Re: 2012-13 Chicago Bulls Thread

[Banedon]

Who the hell are you responding to?

 

A few.

 

The Bulls will never land a star player. Chicago is just not an enticing place for players.

 

Bingo. I think we're getting to the point where Rose needs to actively recruit and hype up Chicago, the city.

 

And then the weird cubbievirus one that you already responded to.

[UMFan83]

I am so sick of people questioning Rose for taking the max deal off his freaking rookie contract and then pointing out Miamis stars on their 3rd contract taking slightly less. Please point out one NBA star coming off their rookie contract taking less than max when they were worth max. Also I'm sure the players association would have been thrilled with Rose for not agreeing to the new provision that they negotiated into the CBA, which was basically designed with him in mind and was widely referred to as the "Derrick Rose provision" before it was even ratified. It's a completely different scenario than the Miami 3 trying to fit 3 max worthy players onto one team at the same time. Please just stop with that crap.

[Sammy Sofa]

Who the hell are you responding to?

 

A few.

 

The Bulls will never land a star player. Chicago is just not an enticing place for players.

 

Bingo. I think we're getting to the point where Rose needs to actively recruit and hype up Chicago, the city.

 

And then the weird cubbievirus one that you already responded to.

 

Most of the talk about Rose recruiting is obviously referring back to when the Bulls were spending and there were big names available at the time and Rose made it pretty clear he thought he didn't have to do that/they didn't really need another star.

[KingCubsFan]

Who the hell are you responding to?

 

A few.

 

The Bulls will never land a star player. Chicago is just not an enticing place for players.

 

Perhaps I shouldn't have said it with that type of finality, but I'm not really sure what's wrong with this conclusion. Since Jordan retired, we've tried to sign big names on multiple occasions and struck out pretty badly with stars (Grant Hill, Tracy McGrady, LeBron James, Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosh, etc.). Wish I could find the article, but I remember reading something a while back where agents were surveyed and it was largely verified that most players are not that interested in playing in Chicago.

[KingCubsFan]

I am so sick of people questioning Rose for taking the max deal off his freaking rookie contract and then pointing out Miamis stars on their 3rd contract taking slightly less. Please point out one NBA star coming off their rookie contract taking less than max when they were worth max. Also I'm sure the players association would have been thrilled with Rose for not agreeing to the new provision that they negotiated into the CBA, which was basically designed with him in mind and was widely referred to as the "Derrick Rose provision" before it was even ratified. It's a completely different scenario than the Miami 3 trying to fit 3 max worthy players onto one team at the same time. Please just stop with that crap.

I don't blame him at all. He absolutely should have taken it...he deserved it. But Reggie Rose tried to pin all of the blame on the Bulls while making Derrick out to be the innocent superstar who's locked into dealing with nothing but inferior talent with no say in the matter.

[Thed Hoyerstein]

I am so sick of people questioning Rose for taking the max deal off his freaking rookie contract and then pointing out Miamis stars on their 3rd contract taking slightly less. Please point out one NBA star coming off their rookie contract taking less than max when they were worth max. Also I'm sure the players association would have been thrilled with Rose for not agreeing to the new provision that they negotiated into the CBA, which was basically designed with him in mind and was widely referred to as the "Derrick Rose provision" before it was even ratified. It's a completely different scenario than the Miami 3 trying to fit 3 max worthy players onto one team at the same time. Please just stop with that crap.

I don't blame him at all. He absolutely should have taken it...he deserved it. But Reggie Rose tried to pin all of the blame on the Bulls while making Derrick out to be the innocent superstar who's locked into dealing with nothing but inferior talent with no say in the matter.

 

 

This was my point as well. I, and 99% of people, would have done exactly the same thing as Derrick did in accepting the contract, but it's kinda irritating to hear Reggie say that they're not bringing in people when Derrick's new contract has limited the Bulls' cap flexibility. Furthermore, the whispers on how Reggie has become to the possible fall guy for Derrick (whether that's true or not, we'll probably never know) kinda signals a red flag to me.

 

As mentioned earlier, it still doesn't excuse the decision to extend Taj for that kind of money. To me, that almost goes against the "not going for it this year" because I don't see how Taj becomes a better player and it's questionable as to whether how much value he adds as the 3rd big for the next 4 years. In the short-term, there's no doubt that he makes the Bulls better, but how will this contract look in 3 years when we're trying to extend Kevin Love?

[Banedon]

As mentioned earlier, it still doesn't excuse the decision to extend Taj for that kind of money. To me, that almost goes against the "not going for it this year" because I don't see how Taj becomes a better player and it's questionable as to whether how much value he adds as the 3rd big.

 

Well you couldn't let Asik and Taj both walk. We already have no bigs that Thibs is willing to play after Noah-Boozer-Taj.

 

So would you rather pay Asik or Taj?

[Banedon]

Who the hell are you responding to?

 

A few.

 

The Bulls will never land a star player. Chicago is just not an enticing place for players.

 

Perhaps I shouldn't have said it with that type of finality, but I'm not really sure what's wrong with this conclusion. Since Jordan retired, we've tried to sign big names on multiple occasions and struck out pretty badly with stars (Grant Hill, Tracy McGrady, LeBron James, Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosh, etc.). Wish I could find the article, but I remember reading something a while back where agents were surveyed and it was largely verified that most players are not that interested in playing in Chicago.

 

Lebron, Wade and Bosh were a pretty damn unique circumstance that really didn't have a lot to do with "Chicago isn't enticing". I don't recall the exact time frame when the Bulls were pursuring either Hill or McGrady, but wasn't the team pretty crummy when those guys were available? And a name you didn't mention, that we know isn't interested in Chicago, is Dwight Howard, but that guy has been so weird about everything, that I can hardly call him representative of the entire player base.

 

Maybe I'm going to the opposite extreme to excuse things, and I won't say that there's probably not a fair number of players that would prefer to play in other cities, but I think it's more about feeling like Chicago is a place where a championship can be won. And I think there was some question about that when Lebron and co. were FA's.

[Thed Hoyerstein]

As mentioned earlier, it still doesn't excuse the decision to extend Taj for that kind of money. To me, that almost goes against the "not going for it this year" because I don't see how Taj becomes a better player and it's questionable as to whether how much value he adds as the 3rd big.

 

Well you couldn't let Asik and Taj both walk. We already have no bigs that Thibs is willing to play after Noah-Boozer-Taj.

 

So would you rather pay Asik or Taj?

 

That's why I said that in the short-term, Taj makes the team better. But if they really feel like Taj, a very good bench player, is part of a championship core, then I'm really confused.

 

I don't see how allocating $9.5m/year to a bench-player, defensive specialist is going to put this team over the top. Especially when you're seeing the current trend is teams going smaller, faster with lineups that don't feature a traditional PF and C. Just look at Miami putting LeBron at the 4, OKC with Durant at 4, Knicks with Carmelo at 4, etc. Let's face it, these are the teams the Bulls need to beat in order to win the title, and it's debatable as to whether Taj would even play in those crunch minutes.

[UMFan83]

I don't think Chicago is a premier NBA destination, but I don't think its a particularly unattractive destination either. It's probably right after Miami, NY, LA, Orlando and Phoenix in terms of places an NBA player would want to play. It's even higher profile because of MJ's legacy and the fact that the Bulls currently have a team first superstar. Melo and Kobe both were open to playing with the Bulls when they wanted out of their current destinations. Occasionally you'll get someone like Howard, but it's not like we're in Cleveland or even somewhere like Portland.

[KingCubsFan]

I don't think Chicago is a premier NBA destination, but I don't think its a particularly unattractive destination either. It's probably right after Miami, NY, LA, Orlando and Phoenix in terms of places an NBA player would want to play. It's even higher profile because of MJ's legacy and the fact that the Bulls currently have a team first superstar. Melo and Kobe both were open to playing with the Bulls when they wanted out of their current destinations. Occasionally you'll get someone like Howard, but it's not like we're in Cleveland or even somewhere like Portland.

By all accounts, Chicago was nothing more than a ploy for Carmelo to get to New York. And that's really all Chicago is for these guys: a good backup choice. That's why I'm against the Bulls trying to employ a strategy whereby they clear up cap space for a run at a superstar in free agency. The odds are not good in that situation.

[Old Style]

How much does Rose get from the Bulls each year? $16MM? How much does he get from Adidas? $25MM? Plus he has other endorsements I believe. I don't blame the guy for wanting and getting a max deal from the Bulls but he can easily take a few million less to allow the Bulls to add a player that will help him win a championship if he requires more talent around him. It's not like anyone in his family is going to starve. Players need to realize that there is a salary cap which makes it very difficult to build a great team.

[ConstableRabbit]

How much does Rose get from the Bulls each year? $16MM? How much does he get from Adidas? $25MM? Plus he has other endorsements I believe. I don't blame the guy for wanting and getting a max deal from the Bulls but he can easily take a few million less to allow the Bulls to add a player that will help him win a championship if he requires more talent around him. It's not like anyone in his family is going to starve. Players need to realize that there is a salary cap which makes it very difficult to build a great team.

Let's say it's $4m. Would you take a 10% paycut because your employer asked you to, since they didn't want to pay your full salary anymore? I sure wouldn't.

 

And that's 25% of his actual salary. How much Adidas pays him isn't any concern of the Bulls.

[Old Style]

How much does Rose get from the Bulls each year? $16MM? How much does he get from Adidas? $25MM? Plus he has other endorsements I believe. I don't blame the guy for wanting and getting a max deal from the Bulls but he can easily take a few million less to allow the Bulls to add a player that will help him win a championship if he requires more talent around him. It's not like anyone in his family is going to starve. Players need to realize that there is a salary cap which makes it very difficult to build a great team.

Let's say it's $4m. Would you take a 10% paycut because your employer asked you to, since they didn't want to pay your full salary anymore? I sure wouldn't.

I already said I don't blame him for wanting & getting a max deal. Just don't complain when we are at the cap at can't easily add another star player to the team. (Are there even any star players available?)

 

And you can't compare the situation to a normal workplace. We don't have salary caps, we aren't making tens of millions in salary and even more in endorsements, we don't have championships to play for which may have an effect on a star employee's legacy, and so on.

[ConstableRabbit]

How much does Rose get from the Bulls each year? $16MM? How much does he get from Adidas? $25MM? Plus he has other endorsements I believe. I don't blame the guy for wanting and getting a max deal from the Bulls but he can easily take a few million less to allow the Bulls to add a player that will help him win a championship if he requires more talent around him. It's not like anyone in his family is going to starve. Players need to realize that there is a salary cap which makes it very difficult to build a great team.

Let's say it's $4m. Would you take a 10% paycut because your employer asked you to, since they didn't want to pay your full salary anymore? I sure wouldn't.

I already said I don't blame him for wanting & getting a max deal. Just don't complain when we are at the cap at can't easily add another star player to the team. (Are there even any star players available?)

 

And you can't compare the situation to a normal workplace. We don't have salary caps, we aren't making tens of millions in salary and even more in endorsements, we don't have championships to play for which may have an effect on a star employee's legacy, and so on.

But you are blaming him. And you even threw in a silly line about his family not starving. I'm sure his goal isn't for his family to not starve -- it's for his grandkids to not have to worry about money.

 

He hasn't come out and said anything, but if I were him I'd want to be paid what I'm worth. That goes for any employee -- NBA superstar or not. That's why I used a percentage and not hard figures.

[UMFan83]

Again, I highly doubt the players association would have allowed him to decline the provision that was specifically negotiated into the new CBA to benefit players like him right after the CBA was ratified. It was one of the few concessions they were able to get from the league.

[davell]

You've got a 5 mill TPE, all of your own picks, the Charlotte pick, Butler, Mirotic, and Teague to make a deal with over the offseason. Along with one of Boozer, Deng, or Noah as a solid additional piece. When something worth getting is available, I think we're armed and ready to go get it.

[Old Style]

How much does Rose get from the Bulls each year? $16MM? How much does he get from Adidas? $25MM? Plus he has other endorsements I believe. I don't blame the guy for wanting and getting a max deal from the Bulls but he can easily take a few million less to allow the Bulls to add a player that will help him win a championship if he requires more talent around him. It's not like anyone in his family is going to starve. Players need to realize that there is a salary cap which makes it very difficult to build a great team.

Let's say it's $4m. Would you take a 10% paycut because your employer asked you to, since they didn't want to pay your full salary anymore? I sure wouldn't.

I already said I don't blame him for wanting & getting a max deal. Just don't complain when we are at the cap at can't easily add another star player to the team. (Are there even any star players available?)

 

And you can't compare the situation to a normal workplace. We don't have salary caps, we aren't making tens of millions in salary and even more in endorsements, we don't have championships to play for which may have an effect on a star employee's legacy, and so on.

But you are blaming him. And you even threw in a silly line about his family not starving. I'm sure his goal isn't for his family to not starve -- it's for his grandkids to not have to worry about money.

 

He hasn't come out and said anything, but if I were him I'd want to be paid what I'm worth. That goes for any employee -- NBA superstar or not. That's why I used a percentage and not hard figures.

I'm not blaming him at all. Reggie is whining because he wants more talent on the team. The Bulls are only a few games out of the #2 seed having played the whole season without Rose. Big bro is acting like DRose is surrounded by a bunch of crap like LeBron had in Cleveland and that we cannot win a championship with this roster so Derrick should probably sit out until we get better players. I don't agree with that. Sure I would like to add another scorer to the roster but I don't believe that this team (with a healthy Rose) has no shot at winning a title. And again the NBA has a salary cap. It's not like the Bulls can spend unlimited amounts of cash to add superstars. If DRose wants the max deal that he is entitled to and has earned, then fine. I don't begrudge him one bit. But his brother needs to shut his giant pie hole unless he has a master plan to make this team better. He can share those thoughts with GarPax.

[Rex Buckingham]

You've got a 5 mill TPE, all of your own picks, the Charlotte pick, Butler, Mirotic, and Teague to make a deal with over the offseason. Along with one of Boozer, Deng, or Noah as a solid additional piece. When something worth getting is available, I think we're armed and ready to go get it.

 

While the Charlotte pick could become valuable, there is also the chance they draft Ben McLemore or someone with an upcoming lottery pick and that pick becomes a stud... I agree that they should go ahead and use it to get an established player if one becomes available

[UMFan83]

Bulls in the first half:

 

Deng/Bellineli: 6/11

Everyone else: 4/37 (10.8%)

 

Overall the Bulls shot 10/48 (20.8%) in the first half

[Banedon]

I haven't watched much Bulls since the all star break, but it seems like the Bulls have really been struggling offensively.

[UMFan83]

Record for lowest team shooting percentage in a game is .229 from some team in the 1950s. Bulls are at .212 3 minutes into the 3rd. At 39 points tho thanks to inexplicably shooting 18 FTs so chances are they won't break their own points record of 49.

[Banedon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J5KrdAwukc&feature=youtu.be

[UMFan83]

Per Sports Whispers on Twitter (rumor)

Multiple sources have said that Derrick Rose is physically ready to return to the lineup for the Bulls

[cubbyvirus00]

Thank god for the Blackhawks.