The 2012 Offseason Thread

[davell]

Yeah Tim. And he's a FA in 2 years. You letting him walk?

 

You signing him after its found out that he had his arm amputated??

Arm amputee surgery is the new Tommy John.

[abuck1220]

Oh, please. Goony said it is impossible to get great players without paying exorbitant prices. I used an example to shoot that down as obvious nonsense.

 

and how are the cubs going to "get" kershaw?

[KingCubsFan]

Oh, please. Goony said it is impossible to get great players without paying exorbitant prices. I used an example to shoot that down as obvious nonsense.

So we're only going to sign/trade for mediocre-good FA (Jackson, Hairston, Dejesus, etc) and all of the great players need to come from the system so that we get them on cheap contracts before they hit FA and then let them walk and if we fail to produce them we just won't look to acquire any?

The elite organizations either produce them from their own system or trade for them before they hit free agency. Pretty sure that's the Cubs' plan.

[abuck1220]

Oh, please. Goony said it is impossible to get great players without paying exorbitant prices. I used an example to shoot that down as obvious nonsense.

So we're only going to sign/trade for mediocre-good FA (Jackson, Hairston, Dejesus, etc) and all of the great players need to come from the system so that we get them on cheap contracts before they hit FA and then let them walk and if we fail to produce them we just won't look to acquire any?

The elite organizations either produce them from their own system or trade for them before they hit free agency. Pretty sure that's the Cubs' plan.

 

examples please.

[imb]

Yeah Tim. And he's a FA in 2 years. You letting him walk?

 

You signing him after its found out that he had his arm amputated??

Arm amputee surgery is the new Tommy John.

 

you need to have the kid's arm cut off in high school so its out of the way by the time he's a pro

[Guest]

Oh, please. Goony said it is impossible to get great players without paying exorbitant prices. I used an example to shoot that down as obvious nonsense.

 

That was quite possibly the stupidest example you could have possibly used.

Saying that it is impossible to have a great player without a bad contract is the stupid part. There are many great players that do not have bad contracts. Pre-FA players are the biggest pool of them, but there are also great players that get signed to reasonable deals.

 

Just admit you made a stupid statement as unnecessary hyperbole and we'll move on.

[Guest]

I don't think having "great" players is even close to being a prerequisite to winning a World Series or winning consistently and making the playoffs most years.

 

They definitely help, but it's more about the overall product. It's not like other team sports in that way.

 

And you'll probably luck into a great one or two anyway if you have a farm that is consistently producing viable big league starters.

[Guest]

Yeah Tim. And he's a FA in 2 years. You letting him walk?

I'm not signing him to a seven year contract.

[KingCubsFan]

Oh, please. Goony said it is impossible to get great players without paying exorbitant prices. I used an example to shoot that down as obvious nonsense.

So we're only going to sign/trade for mediocre-good FA (Jackson, Hairston, Dejesus, etc) and all of the great players need to come from the system so that we get them on cheap contracts before they hit FA and then let them walk and if we fail to produce them we just won't look to acquire any?

The elite organizations either produce them from their own system or trade for them before they hit free agency. Pretty sure that's the Cubs' plan.

 

examples please.

Well I think there's two pretty obvious ones. One of which is already signed to a large extension.

[Guest]

Oh, please. Goony said it is impossible to get great players without paying exorbitant prices. I used an example to shoot that down as obvious nonsense.

So we're only going to sign/trade for mediocre-good FA (Jackson, Hairston, Dejesus, etc) and all of the great players need to come from the system so that we get them on cheap contracts before they hit FA and then let them walk and if we fail to produce them we just won't look to acquire any?

I've already stated that I'm perfectly willing to overpay for the right position players.

[Guest]

Oh, please. Goony said it is impossible to get great players without paying exorbitant prices. I used an example to shoot that down as obvious nonsense.

 

and how are the cubs going to "get" kershaw?

If I'm in charge, we likely won't get him as I won't hand out the contract that someone else will.

[abuck1220]

Oh, please. Goony said it is impossible to get great players without paying exorbitant prices. I used an example to shoot that down as obvious nonsense.

 

and how are the cubs going to "get" kershaw?

If I'm in charge, we likely won't get him as I won't hand out the contract that someone else will.

 

so then he's not an example of a great player that you can get without paying exorbinant prices.

[Guest]

I'll be a bit more explicit here, though I don't have time to really flesh this out.

 

I've come to believe the following tenets:

 

1) Offense is more predictable than pitching for a variety of reasons

2) One of the big reasons for #1 is the risk of injury for pitchers

3) Another big driver is the way that the nature of pitchers' performance changes as they age (I admittedly don't have as much data I'd like for this belief, though)

4) The aging profile for hitters, while not perfect by any means, is more predictable

5) Defense has a very significant impact on the performance of the pitchers

6) While funds are likely to increase significantly, they are still finite

 

As a result, I would much prefer to bias the allocation of my resources towards position players. I think you can win more consistently and have a longer window of opportunity with a great offense and "good enough" pitching. Obviously, I would want to maximize everything as well as possible within this framework. But I would not commit my resources to an inherently bad risk like a seven year contract to any pitcher. I would much rather make that investment in position players and live with the best I could do on the pitching side with less commitment.

 

I'm obviously biased, but the logic above doesn't seem that outlandish to me. I can certainly understand why others would feel differently, but there's the short version of why I believe as I do.

[Guest]

Oh, please. Goony said it is impossible to get great players without paying exorbitant prices. I used an example to shoot that down as obvious nonsense.

 

and how are the cubs going to "get" kershaw?

If I'm in charge, we likely won't get him as I won't hand out the contract that someone else will.

 

so then he's not an example of a great player that you can get without paying exorbinant prices.

Yes, he is an example of a great player that is not being overpaid. What part are you missing?

[imb]

isnt he in his arb years still? why the [expletive] is he even being mentioned in this conversation

[Guest]

isnt he in his arb years still? why the [expletive] is he even being mentioned in this conversation

Because goony said something obviously wrong and I used him as a counter example.

[imb]

isnt he in his arb years still? why the [expletive] is he even being mentioned in this conversation

Because goony said something obviously wrong and I used him as a counter example.

 

http://i.imgur.com/m7L6Irj.jpg

[Ding Dong Johnson]

isnt he in his arb years still? why the [expletive] is he even being mentioned in this conversation

Because goony said something obviously wrong and I used him as a counter example.

You don't think Kershaw will be paid an exorbitant amount when he hits FA?

[Guest]

isnt he in his arb years still? why the [expletive] is he even being mentioned in this conversation

Because goony said something obviously wrong and I used him as a counter example.

You don't think Kershaw will be paid an exorbitant amount when he hits FA?

 

The Dodgers got a great player without paying an exorbitant amount of money, so obviously it is not true that you can not acquire a great player without paying an exorbitant amount of money.

[Tracer Bullet]

isnt he in his arb years still? why the [expletive] is he even being mentioned in this conversation

Because goony said something obviously wrong and I used him as a counter example.

You don't think Kershaw will be paid an exorbitant amount when he hits FA?

 

The Dodgers got a great player without paying an exorbitant amount of money, so obviously it is not true that you can not acquire a great player without paying an exorbitant amount of money.

 

You can draft players that eventually become great players. I suppose if you think that's what jersey meant when he said "get," then I can maybe see why kershaw is relevant. Doesn't seem like a reasonable way to read his statement though.

[SouthSideRyan]

Well, I don't see why we should pay big money for offense. Just look at how cheap Starlin Castro and Anthony Rizzo are.

[Guest]

isnt he in his arb years still? why the [expletive] is he even being mentioned in this conversation

Because goony said something obviously wrong and I used him as a counter example.

You don't think Kershaw will be paid an exorbitant amount when he hits FA?

That's not the point. He's on a team and providing great performance and he's not being paid an exorbitant amount. Goony said that was impossible.

 

Why is this so hard to understand?

[Guest]

Well, I don't see why we should pay big money for offense. Just look at how cheap Starlin Castro and Anthony Rizzo are.

Also missing the point.

[Guest]

Here are a couple different examples:

 

Halladay: 3 yrs / $60M

Cliff Lee: 5 yrs / $120M

 

Both better bets than Felix at 7/$175. It is not impossible to get great players for less than exorbitant prices.

[SouthSideRyan]

Here are a couple different examples:

 

Halladay: 3 yrs / $60M

Cliff Lee: 5 yrs / $120M

 

Both better bets than Felix at 7/$175. It is not impossible to get great players for less than exorbitant prices.

 

Those deals were signed 2 and 3 offseasons ago, and they were both at least 5 years older than Hernandez when they signed them.