The 2012 Offseason Thread

[Tryptamine]

I'm a fan of this. Stocking up the bullpen with high potential arms which can be flipped for prospects in the future. It's a cheap low risk way to continue strengthening the farm.

[Guest]

he had tjs in july?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

http://www.npbtracker.com/data/player.php?p_id=199

 

This has me a little less excited. Average fastball velocity down to 88 MPH last season. But maybe rest and TJS can goose it up a little for a one-year run with the Cubs.

[Pushfrog98]

velocity usually goes up after TJS, but I'm not sure how that will effect a 36 year old sidewinder.

[davell]

No clue about the guy, but hard not to like the innovativeness. Maybe he's a good BP arm for us next year.

[Guest]

he had tjs in july?

 

Yeah. Probably won't be ready to start the season. Hope the injury that led to TJS was the reason for the drop in velocity and he'll bounce back when healthy.

[Burtonbell]

This is from MLBtraderumors.com:

 

The split contract is worth up to $5MM at the big league level, and it includes an interpreter and a personal trainer.

Lim, 36, is currently rehabbing from his second Tommy John surgery, and the Cubs don't expect him back until 2014. Roughly a half-dozen clubs made contract offers, including the Red Sox and Rangers. Lim had been with the Yakult Swallows in Japan since 2008 after spending several years with the Samsung Lions in South Korea. He pitched to a 2.09 ERA with 8.9 K/9 and 128 saves during his time with Yakult.

Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#TeD28IV8J4JiKysf.99

 

So this looks like a long term rehab project for Theo and company. The contract also seems very incentive laden. Can't hurt to have some extra arms in 2014 I guess.

[treebird]

i love crazy sidearm pitchers so this is cool with me

[Cubswin11]

Fom an Olney tweet, figured it was worth mentioning.

 

Over the last week, have heard compliments from other teams about the way that the Cubs are methodically rebuilding, from the ground up.

[CubInOK]

Fom an Olney tweet, figured it was worth mentioning.

 

Over the last week, have heard compliments from other teams about the way that the Cubs are methodically rebuilding, from the ground up.

This is because all of the other teams are serious about winning and we're not.

[Backtobanks]

Fom an Olney tweet, figured it was worth mentioning.

 

Over the last week, have heard compliments from other teams about the way that the Cubs are methodically rebuilding, from the ground up.

 

I just hope we're not reading this same tweet for 2-3 more years.

[Guest]

I absolutely love the much needed baseball infrastructure upgrades (understatement) that have happened and are happening. I just wish we could make the major league team more watchable in the meanwhile (and maybe we are doing that).

 

Overall, though, I'm really happy with the direction of the organization.

 

Is this how most of the people feel?

[Guest]

I absolutely love the much needed baseball infrastructure upgrades (understatement) that have happened and are happening. I just wish we could make the major league team more watchable in the meanwhile (and maybe we are doing that).

 

Overall, though, I'm really happy with the direction of the organization.

 

Is this how most of the people feel?

Yeah, pretty much. I do think the big league team will surprise some people this year (by being average instead of bad).

[KingCubsFan]

I absolutely love the much needed baseball infrastructure upgrades (understatement) that have happened and are happening. I just wish we could make the major league team more watchable in the meanwhile (and maybe we are doing that).

 

Overall, though, I'm really happy with the direction of the organization.

 

Is this how most of the people feel?

Absolutely. The fact that they actually have a concrete plan and direction for the first time in 20+ years is refreshing. And it's nice to root for a team that actually has a front office/minor league infrastructure on par with the rest of the league and not lagging decades behind. The fact that they might lose a lot of games next year doesn't bother me at all, considering they were losing a lot of games before Theo got here.

[Guest]

I absolutely love the much needed baseball infrastructure upgrades (understatement) that have happened and are happening. I just wish we could make the major league team more watchable in the meanwhile (and maybe we are doing that).

 

Overall, though, I'm really happy with the direction of the organization.

 

Is this how most of the people feel?

Absolutely. The fact that they actually have a concrete plan and direction for the first time in 20+ years is refreshing. And it's nice to root for a team that actually has a front office/minor league infrastructure on par with the rest of the league and not lagging decades behind. The fact that they might lose a lot of games next year doesn't bother me at all, considering they were losing a lot of games before Theo got here.

 

I feel like that's taking it a bit far.

 

The fact that they have been losing lots of games recently shouldn't make it not matter to you that they lose now and in the short term future.

[KingCubsFan]

I absolutely love the much needed baseball infrastructure upgrades (understatement) that have happened and are happening. I just wish we could make the major league team more watchable in the meanwhile (and maybe we are doing that).

 

Overall, though, I'm really happy with the direction of the organization.

 

Is this how most of the people feel?

Absolutely. The fact that they actually have a concrete plan and direction for the first time in 20+ years is refreshing. And it's nice to root for a team that actually has a front office/minor league infrastructure on par with the rest of the league and not lagging decades behind. The fact that they might lose a lot of games next year doesn't bother me at all, considering they were losing a lot of games before Theo got here.

 

I feel like that's taking it a bit far.

 

The fact that they have been losing lots of games recently shouldn't make it not matter to you that they lose now and in the short term future.

My point was that I'm OK with losing now, given that the direction of the organization is heading upwards, whereas before it was pointing down. I'd obviously prefer they win, but it's easier to stomach the losses knowing that the team has a long-term vision that I agree with. Beforehand, each successive year was essentially a patch-up job attempting to copy last year's World Series winner (and listening to the whims of our managers) with the hope that, if everything went right, the team might be good.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I absolutely love the much needed baseball infrastructure upgrades (understatement) that have happened and are happening. I just wish we could make the major league team more watchable in the meanwhile (and maybe we are doing that).

 

Overall, though, I'm really happy with the direction of the organization.

 

Is this how most of the people feel?

 

I'm on the fence. They screwed the pooch hard in 2012. They're halfway to something not-awful in 2013, but we'll see if they have the will and skill to finish that job. If they don't make some very savvy moves in the remaining half-offseason, they are putting themselves in an awfully bad spot for 2014 as well. But they make enough good moves that I get the impression that when they decide they want to turn it on, it might be impressive.

 

For 2015 and beyond, I'm sure we'll get to the point where the team is pretty good for an extended stretch. But I don't think the other teams in the division are going to just roll over and let us win six straight or anything, so I'm not sure we're actually going to get good bang for our buck ultimately. If you have something like 3 tanked seasons, then 4 division titles in 8 years, have you really come out ahead?

[Hairyducked Idiot]

My point was that I'm OK with losing now, given that the direction of the organization is heading upwards, whereas before it was pointing down. I'd obviously prefer they win, but it's easier to stomach the losses knowing that the team has a long-term vision that I agree with. Beforehand, each successive year was essentially a patch-up job attempting to copy last year's World Series winner (and listening to the whims of our managers) with the hope that, if everything went right, the team might be good.

 

It's definitely better. But I was hoping when we hired Epstein that we'd be aiming for slightly higher than "well, it's not as bad as the Tribune/MacPhail/Hendry era."

[Guest]

I absolutely love the much needed baseball infrastructure upgrades (understatement) that have happened and are happening. I just wish we could make the major league team more watchable in the meanwhile (and maybe we are doing that).

 

Overall, though, I'm really happy with the direction of the organization.

 

Is this how most of the people feel?

 

I'm on the fence. They screwed the pooch hard in 2012. They're halfway to something not-awful in 2013, but we'll see if they have the will and skill to finish that job. If they don't make some very savvy moves in the remaining half-offseason, they are putting themselves in an awfully bad spot for 2014 as well. But they make enough good moves that I get the impression that when they decide they want to turn it on, it might be impressive.

 

For 2015 and beyond, I'm sure we'll get to the point where the team is pretty good for an extended stretch. But I don't think the other teams in the division are going to just roll over and let us win six straight or anything, so I'm not sure we're actually going to get good bang for our buck ultimately. If you have something like 3 tanked seasons, then 4 division titles in 8 years, have you really come out ahead?

 

If you combine the young talent base they'll have with big free agent signings (assuming they flex their financial muscles at that point and aren't really trying to become the Rays) + they have the increased revenue from stuff like the Wrigley renovation and a TV deal, I could see them being that dominant.. Maybe not 6 straight, but I wouldn't be all that shocked if they made the playoffs every year and won the division 7/10 years or something. Combining Dodgers money with a really good core of players in their early mid 20's (who we'd be able to keep all of if we so choose) would be hard for any of those teams to match up with (not that a fluke 2004 Cardinals season can't happen or something).

 

That's a lot of ifs though.

[mul21]

I absolutely love the much needed baseball infrastructure upgrades (understatement) that have happened and are happening. I just wish we could make the major league team more watchable in the meanwhile (and maybe we are doing that).

 

Overall, though, I'm really happy with the direction of the organization.

 

Is this how most of the people feel?

 

I'm on the fence. They screwed the pooch hard in 2012. They're halfway to something not-awful in 2013, but we'll see if they have the will and skill to finish that job. If they don't make some very savvy moves in the remaining half-offseason, they are putting themselves in an awfully bad spot for 2014 as well. But they make enough good moves that I get the impression that when they decide they want to turn it on, it might be impressive.

 

For 2015 and beyond, I'm sure we'll get to the point where the team is pretty good for an extended stretch. But I don't think the other teams in the division are going to just roll over and let us win six straight or anything, so I'm not sure we're actually going to get good bang for our buck ultimately. If you have something like 3 tanked seasons, then 4 division titles in 8 years, have you really come out ahead?

 

Definitely, because you're giving yourself a legitimate chance every year instead of just hoping things work out. If they're in the hunt, they can add pieces each year and the 2 wild cards always gives you another chance even if you don't win the division every year.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

That's asking for an awful lot to go right, and assuming that the CBA won't continue to restrict the financial advantages Dodger money would infer.

 

It's pretty Cub-like to be the last to the table on those sorts of competitive advantages, right as they are shut down.

[Guest]

That's asking for an awful lot to go right, and assuming that the CBA won't continue to restrict the financial advantages Dodger money would infer.

 

It's pretty Cub-like to be the last to the table on those sorts of competitive advantages, right as they are shut down.

 

I think the biggest thing to worry about would be the TV money thing going away before we can take advantage of it.

 

I don't see baseball ever getting to the point where money isn't a big advantage at the ML level.

[KingCubsFan]

My point was that I'm OK with losing now, given that the direction of the organization is heading upwards, whereas before it was pointing down. I'd obviously prefer they win, but it's easier to stomach the losses knowing that the team has a long-term vision that I agree with. Beforehand, each successive year was essentially a patch-up job attempting to copy last year's World Series winner (and listening to the whims of our managers) with the hope that, if everything went right, the team might be good.

 

It's definitely better. But I was hoping when we hired Epstein that we'd be aiming for slightly higher than "well, it's not as bad as the Tribune/MacPhail/Hendry era."

I think it's 1,000,000x better. But I guess if you have tunnel vision and are only looking at how many losses they had last year, I could see how you wouldn't be a fan of what they're doing.

[Guest]

My point was that I'm OK with losing now, given that the direction of the organization is heading upwards, whereas before it was pointing down. I'd obviously prefer they win, but it's easier to stomach the losses knowing that the team has a long-term vision that I agree with. Beforehand, each successive year was essentially a patch-up job attempting to copy last year's World Series winner (and listening to the whims of our managers) with the hope that, if everything went right, the team might be good.

 

It's definitely better. But I was hoping when we hired Epstein that we'd be aiming for slightly higher than "well, it's not as bad as the Tribune/MacPhail/Hendry era."

I think it's 1,000,000x better. But I guess if you have tunnel vision and are only looking at how many losses they had last year, I could see how you wouldn't be a fan of what they're doing.

 

I don't think Kyle has tunnel vision so much as he isn't huge on prospects.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

I don't think Kyle has tunnel vision so much as he isn't huge on prospects.

 

I prefer to think of it as I put prospects in their proper perspective. I love prospects, I absolutely do.

 

But sometime in the last two years, a contingent of Cubs fans has declared prospects uber alles as their creed, taking it to an absurd degree such that mere trifles like Major League wins and losses are considered purely secondary concerns if they are even worth noticing at all.

 

Yeah, relative to them it probably seems like I hate prospects. And it probably seems that way even more because I'm not one of those "Oh man, once every single one of our A-ball guys hits the big-league lineup in two years, they'll all be all-stars!" guys.

 

But in reality, I love prospects truer than anyone, because I love them for what they truly are.

 

(how's *that* for a maelstrom)