How they got here

[rawaction]

I am enjoying the present. Enjoying the young talent and not thinking Epstein has done a superlative job can co-exist.

 

 

I think people are overestimating our future. If they really do run off 7 playoff years in 8 starting with this one, great, I'll tip my cap to Epstein and give him all the credit for it.

 

But that isn't as much of a slam dunk as some think. Pitching is fickle and primes are shorter and earlier than people think. We could easily have more mediocre or bad seasons in our immediate future if some things go wrong or thy whiff on some decisions.

 

Agreed. But I am more optimistic that if this team wins 85 as is, that still having a strong minor league system and plenty of payroll flexibility in the future will help future teams at worst, maintain that level of play for several years. And if Rizzo stays an elite player for a couple more years and remains a good player for the rest of his contract (very reasonable), Bryant improves from an already really good player, and Schwarber is anything close to what he's shown this week, I'll take my chances on the future. Not many teams have 3 players that good, especially when they'll make minimum in salary for the next several years.

 

The one concern I do have is what was talked about earlier in this thread. They were pathetic for 3 years, and aren't like monumentally more talented than the field. That was probably unreasonable for me to expect, but the Astros tanked to a similar extent and may have more young talent to show for it. The Dodgers didn't tank, spent like a team in Chicago should be able to, and did it while not sacrificing young talent. The Cardinals have been where the Cubs want to be for several years now, and don't look like they're going anywhere anytime soon.

[Backtobanks]

I am enjoying the present. Enjoying the young talent and not thinking Epstein has done a superlative job can co-exist.

 

 

I think people are overestimating our future. If they really do run off 7 playoff years in 8 starting with this one, great, I'll tip my cap to Epstein and give him all the credit for it.

 

But that isn't as much of a slam dunk as some think. Pitching is fickle and primes are shorter and earlier than people think. We could easily have more mediocre or bad seasons in our immediate future if some things go wrong or thy whiff on some decisions.

 

Don't know you well enough to say, but it sounds like the scouting report on you is that you wouldn't tip your cap for the seven playoff seasons but instead would focus on how they didn't make the proper moves to make the playoffs in all eight.

 

I'll admit I get really frustrated with people who try to bash Epstein. Maybe it's naive, but I have total trust in the front office for the first time as a Cubs fan. I want nobody in charge more than them. Yes, they will make mistakes. It's baseball. But the process behind their ways is magical and something I dread not having whenever he and his boys leave.

 

I agree with Kyle on this one. I support Epstein, but believing that "the process behind their ways is magical" is a bit much. Front office management has changed so much in the last 10 years (because of Epstein, Beane, etc.) that I think Theo and his boys can be replaced if they choose to leave.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

I am enjoying the present. Enjoying the young talent and not thinking Epstein has done a superlative job can co-exist.

 

 

I think people are overestimating our future. If they really do run off 7 playoff years in 8 starting with this one, great, I'll tip my cap to Epstein and give him all the credit for it.

 

But that isn't as much of a slam dunk as some think. Pitching is fickle and primes are shorter and earlier than people think. We could easily have more mediocre or bad seasons in our immediate future if some things go wrong or thy whiff on some decisions.

 

Agreed. But I am more optimistic that if this team wins 85 as is, that still having a strong minor league system and plenty of payroll flexibility in the future will help future teams at worst, maintain that level of play for several years. And if Rizzo stays an elite player for a couple more years and remains a good player for the rest of his contract (very reasonable), Bryant improves from an already really good player, and Schwarber is anything close to what he's shown this week, I'll take my chances on the future. Not many teams have 3 players that good, especially when they'll make minimum in salary for the next several years.

 

The one concern I do have is what was talked about earlier in this thread. They were pathetic for 3 years, and aren't like monumentally more talented than the field. That was probably unreasonable for me to expect, but the Astros tanked to a similar extent and may have more young talent to show for it. The Dodgers didn't tank, spent like a team in Chicago should be able to, and did it while not sacrificing young talent. The Cardinals have been where the Cubs want to be for several years now, and don't look like they're going anywhere anytime soon.

 

You must keep in mind, though, that of course they aren't going to be monumentally better than the field the first year. We are being led by players 25 and younger who haven't even come close to being the players they will be but who already are performing at a really high level for their age. I totally expect the Cubs to be monumentally better than almost anybody in the relatively near future. But even before they get there, they are a playoff contender who has to be one of the most entertaining teams in MLB to watch.

 

The scary thing is you mention Rizzo, Bryant and Schwarber and never even got to Russell and perhaps Soler.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

I am enjoying the present. Enjoying the young talent and not thinking Epstein has done a superlative job can co-exist.

 

 

I think people are overestimating our future. If they really do run off 7 playoff years in 8 starting with this one, great, I'll tip my cap to Epstein and give him all the credit for it.

 

But that isn't as much of a slam dunk as some think. Pitching is fickle and primes are shorter and earlier than people think. We could easily have more mediocre or bad seasons in our immediate future if some things go wrong or thy whiff on some decisions.

 

Don't know you well enough to say, but it sounds like the scouting report on you is that you wouldn't tip your cap for the seven playoff seasons but instead would focus on how they didn't make the proper moves to make the playoffs in all eight.

 

I'll admit I get really frustrated with people who try to bash Epstein. Maybe it's naive, but I have total trust in the front office for the first time as a Cubs fan. I want nobody in charge more than them. Yes, they will make mistakes. It's baseball. But the process behind their ways is magical and something I dread not having whenever he and his boys leave.

 

I agree with Kyle on this one. I support Epstein, but believing that "the process behind their ways is magical" is a bit much. Front office management has changed so much in the last 10 years (because of Epstein, Beane, etc.) that I think Theo and his boys can be replaced if they choose to leave.

 

I really, really believe there are not many GMs who could have delivered what the Cubs have now in such a short period of time. The rebuild was risky in that they had to hit on a number of guys or the thing was going to stall, and they pretty much hit on all the important things for it to happen while also getting some key guys back in trades.

 

Sorry, but I just can't believe there are that many front offices in the game today that would have the Cubs in the position they are in now.

[Guest]

It's definitely trolling. The fact that you truly feel that way because you're kind of a defective human being doesn't mean it's not.

 

I sometimes wonder what's turned you so edgy lately. I don't think it's a desire to fit in with the cool kids. Maybe it's a life event, but sometimes I suspect that you get the most aggressive when the gap widens between what you want to believe and what you deep-down suspect is true.

 

lol what the [expletive]

[Guest]

I don't think you can have what Epstein has created today AND spend money to be competitive in the last 3 years. It took bad seasons to get the draft picks they currently have. So I fall into the "Epstein can do no wrong" crowd, Sometimes you have to just gut the system and start all over. Isn't that very similar to what the Yankees did in the '90's? They built from the ground up.

[rawaction]

I am enjoying the present. Enjoying the young talent and not thinking Epstein has done a superlative job can co-exist.

 

 

I think people are overestimating our future. If they really do run off 7 playoff years in 8 starting with this one, great, I'll tip my cap to Epstein and give him all the credit for it.

 

But that isn't as much of a slam dunk as some think. Pitching is fickle and primes are shorter and earlier than people think. We could easily have more mediocre or bad seasons in our immediate future if some things go wrong or thy whiff on some decisions.

 

Agreed. But I am more optimistic that if this team wins 85 as is, that still having a strong minor league system and plenty of payroll flexibility in the future will help future teams at worst, maintain that level of play for several years. And if Rizzo stays an elite player for a couple more years and remains a good player for the rest of his contract (very reasonable), Bryant improves from an already really good player, and Schwarber is anything close to what he's shown this week, I'll take my chances on the future. Not many teams have 3 players that good, especially when they'll make minimum in salary for the next several years.

 

The one concern I do have is what was talked about earlier in this thread. They were pathetic for 3 years, and aren't like monumentally more talented than the field. That was probably unreasonable for me to expect, but the Astros tanked to a similar extent and may have more young talent to show for it. The Dodgers didn't tank, spent like a team in Chicago should be able to, and did it while not sacrificing young talent. The Cardinals have been where the Cubs want to be for several years now, and don't look like they're going anywhere anytime soon.

 

You must keep in mind, though, that of course they aren't going to be monumentally better than the field the first year. We are being led by players 25 and younger who haven't even come close to being the players they will be but who already are performing at a really high level for their age. I totally expect the Cubs to be monumentally better than almost anybody in the relatively near future. But even before they get there, they are a playoff contender who has to be one of the most entertaining teams in MLB to watch.

 

The scary thing is you mention Rizzo, Bryant and Schwarber and never even got to Russell and perhaps Soler.

 

I meant monumentally more talented overall, not necessarily a better team now.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

You must keep in mind, though, that of course they aren't going to be monumentally better than the field the first year. We are being led by players 25 and younger who haven't even come close to being the players they will be but who already are performing at a really high level for their age. I totally expect the Cubs to be monumentally better than almost anybody in the relatively near future. But even before they get there, they are a playoff contender who has to be one of the most entertaining teams in MLB to watch.

 

The scary thing is you mention Rizzo, Bryant and Schwarber and never even got to Russell and perhaps Soler.

 

 

 

A great example of what I am talking about when I say that some fans, maybe even most, don't get what the aging curve in 2015 mlb looks like. Primes are short and early, it is quite possible that we are right now seeing the best guys like Rizzo or even Bryant will see. Heck, it is looking quite plausible that Casto had his best at 22. Or maybe not. Every career path is different. But it isn't just plugging guys in at 22 and soaking in how awesome they are by improving every year through 27.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I don't think you can have what Epstein has created today AND spend money to be competitive in the last 3 years. It took bad seasons to get the draft picks they currently have. So I fall into the "Epstein can do no wrong" crowd, Sometimes you have to just gut the system and start all over. Isn't that very similar to what the Yankees did in the '90's? They built from the ground up.

 

For whatever it is worth, those Yankees were more like the Blackhawks that immediately preceded the current run: honestly trying very hard to be competitive but failing miserably and hitting on the resulting picks.

 

I agree we wouldn't have exactly what we have now if hadn't tanked. But if Epstein and his organization really as magical as claimed, we could have had one or two playoff appearances already banked and still a decent young team to work with.

[Backtobanks]

I am enjoying the present. Enjoying the young talent and not thinking Epstein has done a superlative job can co-exist.

 

 

I think people are overestimating our future. If they really do run off 7 playoff years in 8 starting with this one, great, I'll tip my cap to Epstein and give him all the credit for it.

 

But that isn't as much of a slam dunk as some think. Pitching is fickle and primes are shorter and earlier than people think. We could easily have more mediocre or bad seasons in our immediate future if some things go wrong or thy whiff on some decisions.

 

Don't know you well enough to say, but it sounds like the scouting report on you is that you wouldn't tip your cap for the seven playoff seasons but instead would focus on how they didn't make the proper moves to make the playoffs in all eight.

 

I'll admit I get really frustrated with people who try to bash Epstein. Maybe it's naive, but I have total trust in the front office for the first time as a Cubs fan. I want nobody in charge more than them. Yes, they will make mistakes. It's baseball. But the process behind their ways is magical and something I dread not having whenever he and his boys leave.

 

I agree with Kyle on this one. I support Epstein, but believing that "the process behind their ways is magical" is a bit much. Front office management has changed so much in the last 10 years (because of Epstein, Beane, etc.) that I think Theo and his boys can be replaced if they choose to leave.

 

I really, really believe there are not many GMs who could have delivered what the Cubs have now in such a short period of time. The rebuild was risky in that they had to hit on a number of guys or the thing was going to stall, and they pretty much hit on all the important things for it to happen while also getting some key guys back in trades.

 

Sorry, but I just can't believe there are that many front offices in the game today that would have the Cubs in the position they are in now.

 

The Astros, Royals, and Pirates are examples of losing and taking the draft choices to rebuild, but none of them had the assets (Cashner, Garza, Hammel, etc.) at the ML level to trade for more prospects.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

You must keep in mind, though, that of course they aren't going to be monumentally better than the field the first year. We are being led by players 25 and younger who haven't even come close to being the players they will be but who already are performing at a really high level for their age. I totally expect the Cubs to be monumentally better than almost anybody in the relatively near future. But even before they get there, they are a playoff contender who has to be one of the most entertaining teams in MLB to watch.

 

The scary thing is you mention Rizzo, Bryant and Schwarber and never even got to Russell and perhaps Soler.

 

 

 

A great example of what I am talking about when I say that some fans, maybe even most, don't get what the aging curve in 2015 mlb looks like. Primes are short and early, it is quite possible that we are right now seeing the best guys like Rizzo or even Bryant will see. Heck, it is looking quite plausible that Casto had his best at 22. Or maybe not. Every career path is different. But it isn't just plugging guys in at 22 and soaking in how awesome they are by improving every year through 27.

 

The more 22- and 23-year top talents you accumulate give you a far greater chance of it being the maybe not end. I'll take it every time.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

I am enjoying the present. Enjoying the young talent and not thinking Epstein has done a superlative job can co-exist.

 

 

I think people are overestimating our future. If they really do run off 7 playoff years in 8 starting with this one, great, I'll tip my cap to Epstein and give him all the credit for it.

 

But that isn't as much of a slam dunk as some think. Pitching is fickle and primes are shorter and earlier than people think. We could easily have more mediocre or bad seasons in our immediate future if some things go wrong or thy whiff on some decisions.

 

Don't know you well enough to say, but it sounds like the scouting report on you is that you wouldn't tip your cap for the seven playoff seasons but instead would focus on how they didn't make the proper moves to make the playoffs in all eight.

 

I'll admit I get really frustrated with people who try to bash Epstein. Maybe it's naive, but I have total trust in the front office for the first time as a Cubs fan. I want nobody in charge more than them. Yes, they will make mistakes. It's baseball. But the process behind their ways is magical and something I dread not having whenever he and his boys leave.

 

I agree with Kyle on this one. I support Epstein, but believing that "the process behind their ways is magical" is a bit much. Front office management has changed so much in the last 10 years (because of Epstein, Beane, etc.) that I think Theo and his boys can be replaced if they choose to leave.

 

I really, really believe there are not many GMs who could have delivered what the Cubs have now in such a short period of time. The rebuild was risky in that they had to hit on a number of guys or the thing was going to stall, and they pretty much hit on all the important things for it to happen while also getting some key guys back in trades.

 

Sorry, but I just can't believe there are that many front offices in the game today that would have the Cubs in the position they are in now.

 

The Astros, Royals, and Pirates are examples of losing and taking the draft choices to rebuild, but none of them had the assets (Cashner, Garza, Hammel, etc.) at the ML level to trade for more prospects.

 

This is already wrong. Part of the reason why the Royals are good is because they had a top talent to trade in Greinke, giving them both their SS and CF of the future and allowing them to take the third piece in that deal to trade in a package for a top starter (James Shields) and an MVP bullpen piece (Wade Davis).

 

I'm quite certain there are SOME front offices that could do what the Cubs have done, but they still will be in the minority.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

Would also add that I would be shocked if the Pirates and Royals have the extended window open that the Cubs now do. It will soon be onto the second wave for the Royals, and I don't trust them to be as well prepared as the Cubs will be if the front office sticks around.

[ARCubsFan]

Pirates have a ton of good young pitching coming through in the next few years and the Royals have a really good GM in Dayton Moore as well as some good players such as Raul Mondesi Jr. coming up.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Misclick Edited June 21, 2015 by Hairyducked Idiot

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Would also add that I would be shocked if the Pirates and Royals have the extended window open that the Cubs now do. It will soon be onto the second wave for the Royals, and I don't trust them to be as well prepared as the Cubs will be if the front office sticks around.

 

Crazy talk incoming:

 

Maybe wait until the Cubs have won so much as a berth in the Wild Card game before giving them credit for an "extended window."

[Bryants Disco Ball]

Would also add that I would be shocked if the Pirates and Royals have the extended window open that the Cubs now do. It will soon be onto the second wave for the Royals, and I don't trust them to be as well prepared as the Cubs will be if the front office sticks around.

 

Crazy talk incoming:

 

Maybe wait until the Cubs have won so much as a berth in the Wild Card game before giving them credit for an "extended window."

 

What fun is that? I'm not going to hedge in what I think just to protect myself if I'm wrong.

[Bryants Disco Ball]

Pirates have a ton of good young pitching coming through in the next few years and the Royals have a really good GM in Dayton Moore as well as some good players such as Raul Mondesi Jr. coming up.

 

I can see the Pirates, but I don't buy the Royals despite Mondesi.

[imb]

It's definitely trolling. The fact that you truly feel that way because you're kind of a defective human being doesn't mean it's not.

 

I sometimes wonder what's turned you so edgy lately. I don't think it's a desire to fit in with the cool kids. Maybe it's a life event, but sometimes I suspect that you get the most aggressive when the gap widens between what you want to believe and what you deep-down suspect is true.

 

There are no cool kids anymore, we're all 30 year old married adults. You just suck at existing

[Sammy Sofa]

*Deadlegs Kyle while imb is talking*

 

*Steals his Capri Sun and sprays it in his face*

[Hairyducked Idiot]

There are no cool kids anymore, we're all 30 year old married adults. You just suck at existing

 

You'll always be cool to me.

[Little Slide Rooter]

It's definitely trolling. The fact that you truly feel that way because you're kind of a defective human being doesn't mean it's not.

 

I sometimes wonder what's turned you so edgy lately. I don't think it's a desire to fit in with the cool kids. Maybe it's a life event, but sometimes I suspect that you get the most aggressive when the gap widens between what you want to believe and what you deep-down suspect is true.

 

There are no cool kids anymore, we're all 30 year old married adults. You just suck at existing

 

And FWIW, if there's one thing less cool than 30 (or in some cases 38 :-" ) year old, married adults sitting around and posting about baseball, it's single, twenty somethings sitting around and posting about baseball.

[Little Slide Rooter]

I don't think you can have what Epstein has created today AND spend money to be competitive in the last 3 years. It took bad seasons to get the draft picks they currently have. So I fall into the "Epstein can do no wrong" crowd, Sometimes you have to just gut the system and start all over. Isn't that very similar to what the Yankees did in the '90's? They built from the ground up.

 

Another thing that should be taken into consideration is that in addition to an awful team and farm system, Epstein inherited a ravenous fan base who were legitimately expecting an overnight turn around. Lest we forget, even some of NSBB's best and brightest were expecting something along the lines of Pujols or Fielder AND CJ Wilson AND a Ramirez extension and then some. During his press conference, in which people were expecting something glorious, he didn't sugar coat anything; he matter-of-factly stated exactly what he was going to do, and that it was going to take time. And that, in its own took some cohones.

[Sammy Sofa]

How can someone take so long to say so little.

[Guest]

I am 30 something, but I am an unmarried degenerate soo where does that put me?