Who is the Cubs #48 prospect?

[CaliforniaRaisin]

The poll will be open for 24 hours. Results so far:

 

1. Javier Baez

2. Kris Bryant

3. Albert Almora

4. Jorge Soler

5. CJ Edwards

6. Arismendy Alcantara

7. Pierce Johnson

8. Daniel Vogelbach

9. Christian Villanueva

10. Jeimer Candelario

11. Mike Olt

12. Kyle Hendricks

13. Arodys Vizcaino

14. Paul Blackburn

15. Rob Zastryzny

16. Corey Black

17. Neil Ramirez

18. Eloy Jimenez

19. Josh Vitters

20. Ivan Pineyro

21. Armando Rivero

22. Dillon Maples

23. Duane Underwood

24. Willson Contreras

25. Tyler Skulina

26. Gleyber Torres

27. Shawon Dunston Jr

28. Jacob Hannemann

29. Jen-Ho Tseng

30. Juan Paniagua

31. Zac Rosscup

32. Stephen Bruno

33. Alberto Cabrera

34. Erick Leal

35. Gioskar Amaya

36. Daury Torrez

37. Matt Szczur

38. Ben Wells

39. Scott Frazier

40. Dustin Geiger

41. Eric Jokisch

42. Jose Arias

43. Yasiel Balaguert

44. Carlos Penalver

45. Jefferson Mejia

46. Jose Paulino

47. Marco Hernandez

[Tangled Up in Plaid]

Andreoli, Pugliese, Clifton.

[gscool89]

At this point, are we just finding out how far Brett Jackson has fallen?

[Tangled Up in Plaid]

Brett Jackson is a non-entity at this point. He'll be in some other org or the independent league next year.

[Cubswin11]

Masek, Ha, Clifton

[Clem Fandango]

Brett Jackson is a non-entity at this point. He'll be in some other org or the independent league next year.

 

I'll be bold and predict that Brett Jackson will have a better major league career than Josh Vitters.

[WrigleyField 22]

Brett Jackson is a non-entity at this point. He'll be in some other org or the independent league next year.

 

I'll be bold and predict that Brett Jackson will have a better major league career than Josh Vitters.

Well this isn't too bold just because Jackson currently has a better mlb career. So even though he'll never see a big league roster again, if Vitters doesn't also or fails to improve, it will remain true.

[Clem Fandango]

It seems that everyone apparently is of the opinion that Brett Jackson is finished and has no future on a big league roster. Even I'm not high on him, but I'm not ready to throw in the towel like everyone else apparently is. And yet we are still fitting him into our Top 50. And he might not make it.

 

Meanwhile Josh Vitters, who was doing well but missed most of the year due to injury after putting up an .869 OPS in AAA in 2012 and following it up with maybe the worst cup of coffee ever (7 OPS+), is considered our 19th best prospect. Why? I have no idea. He can probably poop his pants better than he can field any position on defense (Jackson is a solid defender) and he is still attempting to learn to be patient at the plate (something Jackson already is).

 

The only thing Vitters is good at doing is not striking out, because he's good at making contact. That doesn't mean he's a good hitter. He hasn't done him any favors so far in his career. Jackson, meanwhile, had an awful 2013 after management forced him to adjust his mechanics. So he was trying on a new swing for the first time in his career. And now he's doomed for the independent leagues while Vitters still has a chance at being something interesting?

 

I don't buy it. Jackson still has the athleticism. Does he need work on his swing? Sure. But the tools are there. Jackson, despite his faults, still has multiple tools that are useful. Vitters really has only ever had one: Contact. And it's the kind of contact that doesn't mean he'll be a good hitter.

 

But Vitters is our 19th best prospect while Jackson is currently having trouble sniffing Trey Masek's jockstrap, whoever Trey Masek is.

[Guest]

But Vitters is our 19th best prospect while Jackson is currently having trouble sniffing Trey Masek's jockstrap, whoever Trey Masek is.

 

Trey Masek was the Cubs fifth rounder last year and BA ranked him the 49th best prospect going into the draft.

[Tangled Up in Plaid]

I just don't get how you can think Brett Jackson can have a ML career when he's going to strike out 40% of the time. I could see it if he hit for insane power, but it's average. He has speed but that will do him as good as it did Tony Campana with his hit tool.

[Clem Fandango]

But Vitters is our 19th best prospect while Jackson is currently having trouble sniffing Trey Masek's jockstrap, whoever Trey Masek is.

 

Trey Masek was the Cubs fifth rounder last year and BA ranked him the 49th best prospect going into the draft.

 

I know who he is, it was hyperbole. Just making a point that our 2013 #6 overall prospect is a has-been because of one year now.

 

I just don't get how you can think Brett Jackson can have a ML career when he's going to strike out 40% of the time. I could see it if he hit for insane power, but it's average. He has speed but that will do him as good as it did Tony Campana with his hit tool.

 

I don't get how people can think Josh Vitters will have a career when he can't field any position and doesn't hit well enough to warrant a DH spot.

 

Also you have zero certainty that he'll have a 40% strike out rate every year he plays in the majors. He's still only 25. Is that old for a prospect? Yes. Is that washed up and out of baseball playing for hot dogs in the independent leagues? No. Also speed... okay. I may have jumped the gun on that, but at least he has a fair baserunning ability. Vitters literally only does one thing that's just okay.

[Tangled Up in Plaid]

I don't know why you're using Vitters to defend Jackson, as I haven't said one word about him. But just FYI, I didn't vote for Vitters once in any of these polls.

[Clem Fandango]

I don't know why you're using Vitters to defend Jackson, as I haven't said one word about him. But just FYI, I didn't vote for Vitters once in any of these polls.

 

Neither have I. I'm not using him to ridicule you, I'm using him as an example of a player who has had a similar loss-of-faith over the years who has, despite having less tools than Jackson, maintained some sort of perceived value over him despite having a less skillful tool set. I guess cause he's a year younger? Or he has a "contact" tool? He showed improved patience over 30 or so games last year before he got injured, sure. Before that he had some of the worst patience of all our prospects. Jackson had some of the best patience. Then he has a down year and he's banished into the nether regions of our farm system?

 

It'd be one thing if people had been growing tired of him gradually. If he was our #18 prospect or our #26 prospect last season. But he was our #6 prospect by our own accord. And now he's barely good enough to fit in our Top 50? I don't get it. That's a colossal drop off.

[davell]

I was higher on Brett than most. I'm OK with giving completely up on him now. That said, I do think its even money as to whether he has a better ML career than Vitters. Vitters and Cabrera were voted in waaaaay too early, in my opinion. Same with Dunston.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I was higher on Brett than most. I'm OK with giving completely up on him now. That said, I do think its even money as to whether he has a better ML career than Vitters.

 

I can't see how this is the case, seeing as how one guy is hitting at AAA and the other is not.

[davell]

I was higher on Brett than most. I'm OK with giving completely up on him now. That said, I do think its even money as to whether he has a better ML career than Vitters.

 

I can't see how this is the case, seeing as how one guy is hitting at AAA and the other is not.

 

Because Vitters can't field worth a [expletive]. He has no position. Because Vitters looks completely overmatched when facing major league pitching. He's injury prone. And he has average makeup at the very best. AAAA player.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I'm fine with AAAA player. Other than the overrating his "looking overmatched at MLB," I'm fine with all your descriptions of him.

 

I'm not clear on how that gives him an equal chance with Brett "17 Ks in 36 PAs at AAA" Jackson.

[jersey cubs fan]

this is why you don't waste time ranking prospects in the 40s.

[WrigleyField 22]

I won't make this about Vitters because he's been discussed so much. But Brett Jackson has absolutely fallen on his face and sucked. Even in 2012 when he put up somewhat interesting AAA numbers, they were down from his 2011 AAA numbers. He's been trending down, and the switches in his swing make me feel worse about his chances than better. Whether it was the right call or not, he's now changed it twice in two years and he already had contact issues. The defense is good but not good enough to be a defense only role player. And SSS and all but the early returns on his switch back to his old swing don't look promising.

 

 

That said, I know very little about the other guys at this point in the rankings, so maybe he deserves to be rated here, but he as rightfully fallen from where he once stood.

[Clem Fandango]

I won't make this about Vitters because he's been discussed so much. But Brett Jackson has absolutely fallen on his face and sucked. Even in 2012 when he put up somewhat interesting AAA numbers, they were down from his 2011 AAA numbers. He's been trending down, and the switches in his swing make me feel worse about his chances than better. Whether it was the right call or not, he's now changed it twice in two years and he already had contact issues. The defense is good but not good enough to be a defense only role player. And SSS and all but the early returns on his switch back to his old swing don't look promising.

 

 

That said, I know very little about the other guys at this point in the rankings, so maybe he deserves to be rated here, but he as rightfully fallen from where he once stood.

 

He deserves a big drop in rankings, I agree, as he's lost a lot of his luster. I just don't think it should've been this cataclysmic.

[davell]

I'm fine with AAAA player. Other than the overrating his "looking overmatched at MLB," I'm fine with all your descriptions of him.

 

I'm not clear on how that gives him an equal chance with Brett "17 Ks in 36 PAs at AAA" Jackson.

 

Because its entirely possible, likely in my opinion, that Vitters never does a single positive thing in the majors. I doubt he'll be able to erase the discrepancy between their shitty ML careers already.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I'm fine with AAAA player. Other than the overrating his "looking overmatched at MLB," I'm fine with all your descriptions of him.

 

I'm not clear on how that gives him an equal chance with Brett "17 Ks in 36 PAs at AAA" Jackson.

 

Because its entirely possible, likely in my opinion, that Vitters never does a single positive thing in the majors. I doubt he'll be able to erase the discrepancy between their [expletive] ML careers already.

 

OK, we're including the BABIP-induced hole Vitters is already in? I can live with that. I thought you just meant going forward.

 

Vitters could probably be a spare part in the majors, but there aren't many roster configurations that need a RH bench player who plays LF and 1b badly.

[WrigleyField 22]

I thinks he's done more than lost his luster. Maybe it's wrong, but I'd feel better about his struggles if I thought it was some type if combination of things but it seems like a pretty binary thing where he can't make contact and any other tools are moot because of that. Considering the contact thing was always his biggest weakness it seems to have finally blown up. To briefly compare the two again, I think Jackson is about 3 years from his high point as a prospect (2011) whereas Vitters is about two years from his last high point (his 2012 AAA time). Since then Vitters is obviously a bit of an enigma because he played so little last year, which is certainly a factor I dropping him. But Jackson has played and it hasn't been pretty, generally trending down consistently. So I think that year makes a difference. If Vitters can't stay on the field or falls on his face as a hitter or doesn't make progress at his new position, you'll rightfully see a similar drop. I think people are generally more likely to give a mulligan on a injury shortened season that showed even a little bit of hope than a just plain bad season. And I think that's the big difference, Brett had a confirmation of fears with little light at the end if the tunnel whereas Vitters has a frustrating year and a dim light at the end of the tunnel.

[davell]

Vitters hit NOTHING hard when in the majors. [expletive] BABIP. Groundouts that barely reach the dirt and pop ups to the IF dont become hits. He hit pitchers pitches, just as many predicted would happen. What he DID do that was unexpected though, was also K a [expletive] ton. He sucks. Seriously.

[davell]

As far as Brett goes:I thought that if he'd be able to keep his ML K rate even under 33%, he'd stick on a roster. But I think that ship has sailed too. If either of these guys is still on our 40 man roster at this time next year, I'll be in utter disbelief.