Trade Castro?

[SouthSideRyan]

I'm not going to rehash this entire argument again. The last couple months of the year are very promising. But we shouldn't just pretend that the first half of the year didn't exist, either.

 

Should we pretend like there wasn't a hitting coach change coinciding with Starlin's improved patience?

[Guest]

I'm not going to rehash this entire argument again. The last couple months of the year are very promising. But we shouldn't just pretend that the first half of the year didn't exist, either.

 

Should we pretend like there wasn't a hitting coach change coinciding with Starlin's improved patience?

Whatever helps you sleep at night, man.

[Sammy Sofa]

I can't; the projections are giving me the night terrors.

[SouthSideRyan]

Cabrera? Orlando Cabrera? hahhaahaaha

[SouthSideRyan]

All Castro has to do to match Cabrera's offensive output is to have negative 2 more seasons of above average hitting.

[Guest]

I can't; the projections are giving me the night terrors.

Please, so that I may respond appropriately, are you:

 

1) disagreeing with the need to make projections about a player's career path

2) disagreeing with my position that taking a step back offensively in his age 22 season alters the projection for Starlin

3) just being an ass?

 

I have a feeling it is number three.

[Sammy Sofa]

It's a real smorgasbord.

 

Mainly though it's that I don't think half a season at age 22 has all that much impact as to whether he's HOF player or, laughably, Cabrera. I'm mostly amused by how much stock you seem to be placing in it.

[treebird]

All Castro has to do to match Cabrera's offensive output is to have negative 2 more seasons of above average hitting.

 

plus templeton is a freakin rat so that should be easy to beat

[Guest]

All Castro has to do to match Cabrera's offensive output is to have negative 2 more seasons of above average hitting.

Yes, My memory of Cabrera was too high.

 

Use Renteria as a good/very good but not HOF comp.

[Guest]

It's a real smorgasbord.

 

Mainly though it's that I don't think half a season at age 22 has all that much impact as to whether he's HOF player or, laughably, Cabrera. I'm mostly amused by how much stock you seem to be placing in it.

1) full season.

2) If you're looking at potential trade offers from other teams like Upton + Bauer + Davidson -- whether you project Starlin as "really good" or "hof" is kinda critical to the equation, don't you think?

[Sammy Sofa]

There shouldn't be a question as to whether or not to trade him at this point unless a team is offering you something insane.

 

And you're just too hooked on the projections. Worrying that the 22-year-old won't go into beast mode because his age 22 season wasn't gangbusters seems...faulty.

Edited November 11, 2012 by Sammy Sofa

[USSoccer]

All Castro has to do to match Cabrera's offensive output is to have negative 2 more seasons of above average hitting.

 

plus templeton is a freakin rat so that should be easy to beat

 

YES

[USSoccer]

It's a real smorgasbord.

 

Mainly though it's that I don't think half a season at age 22 has all that much impact as to whether he's HOF player or, laughably, Cabrera. I'm mostly amused by how much stock you seem to be placing in it.

1) full season.

2) If you're looking at potential trade offers from other teams like Upton + Bauer + Davidson -- whether you project Starlin as "really good" or "hof" is kinda critical to the equation, don't you think?

 

Half his season showed increased patience, which coincided with a change in hitting coach. How is the back half weighed more heavily than the front half? 22 year old players are pretty fungible in terms of their ability to grow.

 

Also, 22 year old cost controlled SS's with plus tools don't just grow on trees. Not these days, anyway. If someone wants to trade for him we should rightly ask for all the things.

[Guest]

Thanks a lot, Phil Rogers.

[USSoccer]

Thanks a lot, Phil Rogers.

 

HIS HACKERY WILL TEAR US APART

[Iloveoldstyle]

Orlando Cabrera?

 

Edgar Renteria sounds like a safe bet projection IMO

[toonsterwu]

Nothing should be off the table as it pertains to rebuilding this club, so the idea of trading Castro isn't a bad one. If you get a big enough haul, of course you do it. Furthermore, shortstop is arguably the deepest spot in the system, with 4-5 quality prospects.

 

That said, on the Rogers article ...

 

a) Don't believe Upton for Castro makes sense for us. I think I'd honestly want more than Upton, but I haven't analyzed it. I doubt the D-backs would offer more.

 

b) The idea that you trade Castro now because Baez can play short, which is what Rogers suggested, is ludicrous in this regard - Baez is only in A+ and while he has loads of potential, there's also some areas of concern. You don't trade Castro now because of Baez. You trade Castro if you get a gigantic, ridiculous, stupid return that makes sense, otherwise, despite his flaws, Castro is a premier player at a premier position at a premier age.

 

c) I don't get the need to target Upton. If you are going to argue that system depth allows you to move Castro, well, CF is probably the 2nd deepest position in the system. Granted, there's only 1 prime chip as of now, and 2 guys that you hope can be decent starters, but have question marks. Still ... I don't see the need to trade an elite shortstop talent for an elite CF talent. If anything, if we dealt Castro, I'd want a prime, ready quality young MLB starter PLUS at least another high quality upper level arm as the START of the package.

[toonsterwu]

I go out of my way to avoid Phil Rodgers because quite simply he's stupid on a Joe Morgan level. With that said, it all depends on what's offered. If the Dbacks were willing to part with Upton/Bauer/Wheeler for Castro/BJax then I'm game, but that's not going to happen.

 

Eh, I'd want more than that.

 

Actually, I don't really want Upton. I'd demand 2 of their quality young arms as the start to a package.

[toonsterwu]

Upton, Corbin, and one of Bauer or Skaggs for Castro. No way Arizona would do it, but it'd take that for me to deal him. I want him to be a lifelong Cub basically.

 

I wouldn't trade Castro, but if for some reason the Cubs were pondering it, I'd tell the Diamondbacks, go call the Rays up for a young pitcher and change, and demand Skaggs or Bauer/Patrick Corbin/Archie Bradley and another piece. There's no way the Diamondbacks would do it, but to trade an elite young shortstop, I'd want to address the Cubs main need on the arm side.

 

Anyhow, I highly doubt they are really considering dealing Castro. I'm sure they'd listen, but it'd have to take a dang heap to make this happen. This feels like Phil Rogers wanting to throw something out there to get attention. I don't recall the article "sourcing" things to some sort of scout or executive in regards to the potential for this to happen (IIRC, the article talked about how scouts were enthused with Baez's potential, but that's the extent it "sourced" things).

[Guest]

i'm not trading castro for any package where justin upton is the best player.

[Guest]

i'm not trading castro for any package where justin upton is the best player.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but it's not quite as clear-cut as you're suggesting: http://www.fangraphs.com/comparison.aspx?playerid=4579&position=SS&page=8&players=5222

 

Obviously, that ignores a few things like defensive value, positional scarcity, contract, years of control, etc. Those all tilt the scales towards Castro. But to this point in their careers and through the same ages, Upton has clearly been the better offensive player of the two. And it's not really close at all.

[SouthSideRyan]

It's not really close between Prince Fielder and Starlin Castro on who has been the better offensive player either. As long as we ignore the other 8 factors that come into play, I think we should pull the trigger on that one.

[Guest]

It's not really close between Prince Fielder and Starlin Castro on who has been the better offensive player either. As long as we ignore the other 8 factors that come into play, I think we should pull the trigger on that one.

Right. Same thing.

[Guest]

It's not really close between Prince Fielder and Starlin Castro on who has been the better offensive player either. As long as we ignore the other 8 factors that come into play, I think we should pull the trigger on that one.

Right. Same thing.

 

It is odd that you made that statement that ignores all those things that are really important to value.

 

I don't see what it matters that Upton has been the clearly better offensive player when you take out all that other really important stuff.

[Iloveoldstyle]

http://interact.stltoday.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=920687

 

even the talking piles of dirt are talking about it...warning that some of their cards-for-castro trade ideas are the thoughts and ramblings of brainless piles of dirt...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"We have a shortstop with play off experience in Kozma. We ought to explore an even swap! Go Mo get that one done!"

-- Talking Pile of Dirt