2014 Bulls Offseason Thread

[Ryne Ween]

Kirk is fine. He's versatile and he can play in roses stead or play with him. If you think Hinrich will prevent this team from being good you are an [expletive]. And if Thins wants him it means he serves a purpose. Thibs is not wrong. You are probably wrong.

[Sammy Sofa]

Man, I wanna know what got bleeped out because you are a stone cold weirdo.

[RammyFanny]

I miss the old days when there was that glitch and you could see the expletives when you quoted the post.

[RynoRules]

Kirk is fine. He's versatile and he can play in roses stead or play with him. If you think Hinrich will prevent this team from being good you are an [expletive]. And if Thins wants him it means he serves a purpose. Thibs is not wrong. You are probably wrong.

 

I had no idea that Thibs' mom posts here.

[WrigleyField 22]

Yea but you're not right either so there's that

 

 

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You must have missed my earlier post where I showed his PER's over the last two years. You should also look up his TS% and TOV%. He sucks.

No I saw it and you also grossly exaggerated him being not even NBA caliber. He's overpaid and may end up being overplayed but still has a useful NBA life.

 

 

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[Guest]

Mod Note: Please do not try to get around the word filter.

[RynoRules]

Yea but you're not right either so there's that

 

 

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You must have missed my earlier post where I showed his PER's over the last two years. You should also look up his TS% and TOV%. He sucks.

No I saw it and you also grossly exaggerated him being not even NBA caliber. He's overpaid and may end up being overplayed but still has a useful NBA life.

 

 

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Did you know that the average NBA PER is 15? Hinrich is 4.2 points below that each of the last two years. Nazi was only a bit worse.

 

Hinrich sucks.

[WrigleyField 22]

Did you know PER is [expletive] stupid?

 

 

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[RynoRules]

Did you know PER is [expletive] stupid?

 

 

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You're right. Counting stats are better. He shot 39% from the field last year and 42% from 2 pt range.

 

He sucks almost as bad as you ability to understand basketball.

[WrigleyField 22]

Hinrichs game is really well suited for a 5th guard at the minimum. Unfortunately he looks like he'll be used as a top 4 G at the RMLE, but my evaluation is still closer. I win

 

 

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[bukie]

Hinrichs game is really well suited for a 5th guard at the minimum. Unfortunately he looks like he'll be used as a top 4 G at the RMLE, but my evaluation is still closer. I win

 

 

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The "Because I said so" reasoning is a non-starter. But not quite as much of a non-starter as Hinrich.

[WrigleyField 22]

Even if you really like PER, Hollingers guide puts 13 as a rotation player, and 11 as "scrounging for minutes". Taking into account how its mostly an offensive stat, Hinrich provides a lot of his value with defense, and his efficiency may improve with a smaller role and he still has value in the right role.

 

Its annoying we wasted the RMLE on him but Rynos previous comments are way off and reak of Hinrich hating.

[WrigleyField 22]

To expand my thoughts. There really isn't anything horrendous about Hinrich's game other than I guess 2P% as pointed out. But you wouldn't want him in that type of role taking those shots. He doesn't wow with anything but hit 3's at a 39 and 35 clip the past two years, still provides good d against most guards, and can handle the rock and pass decently. I prefer him as a secondary ball handler but he can still run an offense for stretches if needed. All that sounds like a 5th man in the G rotation. Obviously the Bulls feel differently. He'll probably be 4th minutes wise and well have some JL3 type as the 5th guy. It's annoying but not egregious and GarPaxThibs may prove us wrong if Hinrich actually has a chance to play a lower usage rate role.

 

 

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[Ryne Ween]

It looks like the 5th guard is gonna be Aaron brooks so we will be seeing a 20 minutes of hinrich a night.

[RynoRules]

To expand my thoughts. There really isn't anything horrendous about Hinrich's game other than I guess 2P% as pointed out. But you wouldn't want him in that type of role taking those shots. He doesn't wow with anything but hit 3's at a 39 and 35 clip the past two years, still provides good d against most guards, and can handle the rock and pass decently. I prefer him as a secondary ball handler but he can still run an offense for stretches if needed. All that sounds like a 5th man in the G rotation. Obviously the Bulls feel differently. He'll probably be 4th minutes wise and well have some JL3 type as the 5th guy. It's annoying but not egregious and GarPaxThibs may prove us wrong if Hinrich actually has a chance to play a lower usage rate role.

 

 

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Please expand on your argument that Hinrich still plays good defense. I think he gets by on rep. Prove me wrong.

[RynoRules]

Gar says he was offered picks in the Top 10 in return for Miritoc.

 

Assuming that is true, here is how the back-end of the first round turned out:

 

1 7 Julius Randle PF United States Los Angeles Lakers Kentucky (Fr.)

1 8 Nik Stauskas SG Canada Sacramento Kings Michigan (So.)

1 9 Noah Vonleh PF United States Charlotte Hornets (from Detroit)9 Indiana (Fr.)

1 10 Elfrid Payton PG United States Philadelphia 76ers (from New Orleans,10 traded to Orlando) Louisiana–Lafayette (Jr.)

 

I wouldn't have been upset if we got Randle for him. That would have given us a ton of flexibility in the free agency and trade markets.

[WrigleyField 22]

Well you seem to like advanced stats so Defensive win shares.

 

 

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[WrigleyField 22]

Although Win Share also shows Boozer as a good defender. I wish I had a login to synergy sports as that would be the best source of advanced stats. Hard otherwise to describe his good defense other than the eye test. But hes been a big part in shutting down high octane offensive guys in his time here. Guys like Steph Curry in February. He has lost a bit on defense, particularly quicker guys, but hes still a definite positive on D.

 

One Synergy stat I did find is Kirk is 0.76 PPP in PnR situations. Now Thibs scheme is definitely a team scheme on D, but thats a good stat, and had I access to synergy sports I think you could find more advanced stats to back up his defensive reputation. Lacking that, just watch the games and see him against the top players and he makes them works and does a good putting them where the defense wants to put them.

[WrigleyField 22]

Also as far as burden of proof, I think you have much more to prove.

 

He is literally one of the worst players in the NBA at this point.

Don't forget to show your work.

[RynoRules]

Also as far as burden of proof, I think you have much more to prove.

 

He is literally one of the worst players in the NBA at this point.

Don't forget to show your work.

 

 

I assumed you weren't so lazy that you couldn't sort the PER column over at basketballreference.com.:

 

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2014_advanced.html

 

When you sort the column you will find there were only three players in the entire NBA who played as many minutes as Hinrich (2000-plus) and had worse PER's.

 

His 3.3 defensive win shares over those 2000-plus minutes are actually pretty impressive...until you realize he had 0.4 offensive win shares. Again, there are only a three or four guys who played as much as him and had fewer. This means that he is pretty much worthless offensively and you can double whomever you like when Hinrich is on the floor.

 

EDIT: And I watched him on the floor on D. He uses angles to move guys into traps on the baseline or to one side of the floor, but his one-on-one shutdown D days are over.

 

Hinrich is fine as an 11th guy, but if he plays 20 minutes a game we will be at a severe disadvantage, especially against good defensive teams.

[Cubswin11]

Bulls to sign Aaron Brooks

[WrigleyField 22]

I actually did do some per sorting and he fits 9-10 on the average team or ideally 10-11 on a contender. However PER is still mainly geared to offense and even if he's just an average defender these days there would then certainly he a lot of those higher PER guys that give it back on D by being well below average.

 

Though if you really do believe him to be a 11th man we've been in agreement all along and we've determined your earlier claims to be exaggerated. So I guess we're done.

[wolf stansson]

I sat right behind the rockets bench a few years ago. Aaron Brooks is one of the tiniest, non-little person men I've ever seen.

5'4, 130 if I had to guess.

[Derwood]

I sat right behind the rockets bench a few years ago. Aaron Brooks is one of the tiniest, non-little person men I've ever seen.

5'4, 130 if I had to guess.

 

6'0", 160

[RynoRules]

I actually did do some per sorting and he fits 9-10 on the average team or ideally 10-11 on a contender. However PER is still mainly geared to offense and even if he's just an average defender these days there would then certainly he a lot of those higher PER guys that give it back on D by being well below average.

 

Though if you really do believe him to be a 11th man we've been in agreement all along and we've determined your earlier claims to be exaggerated. So I guess we're done.

 

Not really. 11th guys suck and should play 0.5 minutes per game, not 20.

 

And what about the offensive vs. defensive win shares?