he's slow around the base.

[Bull]

The obvious answer is to play Javy everywhere. I don't mean a different position each night. I mean:

 

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[KrisBryantisaBeast]

I wouldn't mind seeing Javy get some playing time at shortstop as well since he's currently our most impressive defender on the infield.

[Cubswin11]

I wouldn't mind seeing Javy get some playing time at shortstop as well since he's currently our most impressive defender on the infield.

At best he's even with Russell at SS, I think Russell is better though.

[Gmoney08]

I also want Javy to keep getting reps in the OF.

[Gmoney08]

I wouldn't mind seeing Javy get some playing time at shortstop as well since he's currently our most impressive defender on the infield.

At best he's even with Russell at SS, I think Russell is better though.

 

I actually think Javy is slightly better even at SS. His arm is decently better and range slightly better.

 

Russell might be more consistent there at this exact moment but id bet Javy would be the better prime SS.

[KrisBryantisaBeast]

I wouldn't mind seeing Javy get some playing time at shortstop as well since he's currently our most impressive defender on the infield.

At best he's even with Russell at SS, I think Russell is better though.

 

It might just be recency bias on my part but it seems like Baez has a better arm and more range. That botched double play by Russell might be clouding my judgement of him though.

[Aaron_Kennelly]

Whatever Joe Maddon feels like sending out there.

 

Yeah, I've tried breaking this all down. I waver. I understand why they've done what they've done so far. I wish to have the most sexy possible combination, too, though. So I am just not even gonna worry anymore. We are awesome. Our defense will be awesome regardless of where guys are at. Just stick them out there and let them make plays. It's not even worth stressing over.

[Thrilho]

Bryant is a damn fine 3B. Zobrist is meh at 2B at this point. Defense at 2B is more important than at 3B is more important than at LF.

 

This is easy.

 

Put the best defender (Baez) at the most important position (2B).

 

Put the next best defender (Bryant) at the next most important position (3B).

 

Put Zobrist where he'll hurt the team the least in the field (LF).

 

I'm not sure it's well established that 2B defense is more important than 3B defense. Fangraphs has them with the same 2.5 positional adjustment. Then, I'm not sure how to compare the defensive stats best across positions, but the leaderboard of each seems to have more third basemen than second basemen.

 

- DEF (the defensive side of fWAR) there are 7 third basement before you see the first second baseman at 34th. The top defensive third baseman (Beltre) had a 14.0 vs the top second baseman (Gordon)'s 8.6.

 

- UZR/150 has 6 third baseman before the first second baseman at 30. Beltre at 13.0 vs Gordon's 6.7

 

- DRS has Kinlser at 7th with 19, one higher than Beltre's 18. Total of 6 third basemen in the top 30 vs 3 second basemen.

 

That may just be the state of the league right now, but I'd rather have an elite third baseman than second baseman. It just seems like they can create more plays that wouldn't be there otherwise. Also, I think shifting and positioning reduces the value of a good second baseman.

 

But all that stuff is in the abstract. I just think Javy is an out of this world third baseman and a very good second baseman. His UZR/150s for 2015 and 2016 are pretty small samples, but I believe what they're telling me. Here is where everyone stands on UZR/150:

 

 

Javy

3B - 2015: 70.1 2016: 32.9

2B - 2015: 5.1 2016: 0.0

 

* 2016: 14 innings at 2B vs 31 innings at 3B. 2015 59 innings at wB vs 64 innings at 3B. SSS!!!

 

Bryant

3B - 2015: 5.4 2016: 24.4

LF - 2015: 41.4 2016: 22.4

OF - 2015: 21.2 2016: 19.4

* Bryant had 98 innings in 2015 of which 39 came in left. 67 so far this year, of which 61 have come in left

 

Zobrist

2B - 2015: -13.3 2016: 5.7

LF - 2015: -19.0 2016: ?

OF - 2015: -15.1 2016: ?

 

* Zobrist had 380 innings in OF, of which 346 came in left

 

 

To me, with the eye test it looks like Baez could be an elite third baseman, maybe the best in the game. The numbers definitely agree there. I think at second base he's looked very good but hasn't made that many plays where you'd say another average guy wouldn't have made it. That may be why he's not getting quite the UZR/150 love there. It may be that the position of second base doesn't allow him to unleash his arm to create game changing plays as often. Maybe quick turns and his range there don't actually create as many runs as what he does at third. I'm not sure, and I'll be interested to see it shake out once we get more data, but that's what I'd bet on.

 

Then, look at Bryant awesome in the outfield. Heyward had a UZR/150 of 22.3 vs Bryant's 21.2. He could be a difference maker in left too. And again, I'd guess he'd still get to play third maybe 40% of the time even if Baez found a quasi-home at third.

 

Then about Zobrist. I buy the -15 in the outfield last year. He's big and seems pretty slow going down the line. He hasn't been terrible at second so far, and has been picking it up a bit lately. The 5.7 doesn't seem too far off. Then there's the fact that Maddon hasn't played him out there at all. Maybe it's the deal they made, but I wouldn't be surprised if Maddon just prefers Bryant out there and is getting Bryant mentally ready for the switch.

 

All these points, but if Joe puts Baez at second I'll be cool. Definitely not a topic I'm going to get all entrenched on. I'd guess he moves around no matter where he plays and dominates at everything.

[Thrilho]

One other thing I thought of while re-watching these plays from tonight. One reason Baez is charging everything is he's positioned near the outfield grass. If Joe can consistently position him that deep he's got the potential to rob all kinds of hits. I like Bryant a lot as a third baseman, but that one down the line probably would have been a double. Baez is off the line about 10 feet and in from the grass maybe 5 feet, so he's got a bunch more time to get there.

 

I'd guess a fair number of really good third basemen have the arm to play back there, but they don't have the athleticism to make the play coming in. That backhand play in the ninth Javy made look easy. Bryant probably would have had it too, it just wouldn't have looked as cool because he wouldn't have been coming from the outfield grass.

 

So not to belabor the point of which position should be the utility guy's favorite one, but was re-watching the highlights and got pretty geeked about how far back he was actually playing.

[Aaron_Kennelly]

This is really bringing me back, circa July 2014, when we sucked but we had all those awesome prospects and everyone was like, "Where are all of these shortstops going to play!?" And the answer was, as its always been, wherever the hell we want to play them. That was one thing I dreamed on, even more than the dongs... "Oh my god, we are going to have Gold Glovers everywhere." This was before we realized that Schwarber was the King Dongsmith and our minds quickly shifted to all of the dongs.

 

We've really come full circle since the Russell trade, though. After that trade, we had all these awesome shortstops that were gonna gobble up everything. We argued for days about which one had to move to third and which one to second. At the time, Bryant was irrefutably The Dongsmith. His future position was less clear. Some didn't think he could stick at third. Others thought it would be a waste to have him patrolling the outfield. It turns out, he can play third, and he if he has to play the outfield, he will be a badass out there too. And he's going to have a ton of value wherever he plays. But, we still agreed, it was great to dream on that defense we were going to trot out.

 

But, things shifted from the thought of all these amazing defenders playing all over the field. For one, Starlin and Javy proceeded to suck. Eventually, it was like, oh, so trading for Russell was a great idea, because none of our other shortstops even deserve a spot on the roster. So it looked like Bryant was staying at third, by default, even though he showed himself well there anyway. And then Schwarber unleashed his mammoth dongs all over the National League. And we began to recognize the power of the dong was enough to overcome all.

 

So now we are without our beloved dongsmith Schwarber temporarily. And, yet, we are back to where it all began: too many Gold Glovers and not enough positions to play them. Oh, boohoo, we are going to have to move our solidly above average third baseman out to the outfield so we can play one of the better shortstops in the league at third, where he is a whirling death machine with his glove and arm. The Castro/Zobrist swap complicates things a little. And Jorge sucks. But, oh yeah, we also have Jason Heyward now. Still, this thought should hold up: We are living what we dreamed about for years. We are there. It all happened. And it is even more glorious than we ever imagined.

[MWV]

This is really bringing me back, circa July 2014, when we sucked but we had all those awesome prospects and everyone was like, "Where are all of these shortstops going to play!?"

 

Oh, boohoo, we are going to have to move our solidly above average third baseman out to the outfield so we can play one of the better shortstops in the league at third, where he is a whirling death machine with his glove and arm.

 

We are living what we dreamed about for years. We are there. It all happened. And it is even more glorious than we ever imagined.

 

[Sammy Sofa]

Thrillho: best user name AND best poster?

[David]

i've done a complete 180 from where i was when he was in the minors...moving KB off 3B the majority of the time would make me sad

[sneakypower]

Defense at 2B is more important than at 3B is more important than at LF.

i do not consider this to be true

 

I actually think Javy is slightly better even at SS. His arm is decently better and range slightly better.

 

Russell might be more consistent there at this exact moment but id bet Javy would be the better prime SS.

this is insulting; for his career, Russell is +21 UZR/150, better than every other SS in baseball during that span...yes, Javy might theoretically make for a better SS except for all the errors he would sure to make

[Cubbie Swagger]

Is Zobrist okay with being moved around? I know one of his stipulations when he came here was that he wanted a regular everyday position. I figured he was kinda stuck at 2b just for that reason.

[jersey cubs fan]

Is Zobrist okay with being moved around? I know one of his stipulations when he came here was that he wanted a regular everyday position. I figured he was kinda stuck at 2b just for that reason.

What?

 

Wasn't the whole point of Zobrist that he can move around and Maddon previously used him by moving him around? It's a little late in the game for him to stop being okay with moving around.

[Cubbie Swagger]

Is Zobrist okay with being moved around? I know one of his stipulations when he came here was that he wanted a regular everyday position. I figured he was kinda stuck at 2b just for that reason.

What?

 

Wasn't the whole point of Zobrist that he can move around and Maddon previously used him by moving him around? It's a little late in the game for him to stop being okay with moving around.

Yes, but he was not okay with being "just" that guy. He made us promise him a position all to himself, and that position was second base.

[sneakypower]

Is Zobrist okay with being moved around? I know one of his stipulations when he came here was that he wanted a regular everyday position. I figured he was kinda stuck at 2b just for that reason.

What?

 

Wasn't the whole point of Zobrist that he can move around and Maddon previously used him by moving him around? It's a little late in the game for him to stop being okay with moving around.

more of the point with Zobrist is that he's an OBP machine that provides value in myriad ways, one of which might be the now occasional position shift