Star players and how they are acquired

[Tracer Bullet]

There's a method here. And I like it.

 

I don't doubt that there is a method here that will payoff in the future. I just have a problem with ignoring 2012 when it was possible to make the team competitive without ruining their chances in the future.

 

What's competitive? 80 wins? Shooting for 85 and hoping you get lucky and make the playoffs? You loved that so much with Hendry, I'm surprised to see you advocate for it now.

 

Are you kidding me with that garbage?

 

80-85 while in the process of restructuring the organization is a perfectly respectable season. My problem with Hendry is that 81 was the average over a decade.

 

80-85 three years into a rebuilding wouldn't be the least bit impressive.

 

You call my post garbage and end yours when a sentence that is of no value whatsoever? My word. No one is arguing that jersey and you know it.

 

80-85 wins and not fielding a team with a good chance at winning deep in the playoffs is of no value when you could win fewer games and acquire assets for later years when the chances of being very good are higher.

 

The cubs weren't going to be good on 2012. Why does it matter how not good?

[Tracer Bullet]

There's a method here. And I like it.

 

I don't doubt that there is a method here that will payoff in the future. I just have a problem with ignoring 2012 when it was possible to make the team competitive without ruining their chances in the future.

 

I take some issue with the implication that 2012 has been "ignored". Just because the team didn't land guys (to this point) doesn't mean they weren't in to some degree. If they offered Pujols a shorter, smarter deal, that is an attempt. The fact that the Angels and Marlins pushed the price into the stupid range doesn't mean Theo and Jed ignored him.

 

Same with Darvish. Texas blew the other bids (including that of the "favorite" Jays) out of the water, by most accounts. Does that mean Jed and Theo didn't even try?

 

And how do we know the price for Headley wasn't unreasonable? And Aramis is the one who declined his part. Should they have given him 3 years just to salvage 2012?

 

And Fielder and the Cubans are still out there, still more dominoes to fall. It's fairly obvious at this point that 2012 is likely to be an ugly rebuilding year, but I don't think for a second the FO simply said "[expletive] 2012, we're blowing this thing up."

 

Being measured =/= ignoring.

 

Nuts - this would be a good post to quote with a ridiculous yup.

[Sammy Sofa]

Noooooooooooooooooope.

 

I don't want measured. I want the Cubs to be the big swinging dicks of the Midwest.

[treebird]

Noooooooooooooooooope.

 

I don't want measured. I want the Cubs to be the big swinging dicks of the Midwest.

 

yuuuuuuuuuuuuup

[Tracer Bullet]

And I want a billion dollars.

[jersey cubs fan]

You call my post garbage and end yours when a sentence that is of no value whatsoever? My word. No one is arguing that jersey and you know it.

 

80-85 wins and not fielding a team with a good chance at winning deep in the playoffs is of no value when you could win fewer games and acquire assets for later years when the chances of being very good are higher.

 

The cubs weren't going to be good on 2012. Why does it matter how not good?

 

He can make as many marginal upgrade trades as he damn well pleases, I don't give a crap about that. I want a freaking free agent or three to actually have an impact on their chances in 2012. It costs nothing but money and does nothing to damage their ability to contend in 2014 and beyond.

[pccubfan]

There's a method here. And I like it.

 

I don't doubt that there is a method here that will payoff in the future. I just have a problem with ignoring 2012 when it was possible to make the team competitive without ruining their chances in the future.

 

What's competitive? 80 wins? Shooting for 85 and hoping you get lucky and make the playoffs? You loved that so much with Hendry, I'm surprised to see you advocate for it now.

 

There is nothing wrong with that when it is used as a stepping stone. It becomes a problem when year after year you hope things go your way to accomplish this.

 

There is something wrong with it when not trading assets that have no value after 2012 hurts the team in later years. Keeping mediocre players to hope for 85 wins in 2012 makes no sense when those players can't help the team in 2013 when there's a better chance at winning.

 

Who are you specifically talking about? Zambrano, Marshall someone else? I can't speak for jersey, but I don't have a real problem with either of those trades. Neither one would prevent the Cubs from being competitive in 2012 if they make other moves that can help in 2012 and the future.

[jersey cubs fan]

And I want a billion dollars.

 

Some of us are talking about realistic things.

[Tracer Bullet]

Maybe we should go back to TT's first post and remind ourselves that very few stars are signed as FAs and many (most?) big FA signings turn out poorly.

[Tracer Bullet]

And I want a billion dollars.

 

Some of us are talking about realistic things.

 

Like being big swinging dicks?

[Sammy Sofa]

Noooooooooooooooooope.

 

I don't want measured. I want the Cubs to be the big swinging dicks of the Midwest.

 

yuuuuuuuuuuuuup

 

I look it at this way: remember those video clips of Theo discussing J.D. Drew that we were all drooling over? That's the kind of complimentary signing I want to enjoy in the wake of the Cubs being monsters and crushing everything in their path a la the Red Sox or the Yankees. What's happening so far is that type of signing is apparently the focus for the Cubs instead of being complimentary. I DON'T WANT THAT. It's early, so I'm still hopeful things change, but measured, complimentary deals seemingly being the main direction of the team for the time being is depressing and will take foreverrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

[jersey cubs fan]

And I want a billion dollars.

 

Some of us are talking about realistic things.

 

Like being big swinging dicks?

 

Yeah, being the biggest market team in the division is really difficult for the Cubs to pull off.

[Sammy Sofa]

And I want a billion dollars.

 

Some of us are talking about realistic things.

 

Like being big swinging dicks?

 

Wanting the Cubs to at least be the Red Sox/Yankees of the NL Central is pretty [expletive] realistic.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Sammy Sofa

[jersey cubs fan]

Maybe we should go back to TT's first post and remind ourselves that very few stars are signed as FAs and many (most?) big FA signings turn out poorly.

 

His post didn't do that.

[Tracer Bullet]

Maybe we should go back to TT's first post and remind ourselves that very few stars are signed as FAs and many (most?) big FA signings turn out poorly.

 

To clarify, I'm not against signing any FAs. I'm against the notion that the only way or even the best way to fix this team is to spend tons on FA. Even the Yankees (the big swinging dicks on the NE) have more regrettable contracts than good ones.

[Tracer Bullet]

My lord. You guys are so impatient that if the cubs don't sign every FA you want, you're just going to have little tantrums.

 

It's pretty clear that most of the star players aren't signed as FAs. Refusing to accept that and demanding that the cubs sign guys on the tail end or beyond their prime is just going to give you something else to hitch about in 3 years.

[jersey cubs fan]

Maybe we should go back to TT's first post and remind ourselves that very few stars are signed as FAs and many (most?) big FA signings turn out poorly.

 

To clarify, I'm not against signing any FAs. I'm against the notion that the only way or even the best way to fix this team is to spend tons on FA. Even the Yankees (the big swinging dicks on the NE) have more regrettable contracts than good ones.

 

WELL THEN WHY DON'T YOU BOTHER READING WHAT PEOPLE ARE WRITING?

 

The future will be handled primarily via trades and development from within. Right now, the only way to help 2012, and to some degree 2013, is via free agency. The Cubs have money and their have been players available at positions where they have needs.

 

Nobody is saying sign free agents and then all our problems will be solved. Nobody is saying the only way to fix this organization is by signing free agents this offseason. Nobody is saying the best way to fix this organization is by spending tons on free agents.

 

I am saying the only way to make a significant improvement in 2012 without damaging the future is via free agency.

[Guest]

And I want a billion dollars.

 

Some of us are talking about realistic things.

 

Like being big swinging dicks?

 

Yeah, being the biggest market team in the division is really difficult for the Cubs to pull off.

 

Yea, but what about big swinging dicks?

[jersey cubs fan]

My lord. You guys are so impatient that if the cubs don't sign every FA you want, you're just going to have little tantrums.

 

You are a horrible reader.

[Sammy Sofa]

Maybe we should go back to TT's first post and remind ourselves that very few stars are signed as FAs and many (most?) big FA signings turn out poorly.

 

To clarify, I'm not against signing any FAs. I'm against the notion that the only way or even the best way to fix this team is to spend tons on FA. Even the Yankees (the big swinging dicks on the NE) have more regrettable contracts than good ones.

 

I don't think anyone here is saying it's the only or best way to fix the team. It's a way to help fix a team or strengthen it, and as it stands right now the Cubs seem to be shying completely away from it. Shutting out a significant tool to help build and better your team isn't fun and doesn't seem very smart.

 

And why does it matter if the Yankees are overpaying? I'd love for the Cubs to be in that type of position where it doesn't matter. It sucks that they aren't.

[Sammy Sofa]

You guys are too intimidated by big, swinging dicks. We need to embrace the big, swinging dicks.

[Tracer Bullet]

My lord. You guys are so impatient that if the cubs don't sign every FA you want, you're just going to have little tantrums.

 

You are a horrible reader.

 

Actually I'm a great reader. And based on your performance in this thread, you're the last person who should be judging such things.

[jersey cubs fan]

You guys are too intimidated by big, swinging dicks. We need to embrace the big, swinging dicks.

 

Just wrap our hands around them and squeeze.

[jersey cubs fan]

My lord. You guys are so impatient that if the cubs don't sign every FA you want, you're just going to have little tantrums.

 

You are a horrible reader.

 

Actually I'm a great reader. And based on your performance in this thread, you're the last person who should be judging such things.

 

I'm sure you're an excellent driver as well.

[XZero771679666304]

Noooooooooooooooooope.

 

I don't want measured. I want the Cubs to be the big swinging dicks of the Midwest.

 

 

Measure now doesn't mean measured later. Pick your battles.

 

The Cubs have money, but simply spending like crazy just to make it rain (see a declining, 32 year old Albert @ 10/265) is just idiotic.

 

Now if someone else nabs Prince for less than 8-10 years, I'll start to wonder what people are thinking.