Cole Hamels Traded to Rangers

[Cubbie Swagger]

better be the sickest deal ever with the pads

This.

[Guest]

better be the sickest deal ever with the pads

This.

 

or better be price

[XZero771679666304]

I think there's a decent chance that Theo really wants to make a run at Price in the offseason, and doesn't want to add too much payroll now.

[toonsterwu]

My first inclination is ... it's a fairly reasonable deal.

 

It seems quite obvious that they prioritized adding a future catcher in this deal (thus, Alfaro here, and the reported rumors of Susac and other catchers from other teams). Alfaro's nice ... but there's some risk there, moreso offensively, where he looks to be a low average, power guy if he works out. Still, catcher was the primary position they wanted filled, and Alfaro's a solid, interesting option.

 

Thus, I'm not about to bash Theo over not getting this deal done. The Cubs might've simply not had the right core asset to intrigue them, regardless of wherever guys were ranked. The inclusion of Jake Thompson and Matt Harrison make this deal a tiny bit better than previously reported, as Thompson is a quality starting pitching prospect, a potential mid-rotation, if not a tick better, arm. If healthy, Harrison gives the Phillies a solid rotation option that they could potentially shop for a decent return this winter/next season.

 

The rest of the deal is ... interesting. Williams is a left fielder who has hit well this year, I think there's a case for Williams ahead of a guy like McKinney, as Williams probably has more raw power, should hit for contact with his bat command, and both guys are probably slated for LF. The big question is whether or not that discipline improvement is real. If it is ... he should zoom up post-season lists. Jerod Eickhoff and Alec Asher are both intriguing arms, but it's debatable if either is a starter long-term. They both feel like arms that could end up being better off in the pen. I mean, Justin Grimm was probably a better arm talent than those guys, but as secondary pieces to a trade ... it's okay.

 

At the end of the deal, if there's "disappointment" from the Phillies fan side, it's more due to unrealistic expectations. This is a fairly reasonable deal for both sides. It's the type of deal that should've been expected - not some deal with multiple elite prospects, but a deal that gives the Phillies some intriguing young talent to move forward with and clears the deck of some salary (Harrison's inclusion is probably aimed at balancing out the numbers moreso than anything). The Rangers get an ace to work with, and will have a nice one-two punch for next year, and they didn't gut the system, and the trade really involved some guys with some questions.

[sneakypower]

so they got one top 50 guy and harrison's [expletive] contract?

Sickels' midseason update:

Nick Williams: #26

Thompson: #53

Alfaro: "76-85 area"

[philosophizer75]

What would it take to get Carlos Carrasco?

[Sammy Sofa]

You pay the extra money to keep your farm system in tact. It's a good trade off.

 

One of the main reasons in having a good farm system is to have assets for trades, especially impact moves. Nobody gets anything extra for hording their [expletive] prospects.

[ARCubsFan]

You pay the extra money to keep your farm system in tact. It's a good trade off.

 

One of the main reasons in having a good farm system is to have assets for trades, especially impact moves. Nobody gets anything extra for hording their [expletive] prospects.

Not saying you have to keep them all, next trade deadline when the Cubs are hopefully contending, we'll have the pieces to go out and improve the team and fill needs.

[toonsterwu]

Wasn't the price on Carrasco supposedly through the roof? Wasn't there a rumor of something like Daniel Norris, Dalton Pompey, and another guy?

 

As for Harrison, I think the main value of him being in the deal is that he balances out the money a bit. The expectation game can't be that high with a guy who had fringy stuff to begin with, coming off the type of injury/surgery that he had.

 

Thompson's the key arm to the deal, and combined with Alfaro, probably the reason why this was a hard deal for the Cubs to match, if the premise that the Rangers wanted a catcher of the future in return is true.

[XZero771679666304]

Wasn't the price on Carrasco supposedly through the roof?

 

IIRC, several sources today said the Indians were trying gauge Carrasco's value, and have very little interest in trading him. Probably a "we'll deal him if we're blown away" situation.

[Guest]

You pay the extra money to keep your farm system in tact. It's a good trade off.

 

One of the main reasons in having a good farm system is to have assets for trades, especially impact moves. Nobody gets anything extra for hording their [expletive] prospects.

Not saying you have to keep them all, next trade deadline when the Cubs are hopefully contending, we'll have the pieces to go out and improve the team and fill needs.

 

there's a handful of guys that will have to be exposed to the rule 5 after this year

 

i don't know all of them or really how it works, i just know that part

[toonsterwu]

Harrison didn't have fringy stuff as a lefty, no way no how. Injuries are his issue, otherwise he's not half bad.

 

Thompson's the key arm in the sense that he might be the one who gets to stick around by the time the roster is ready, but he's boring too. Admittedly, the Cubs don't even have that kind of arm in their system.

 

Well, by fringy stuff I simply meant he relied on a low 90's fastball with sink, and very pedestrian secondary stuff. I guess it's fair to say that a 91 mph (roughly what he averaged pre-injury) sinker isn't fringy, but this isn't exactly a guy with plus stuff. He relied on location and sinking the ball, key attributes, but his overall arsenal was never that hot to begin with, dating back to his Braves days. I'm aware that his changeup was viewed positively by some coming up the ladder, but it was always somewhat of a mixed bag, IMO.

 

I tend to find Thompson exciting, as a pitcher in the upper levels at age 21 with a plus fastball, plus breaking ball, solid changeup, and some command has a potential to be a very solid long run asset, but yeah, the Cubs certainly lack that type of guy. Pierce Johnson almost was that guy, but never put it together. Of course, as with all pitchers, TINSTAAP, so we'll have to wait and see on Thompson, although it wouldn't surprise me to see him in the bigs at some point in 2016. Of course, Phillies have a decent bundle of young arms in the upper levels now, so there's some competition.

Edited July 30, 2015 by toonsterwu

[Sammy Sofa]

You pay the extra money to keep your farm system in tact. It's a good trade off.

 

One of the main reasons in having a good farm system is to have assets for trades, especially impact moves. Nobody gets anything extra for hording their [expletive] prospects.

Not saying you have to keep them all, next trade deadline when the Cubs are hopefully contending, we'll have the pieces to go out and improve the team and fill needs.

 

THEY ARE CONTENDING, FOR THE LOVE OF [expletive].

[toonsterwu]

I'm mildly surprised at the vitriol by Rangers fans to this deal, and looking into it ... I guess I can somewhat understand it. I didn't realize Chi Chi Gonzalez had been that pedestrian - I really haven't been closely following baseball this year, but Gonzalez sure looks more like a fringe ML starter, than the potential 2/3 guy some thought at the beginning. Their positional depth is thinner than in recent year, their ML core is aging, and they just gave up a huge chunk of the deal, thus they better hope Darvish is strong coming back to pair with Hamels.

 

In general, I think this was still a defensible move for Jon Daniels, but thinking about it more, there's a valid case that it might've been the right move for the Rangers.

Edited July 30, 2015 by toonsterwu

[ARCubsFan]

You pay the extra money to keep your farm system in tact. It's a good trade off.

 

One of the main reasons in having a good farm system is to have assets for trades, especially impact moves. Nobody gets anything extra for hording their [expletive] prospects.

Not saying you have to keep them all, next trade deadline when the Cubs are hopefully contending, we'll have the pieces to go out and improve the team and fill needs.

 

THEY ARE CONTENDING, FOR THE LOVE OF [expletive].

They're 7-9 in a stretch against their easiest schedule of the season and the Giants look like they're going to roll through the rest of the season. Even if they make the playoffs, they're not getting past Pittsburgh, St. Louis, and LA.

[Cubswin11]

You pay the extra money to keep your farm system in tact. It's a good trade off.

 

One of the main reasons in having a good farm system is to have assets for trades, especially impact moves. Nobody gets anything extra for hording their [expletive] prospects.

Not saying you have to keep them all, next trade deadline when the Cubs are hopefully contending, we'll have the pieces to go out and improve the team and fill needs.

 

THEY ARE CONTENDING, FOR THE LOVE OF [expletive].

They're 7-9 in a stretch against their easiest schedule of the season and the Giants look like they're going to roll through the rest of the season. Even if they make the playoffs, they're not getting past Pittsburgh, St. Louis, and LA.

There's no such thing as easy stretches in baseball when most games are nearly 50/50

[Guest]

You pay the extra money to keep your farm system in tact. It's a good trade off.

 

One of the main reasons in having a good farm system is to have assets for trades, especially impact moves. Nobody gets anything extra for hording their [expletive] prospects.

Not saying you have to keep them all, next trade deadline when the Cubs are hopefully contending, we'll have the pieces to go out and improve the team and fill needs.

 

THEY ARE CONTENDING, FOR THE LOVE OF [expletive].

They're 7-9 in a stretch against their easiest schedule of the season and the Giants look like they're going to roll through the rest of the season. Even if they make the playoffs, they're not getting past Pittsburgh, St. Louis, and LA.

oh my god god forbid a baseball team go 7-9 through a 16 game stretch in a 162 game season

 

contention status DDENIED

 

and the rest of your post is like you've never ever ever watched baseball or the postseason before

[ARCubsFan]

Nothing about this team screams "playoffs!". They haven't won an easy game since two Sundays ago in Atlanta when they won by a whopping 3 runs and this is a stretch against all bottomfeeders. If the Cubs are going to make the playoffs, it's going to need to come from within.

[Sammy Sofa]

You pay the extra money to keep your farm system in tact. It's a good trade off.

 

One of the main reasons in having a good farm system is to have assets for trades, especially impact moves. Nobody gets anything extra for hording their [expletive] prospects.

Not saying you have to keep them all, next trade deadline when the Cubs are hopefully contending, we'll have the pieces to go out and improve the team and fill needs.

 

THEY ARE CONTENDING, FOR THE LOVE OF [expletive].

They're 7-9 in a stretch against their easiest schedule of the season and the Giants look like they're going to roll through the rest of the season. Even if they make the playoffs, they're not getting past Pittsburgh, St. Louis, and LA.

 

Gee, it's almost like improving the team now would improve their chances or something. What a novel concept.

 

There's always going to be tough competition and they're not likely to just run away with the division any time soon, so this idea of just giving up as soon as they face any kind of struggles is just a self-fulfilling prophecy to do nothing and apparently end up with a team where they have a couple homegrown players sharing a uniform at every position because why the hell not.

[Guest]

Nothing about this team screams "playoffs!". They haven't won an easy game since two Sundays ago in Atlanta when they won by a whopping 3 runs and this is a stretch against all bottomfeeders. If the Cubs are going to make the playoffs, it's going to need to come from within.

 

this is pure nonsense

[Sammy Sofa]

Nothing about this team screams "playoffs!". They haven't won an easy game since two Sundays ago in Atlanta when they won by a whopping 3 runs and this is a stretch against all bottomfeeders. If the Cubs are going to make the playoffs, it's going to need to come from within.

 

Yeah, too bad they're not world-beaters like the 2006 Cardinals or anything. They of the 8 and 7-game losing streaks and going 35-39 in the second half and going 83-78 overall and who went 9-11 in their final 20 games.

[BrockLanders]

Anyone who thinks we can't beat [team] in the playoffs needs a better appreciation of probability and how much luck is involved in the postseason. Edited July 30, 2015 by BrockLanders

[ARCubsFan]

Nothing about this team screams "playoffs!". They haven't won an easy game since two Sundays ago in Atlanta when they won by a whopping 3 runs and this is a stretch against all bottomfeeders. If the Cubs are going to make the playoffs, it's going to need to come from within.

 

Yeah, too bad they're not world-beaters like the 2006 Cardinals or anything. They of the 8 and 7-game losing streaks and going 35-39 in the second half and going 83-78 overall and who went 9-11 in their final 20 games.

We're not the Cardinals. They have voodoo magic, we haven't won a World Series in 107 years.

[Guest]

Nothing about this team screams "playoffs!". They haven't won an easy game since two Sundays ago in Atlanta when they won by a whopping 3 runs and this is a stretch against all bottomfeeders. If the Cubs are going to make the playoffs, it's going to need to come from within.

 

Yeah, too bad they're not world-beaters like the 2006 Cardinals or anything. They of the 8 and 7-game losing streaks and going 35-39 in the second half and going 83-78 overall and who went 9-11 in their final 20 games.

We're not the Cardinals. They have voodoo magic, we haven't won a World Series in 107 years.

Fine. White Sox.

[Sammy Sofa]

Nothing about this team screams "playoffs!". They haven't won an easy game since two Sundays ago in Atlanta when they won by a whopping 3 runs and this is a stretch against all bottomfeeders. If the Cubs are going to make the playoffs, it's going to need to come from within.

 

Yeah, too bad they're not world-beaters like the 2006 Cardinals or anything. They of the 8 and 7-game losing streaks and going 35-39 in the second half and going 83-78 overall and who went 9-11 in their final 20 games.

We're not the Cardinals. They have voodoo magic, we haven't won a World Series in 107 years.

 

You're a child. These are the things a child believes.