Minor League Discussion & Boxes 6-30-12

[toonsterwu]

I post one thing, run to the store and this discussion explodes. Looks like there's nothing more I can add here, though.

 

This was really a pointless discussion, not in content, as I think there's a fair ... discussion point somewhere in there on ... statistical assessments of minor leaguers, but in that davell and I were coming at it from slightly different perspectives, as I was simply thinking on an expectations game from what most people anticipated, not what I personally anticipated and he was coming at it from a different perspective. But tis how things go and tis the fun of it all. All I had to do was leave off Torreyes, which was my original intent, and whoosh, 1 page of comments would be gone.

 

Wary of going outside ... or doing anything ... because of the killer East Coast heat today (and the next few days), and since I've been posting sporadically these days but have some free time ... OOC, Raisin, where did you have Torreyes/Hernandez in your final pre-season (or winter) lists. I believe you posted it once, but I don't recall right now.

[Hairyducked Idiot]

Why would a page of discussion being gone be a good thing?

[toonsterwu]

I'll end it by saying this: The minor league forum here absolutely kicks ass. It's gotten quite a few folks from here to follow things much closer and in years where we're awful, it's following this, that makes it much easier to take. I've learned a ton from Raisin, Toonster, and others as well. I bet Theo wishes the entire Cub fan population knew what we do and understand that we are very clearly making lots of progress.

 

I had this whole other thing typed up, before deciding against it since I don't recall what I read on SoSH. That said, Theo did interact with SoSH in the past, and I'd be intrigued if a Cubs representative interacted here (for all I know, maybe they do).

 

The funny thing was, until Raisin helped me into NSBB, I could never join. I was aIways curious why other boards bashed NSBB (I recall the few Cubs places I visited online in college would always bash NSBB). I tried for ages in college (okay, like ... a few times), but somehow I never got the email (now that I think about it, probably some college filter thing), and completely forgot about it until going over to BCB a few years ago and then talking to Raisin and O_O over there. To be honest, I really only wanted to find a forum to discuss minor leaguers.

 

I love MLB ... but following it, and reading forum posts day to day can be ... er ... tiring, particularly in bad season. Only so much repetition one can take, and I really don't think there's another Cubs forum with a dedicated minor league section that is as good as this.

 

Crap ... it's 2 pm already? I really need to get some crap done for Monday.

[toonsterwu]

Why would a page of discussion being gone be a good thing?

 

Huh? Where did I say it was a good thing? If I did, I apologize, but I'm reading my comment now and I just simply stated that if I had stated where I was coming from originally, there's a chance this discussion doesn't happen. I liked this discussion - I still disagree with you, as I think there's a point at which there's too much analysis of statistics on minor leaguers (and to be clear, I do it as well), but yeah, this is what makes forums fun.

 

Edit: Maybe you took the pointless as meaning bad. If so, sorry, I simply meant pointless as in that we were coming from different angles and didn't acknowledge it earlier.

[Guest]

I post one thing, run to the store and this discussion explodes. Looks like there's nothing more I can add here, though.

 

This was really a pointless discussion, not in content, as I think there's a fair ... discussion point somewhere in there on ... statistical assessments of minor leaguers, but in that davell and I were coming at it from slightly different perspectives, as I was simply thinking on an expectations game from what most people anticipated, not what I personally anticipated and he was coming at it from a different perspective. But tis how things go and tis the fun of it all. All I had to do was leave off Torreyes, which was my original intent, and whoosh, 1 page of comments would be gone.

 

Wary of going outside ... or doing anything ... because of the killer East Coast heat today (and the next few days), and since I've been posting sporadically these days but have some free time ... OOC, Raisin, where did you have Torreyes/Hernandez in your final pre-season (or winter) lists. I believe you posted it once, but I don't recall right now.

 

I couldn't find a list of mine online once Torreyes was in the system. I believe I had Torreyes just behind Hernandez and both in the 11-15 range last offseason.

[sneakypower]

re Torreyes and Polanco:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=60560&p=2757297#p2757297

 

his LD rate (per first inning: 11%, down from 21% in '11) has been consistently dreadful all year, and seemingly he's been as lucky in June as he was unlucky in May

 

i consider babip to be a skill for the most part, so for a career .375 guy to have a .244 season has been a big disappointment for me

[Hairyducked Idiot]

re Torreyes and Polanco:

http://www.northsidebaseball.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=60560&p=2757297#p2757297

 

his LD rate (per first inning: 11%, down from 21% in '11) has been consistently dreadful all year, and seemingly he's been as lucky in June as he was unlucky in May

 

i consider babip to be a skill for the most part, so for a career .375 guy to have a .244 season has been a big disappointment for me

 

A-ball BIP designations are about as reliable as tea leaves, imo.

[Guest]

There were reports of Torreyes making a ton of weak contact this year, so I'm more inclined to believe his LD% this year. That said, his May was sooo bad/unlucky that it's going to unduly color his season to date over less than 275 PAs.

[Little Slide Rooter]

Vitters is going to be a very interesting case to watch unfold. My guess, is Theo and Jed thought extremely little of him, when they came on board. We're going to need some guys that take more walks and get on base, at the major league level obviously. But if his pitch recognition has improved dramatically and he just puts it in play, it's not really his fault, is it? My thinking is from top to bottom in the entire organization, if you asked Theo to tell us what are the 5 best developments of the year, Vitters is one of the 5. I hope he gets a September callup and plays all month and gets the job next year. I don't really want to deal him, he's really making me rethink my opinion of his upside.

 

I'd have to think that if that were so, he wouldn't have been protected from the Rule 5. Remember, Ryan Flaherty, was looking a lot better than Vitters ever did last year, and they let him go.

[ctcf]

Vitters is going to be a very interesting case to watch unfold. My guess, is Theo and Jed thought extremely little of him, when they came on board. We're going to need some guys that take more walks and get on base, at the major league level obviously. But if his pitch recognition has improved dramatically and he just puts it in play, it's not really his fault, is it? My thinking is from top to bottom in the entire organization, if you asked Theo to tell us what are the 5 best developments of the year, Vitters is one of the 5. I hope he gets a September callup and plays all month and gets the job next year. I don't really want to deal him, he's really making me rethink my opinion of his upside.

 

I'd have to think that if that were so, he wouldn't have been protected from the Rule 5. Remember, Ryan Flaherty, was looking a lot better than Vitters ever did last year, and they let him go.

 

He did not look a lot better than Vitters ever did last year.

[Guest]

Vitters is going to be a very interesting case to watch unfold. My guess, is Theo and Jed thought extremely little of him, when they came on board. We're going to need some guys that take more walks and get on base, at the major league level obviously. But if his pitch recognition has improved dramatically and he just puts it in play, it's not really his fault, is it? My thinking is from top to bottom in the entire organization, if you asked Theo to tell us what are the 5 best developments of the year, Vitters is one of the 5. I hope he gets a September callup and plays all month and gets the job next year. I don't really want to deal him, he's really making me rethink my opinion of his upside.

 

I'd have to think that if that were so, he wouldn't have been protected from the Rule 5. Remember, Ryan Flaherty, was looking a lot better than Vitters ever did last year, and they let him go.

 

Uhh, Flaherty OPSed .676 at AAA last season as a 25-year old.

[ctcf]

Speaking of which, Vitters just hit his second 2B of the night. Sadly it was on the first pitch and doesn't count.

[ctcf]

Vitters is going to be a very interesting case to watch unfold. My guess, is Theo and Jed thought extremely little of him, when they came on board. We're going to need some guys that take more walks and get on base, at the major league level obviously. But if his pitch recognition has improved dramatically and he just puts it in play, it's not really his fault, is it? My thinking is from top to bottom in the entire organization, if you asked Theo to tell us what are the 5 best developments of the year, Vitters is one of the 5. I hope he gets a September callup and plays all month and gets the job next year. I don't really want to deal him, he's really making me rethink my opinion of his upside.

 

I'd have to think that if that were so, he wouldn't have been protected from the Rule 5. Remember, Ryan Flaherty, was looking a lot better than Vitters ever did last year, and they let him go.

 

Uhh, Flaherty OPSed .676 at AAA last season as a 25-year old.

 

And even if you add in his AA #'s that year, he's still at an .824 OPS overall (compare to Vitters' current .860).

[sneakypower]

Speaking of which, Vitters just hit his second 2B of the night. Sadly it was on the first pitch and doesn't count.

that's pretty ironic, given your frequent exaggerated hysterics and myopia over Jackson

[ctcf]

Speaking of which, Vitters just hit his second 2B of the night. Sadly it was on the first pitch and doesn't count.

that's pretty ironic, given your frequent exaggerated hysterics and myopia over Jackson

 

Woah. And speaking of exaggeration...

[sneakypower]

I can't even look at bjax's lines anymore. Kind of disgusting.

i guess '[expletive] weird' would have been a better description

[Guest]

I really don't want this kind of crap in the minor league forums.

[ctcf]

Neither do I. Wasn't aware I had upset him so much.