Cubs Mets deal inevitable?

[Guest]

But if we have nine solid young players on the field at all times, doesn't that mean we already have good pitching too?

[sontensei]

But if we have nine solid young players on the field at all times, doesn't that mean we already have good pitching too?

 

technically yes, i suppose i should have said 8.

[Clem Fandango]

But if we have nine solid young players on the field at all times, doesn't that mean we already have good pitching too?

 

technically yes, i suppose i should have said 8.

 

[mod=The Logan][shadow=blue]No take backsies[/shadow][/mod]

[Clem Fandango]

These new text effects are gonna be fun

[treebird]

[marq=left]:stickman: :stickman: :stickman:[/marq]

[Tryptamine]

If the Mets want to throw Syndergaard+d'Arnaud at us or Matz+Herrera+Molina then by all means. Until then I'll keep my 25 year old 3 time all star who is only making 8M on average over the next 4 years.

[SABR Gamer]

So now its time to play Baseball Mogul wanna be GM. What deal do YOU do with the Mets!!!!!?!?!

 

And YES I am a fan of flipping castro to another team, and have La Stella hold down 2b till Javy gets right.

 

DIdn't even read the rest of the post after this. Gross, so gross.

[SABR Gamer]

So now its time to play Baseball Mogul wanna be GM. What deal do YOU do with the Mets!!!!!?!?!

 

And YES I am a fan of flipping castro to another team, and have La Stella hold down 2b till Javy gets right.

 

btw... whats La Stella's timeline?

 

You gotta give something to get something, right!?!

 

Anyways....

 

Castro, Almora, and Gleyber Torres

 

for...

 

Syndergaard, Matz, and one of the Torres Relievers

So...a top 10-15 shortstop on a great contract, a top 50 and a top 75 prospect for two pitching prospects and a reliever?

 

I'm going to go with no.

 

Syndergaard is #11 in all of MLB in 2015 rankings

Matz is #65

 

Almora is #56

Torres isnt even on the top 100 list.

 

This is not a big strech.

 

Yeah, how a player has played this year clearly doesn't matter. Obviously the baseball world still thinks Gleyber is not a top-100 guy...lol.

[SABR Gamer]

I dunno if the white sox thing is very feasible the FO down south would want to avoid having to live with getting heckled by the local media by getting ripped off by theo.

 

Either way the cubs need to improve the pitching ASAP.

 

Teams don't give a [expletive] about the media. Rick Hahn seems smart enough to make a good deal with the Cubs if one is presented to him.

[SABR Gamer]

I mean sure, if they wanted to trade Thor and Matz in a package for Castro you're starting to get somewhere, but most Met-based conversations are still trying to figure out why Niese isn't enough for him.

thinking it's plausible a team's going to give up that type of value just to marginally upgrade from Flores to Castro is even worse

 

Castro hasn't made one single identifiable offensive improvement in the six seasons he's had in the majors, it might be time to stop expecting it

 

the fact that it's implausible is precisely why i find castro trade talk annoying. he's not going to net what he and his contract are actually worth.

 

Thats why you gotta add in guys like Gleyber, Almora and company

 

So to get the value to be more even, when the point is that it's skewed away from the Cubs with a Castro deal, they should ADD more to what they are giving up? Thinking is hard sometimes, I guess.

[SABR Gamer]

There is only one real major league asset in the deal and he's going the wrong way for this to make sense to a team trying to make a push this year.

what certainty is there that we're not mired in a repeat of '13 for Castro? is it greater than the odds that Syndergaard doesn't acclimate or that Matz can't immediately be a viable high-leverage reliever?

Are you more concerned about 2015 or simply having the most overall talent in the org to set up a longer run?

 

I think it's much more likely that Starlin is a positive 2015 asset. It's probably about a wash in the long run if you look at him for Thor + Matz. Given what you know of my opinion of Starlin, that's how down I am on trading assets for pitching prospects, in general.

 

For the trade proposal I was responding to in particular, adding Almora and Torres on top of Starlin for those guys is, IMO, ludicrous.

 

Every teams fans are going to have a much higher regard for their own teams prospects / players than the opposing team.

 

Or, like in this situation with Torres, you just don't have a damn clue about them.

[Guest]

btw, if I'm the Mets and I have to give up my young pitching for an upgrade at SS...I'm getting Tulo.

[Tryptamine]

btw, if I'm the Mets and I have to give up my young pitching for an upgrade at SS...I'm getting Tulo.

 

They can't afford him. The GM said they were tapped out after adding Cuddyer, how could they add another 20M annually? I mean Colorado can eat some of the money if they get enough in return, but it's likely not going to be enough.

[Guest]

Castro for Snydergaard wouled do it for me.

[Guest]

i don't see why they're not proven enough...Syndergaard and Matz have proven full well they're very good at getting hitters out (2.4 WAR ZiPS projection for 26 GS, 2.2 WAR for 25 GS)

 

also, Castro's currently sitting at replacement level despite .330 BABIP

 

When you're giving up big time position assets and are seemingly able to pull 2 win pitchers out of a hat, that projection(and the fact that it's a projection) isn't probably enough.

 

I mean sure, if they wanted to trade Thor and Matz in a package for Castro you're starting to get somewhere, but most Met-based conversations are still trying to figure out why Niese isn't enough for him.

 

You're so pot-committed on Castro, you just can't get away from your hand, can you?

[Derwood]

Castro for Snydergaard wouled do it for me.

 

Even when Thor's elbow explodes in the next year?

[Guest]

i don't see why they're not proven enough...Syndergaard and Matz have proven full well they're very good at getting hitters out (2.4 WAR ZiPS projection for 26 GS, 2.2 WAR for 25 GS)

 

also, Castro's currently sitting at replacement level despite .330 BABIP

 

When you're giving up big time position assets and are seemingly able to pull 2 win pitchers out of a hat, that projection(and the fact that it's a projection) isn't probably enough.

 

I mean sure, if they wanted to trade Thor and Matz in a package for Castro you're starting to get somewhere, but most Met-based conversations are still trying to figure out why Niese isn't enough for him.

 

You're so pot-committed on Castro, you just can't get away from your hand, can you?

 

I'd ask you the same thing.

[TheDude]

I would not trade Castro primarily for the reasons TT has stated many times over the last year. I also would add that I think there is legitimate problem in trying to assess his trade value. For me, both sides of the debate on his trade value have merit: what he has accomplished through age 25 and his remaining contract are fantastic and have great value that often gets overlooked, but there is a also potential that Castro's remaining production on that contract yields league average WAR/$ as a light hitting, mediocre defensive SS (with a worst case of one or more replacement years).

 

It's easy to see two savvy GMs unable to able to ever truly settle on agreeable value.

[Guest]

i don't see why they're not proven enough...Syndergaard and Matz have proven full well they're very good at getting hitters out (2.4 WAR ZiPS projection for 26 GS, 2.2 WAR for 25 GS)

 

also, Castro's currently sitting at replacement level despite .330 BABIP

 

When you're giving up big time position assets and are seemingly able to pull 2 win pitchers out of a hat, that projection(and the fact that it's a projection) isn't probably enough.

 

I mean sure, if they wanted to trade Thor and Matz in a package for Castro you're starting to get somewhere, but most Met-based conversations are still trying to figure out why Niese isn't enough for him.

 

You're so pot-committed on Castro, you just can't get away from your hand, can you?

 

Such is the luxury of believing in Castro, the above average shortstop getting paid peanuts until we're both dead.

 

And I've only been talking about this in terms of absolute value, others have touched on it but isn't the point of making that trade getting better immediately too? ROS who's better, Castro or Thor? ZiPS doesn't see a huge difference either way. So then you're left to compare ROS with Wood/Wada/etc v. whoever plays 2B(Baez/Alcantara/TLS), while also keeping in mind that there's not as much buffer for Russell slumping/failing. There's enough moving pieces that depending on how you want to round the Cubs come out ahead, but we're not talking about big gains here, certainly not enough to make such a seismic change to the current and immediate future roster.

 

This is why Castro for pitching prospects is really a bad proposition. Baez for Syndergaard would make a lot more sense as you offload similar bust risk and future control, and you actually upgrade the team in the short run too. I'm not sure if that's my preferred move to make with the chips they have, but it's a lot more agreeable than throwing away Castro's future value for a short term upgrade you have to squint to see.

[SouthSideRyan]

So now its time to play Baseball Mogul wanna be GM. What deal do YOU do with the Mets!!!!!?!?!

 

And YES I am a fan of flipping castro to another team, and have La Stella hold down 2b till Javy gets right.

 

btw... whats La Stella's timeline?

 

You gotta give something to get something, right!?!

 

Anyways....

 

Castro, Almora, and Gleyber Torres

 

for...

 

Syndergaard, Matz, and one of the Torres Relievers

So...a top 10-15 shortstop on a great contract, a top 50 and a top 75 prospect for two pitching prospects and a reliever?

 

I'm going to go with no.

 

Syndergaard is #11 in all of MLB in 2015 rankings

Matz is #65

 

Almora is #56

Torres isnt even on the top 100 list.

 

This is not a big strech.

 

Yeah, how a player has played this year clearly doesn't matter. Obviously the baseball world still thinks Gleyber is not a top-100 guy...lol.

 

And Almora?

[Guest]

I'd still rather not trade for a starter unless a rotation spot goes catastrophically bad as the season goes on and then back up the Brinks truck in FA after the season, making Lester our 3rd (best) starter.

 

And I definitely don't want to waste trade resources on bullpen help.

[SouthSideRyan]

btw, if I'm the Mets and I have to give up my young pitching for an upgrade at SS...I'm getting Tulo.

 

They can't afford him. The GM said they were tapped out after adding Cuddyer, how could they add another 20M annually? I mean Colorado can eat some of the money if they get enough in return, but it's likely not going to be enough.

 

Wilpon is such a shitty [expletive] owner. I'll move PTR up to 28th.

[SouthSideRyan]

Castro for Snydergaard wouled do it for me.

 

Even when Thor's elbow explodes in the next year?

 

Why is that going to happen?

[SouthSideRyan]

I'd still rather not trade for a starter unless a rotation spot goes catastrophically bad as the season goes on and then back up the Brinks truck in FA after the season, making Lester our 3rd (best) starter.

 

And I definitely don't want to waste trade resources on bullpen help.

 

Define resources.

[Guest]

I'd still rather not trade for a starter unless a rotation spot goes catastrophically bad as the season goes on and then back up the Brinks truck in FA after the season, making Lester our 3rd (best) starter.

 

And I definitely don't want to waste trade resources on bullpen help.

 

Define resources.

 

How specific do you want me to be? Basically, anything with remotely notable value unless we're getting back like 2007 Carlos Marmol, and even then I'm skittish because pitchers/relievers.

 

 

Almora (I guess) and up?